Ulcer in antrum and duodenal & esophagitis

Thanks Dixieb! 

Hi,

The doc said he wants my body to heal naturally even though I know SE and DGL are harmless and the body does not get dependent on them like PPI. Yes, I had multiple biopsy to rule out zollinger-syndrome, h pylori, cancer during my first endoscopy. I rarely ever taken any NSAID so idk how this occured. I believe it can be bad living habits such as eating bad food, drinking insane amount of alcohol in college as every other college kid, etc etc but knows. As far as the autoimmune diseases go I dont have any (get regular blood tests every year), maybe crohn's disease is the only one that I can think of that can cause ulcers?

sorry Vergil, "wants my body to heal naturally" and prescribes PPI's...the two don't match. When you have an insult to your body, it needs to be removed...just like a simple wood splinter...inflammation responds...anti inflammation only starts when the splinter is removed along with any toxin.

If, your ulcers were caused by diet and drink, the insult has been removed...why hasn't phase two...anti inflammatory response taken place? Even after 3 months of treatments? And your good protocol of diet and drink?

The cause of an autoimmune condition is "unknown"...we do know there are two phases...M1 is the inflammatory immune response..M2 is the anti inflammatory response...when inflammation continues...It's "suspected" M1 is stuck in this phase..thus a corticosteriod is often presecribed...an anti inflammatory..a substitute for M2.

You have 4 cases of errosive gastritis (inflammed stomach lining with ulcers).resolved with prednisolone within 2 weeks at St. Mathewes Hosptial when all other medical treatments failed. I don't suggest your conditon is an autoimmune condition...

 

Hi,

I had a follow up like two weeks ago thats when I started the PPI tapper maybe I wasn't clear. Also there is improvement, lots of improvement I was saying sometimes I still get burning sensation it is not as frequent as it used to be and is not as strong either it's very mild. My issue is why isn't it completely gone after 3 months when most ulcers heal after 8 to 12 weeks.

Healing naturally takes time and takes care...improvements are extremely important...for asimple "tips"...occasional burnings "could be" an open ulcer yet....try a bismuth tablet...a lozenge...during or when you experience this sensation. Its what was originally used to heal peptic ulcer caused by HPylori...the normal stomach PH is 1.2PH...the stomach lining is protected from this very lowPH by mucus or mucins...when there is inflammation/ulerations. the low gastric acids can "irritate"...your suggested use of dgl and or slippery elm was exactly what protects the ulcer/lining from low acids...but when your on 40 mg of PPI's...raises the PH to 3 to 4PH...gastric acids should not be as irritative. I would prefer you use either dgl or slippery elm.

Nick does not use the same weening process...uses 20 mg daily then every other day using bismuth between...and usually terminates everything within a few weeks....fermentable foods if tolerable helps too. uses dgi or slippery elm ..either pre or post meals. These are merely "bridges" to natural healings...personally I like to hear doctors talking about "natural".most do not consider this in their vocabularly....and, once your condition is 100%, take baby steps back to a good normal diet without reaching for alcohol even when tempted for a good deal of time...the last thing you want is a replay....Ann

You are assuming that the burning is caused by the ulcers. The ulcers could have healed and the burning could be good old fashioned reflux or just that you ate or drank something that day which triggered it off. The endscopy will confirm if you have healed and the burning is something else.

I take a 30mg PPI, have done for almost 10yrs now and even I get days when the pain appears, usually its my fault. Its interesting that the dr wants you off the PPI, mine is the opposite and for me they are a life changer so I won't be giving them up anytime soon, as they elimintae the pain I suffered daily.

Thats good hear wknight. That's better than something drastic like surgery, glad you are doing good. 

Thanks ann. I will look into bismuth and run it passed my doctor, appreciate the input. I quit alcohol for life btw .

How long do you think its safe to take bismuth please? What do you two think about Zinc carsonine for ulcers? Thanks.

Hi Rex,

got up late this am 5 30 usually today 6 30am..tons of e mails requiring replies...re Bismuth..lozenge vs liquid...the lozenge formulation in the us (produced in Mexico) is 262 mg of B S. I am for weening every supplement. Don Claudio used 262 mg for a year...for a Hiatal Hernia...not for ulcerations. For Gastritis w/o ulcers we used 1/2 of a tab (131mg) pre 3 meals) and 262mg pre bedtime...a daily max total of 655 mg. If more than 3 meals then we reduced the lozenge to 1/4...our thought was to keep the mg below 600mg intake daily but we did exceed it by 55mg without any adverse effects. For HelicoPylori along with 2 antibiotics and 20mg of PPI x 2 we used 262 x 3  (2 x with antibiotics and 1 pre bedtime). we have not used bismuth for errosive gastritis (stomach ulcers) but the science liturature shows efficacy when in combination with medications. Duration varies based on dosage...a complex variation...toxic effects  long term has only been studied with meese...and not to be confused with the toxic outbreak in France as this was a different bismuth compound. My take would be to use no more than 600 mg not to exceed 10 days unless 1, adverse side effects or 2, major improvement..then ween over a 2 week period.

(these are "guess estimates...there are no in vivo studies")

Zinc C...excellent mucosal damage "preventive" and healing qualities in the small bowell. May be benefical with ulcers but I cannot find a study. I would "think" much would depend on "cause" of the ulcers...bacteria, trauma, NSAID's, Alcohol etc....even what's called autoimmune where only corticosteriods resolved the ulcers.

In summary, both are good supplements...and should be weened like initially stated...we all differ widely...being cautious even when there is adequate evidence of benefit of a product is best.