Any News On Desarda Inguinal Hernia Repair?

It is a bit of a leap straight to conspiracy theory, Judith. I simply stated the facts.  There could be many explanations. 

I doubt the surgeons of Australia or the Health Bureaucrats would deliberately conspire against the Desarda technique.

But I am sure they will deliberately 'conspire' to preserve the status quo.   This kind of unofficial 'conspiracy' is almost axiomatic in any organisation.

The surgical world of Australia has in recent times been loudly criticised for 'conspiracy' against the females in their ranks.  That is a demonstration of their human weakness and susceptibility to actions less than optimum.

And so on.  The point being to take a serious view of a question instead of leaping to condemnation of the other party as a 'conspiracy theorist' which is the fashion of the moment in many, many fields. 

No one said Desarda was 'so wonderful' - that is another instance of abscribing falsely. 

Desarda is what it is and has the record it has.  In the world it is quite widely used most especially in those places that cannot afford our fancy machines. 

The record and the studies show that it compares more than merely favourably and that's a simple fact.

Hence it deserves a commensurate place in the armoury of tools - a proportionate place - but it has none such.  Instead it is ignored as though it doesn't exist.

My own experience was that group of surgeons claiming to be very good in their field (hernia surgery etc.) claimed to me, face to face, to have no knowledge whatsoever - none, none at all - of the  Desarda technique and told me face to face again, that they did not wish to have any!

Did not wish to have any!

Would not look at a web link!  Would not research it!  Would not be enlightened!

And you say you doubt they'd conspire!   That in itself was a conspiracy to willful ignorance.  And I know it to be true.

And it went all the way to the Royal Australian College of Surgeons or whatever they're called because I contacted them and got the same response.

I will not engage in a debate about this. You've just awakened some of the ire I felt back then.  I'll deliver myself of this and then fall silent.

It is a fact.  They demonstrated a conspiracy to preserve the status quo and avoid knowledge.  True. Indisputable.  All the way to the Minister.  I have the records of the communications.

Yes. 

"Meshes" are not working any better - it may be a combination of things, however, the material, for one, is polypropylene - biofilm grows on it.  Secondly, that nerves get entangled in the mesh, which then shrinks - causing excrutiating pain.

Unless we are the patients doctor and are familiar with their medical reports, we only need to help and encourage.  

Thanks for that. Interesting.  You can't quote the study perhaps?

After Judith's second post I decided to go back to researching the matter as I did back two or three years ago. Get some up to date information.

But that's a slow process and I don't have much free time - or rather I choose to spend it in other directions.. 

But it is very apparent to me as a layman taking a cursory look at the field is littered with over simplifications. 

Every patient is different and disregard the minor differences you're still left with enough significant differences:  age, weight, musculature, genealogy.

And every doctor, every hospital.  Many different kinds of mesh.  Many different kinds of post-operative lifestyles.

This makes comparing like with like very hard.  We can see that without being medical experts and before we get anywhere near the studies.

Then we find nearly every study is different.  From casual gathering of anecdotal evidence to rigorous double blind studies.

It looks to me like the whole thing boils down to individual cases really, there being no overall 'better' or 'best'.

But some aspects seem generally true.  Like if we argued about which was the best rope to hang over a cliff from we might argue endlessly about the merits of this fibre or that, natural or artificial, about  cable lays and such but all such debates would be very secondary to consideration of the height of the cliff, wouldn't they?

The higher the cliff the more critical the reliability of the rope for failure means death.

Well I think something similar pertains to this discussion.  There's a 'cliff' called mesh complications which can be quite horrifying.

 I find that very offputting.

Situation gets confused by overshadowing facts such as the 'cliff' that exists whatever you do as regards infection - daily getting to be a more and more dangerous thing as the efficacy of our antibiotics diminishes because of the farmer's desire to maximise profits by feeding unnecessary human antibiotics into his stock as a prophylactic measure - and by hospitals commensurately becoming daily more dangerous as they harbour more and more pathogens.

But this overshadowing I think should be separated out and not allowed to confuse.  It is a bit like telling the cliff hanger not to worry about what rope he uses for he's liable to get attacked by a sea bird or develop a case of the cramps or something.

Don't worry about this risk because there are other risks.

But I've started on the path of discussing the whole thing... not what I meant to do.  I simply meant to say I will research it again

Sorry for all the words.     (Can't bear to delete them though)

My sister finally had her mesh removed last year after over year of excruciating pain.  After a week, the pain was back - now, we're looking at biofilm at the mesh site that could very well be the issue (infection).  Antibiotics do not work for biofilm.  All in all, the overall answer is to not permit mesh to be used in hernia repair - period.

I feel it may be possible but I've got no evidence of any sort.  The one person I've found claiming to have done so I view with much suspicion.

But I have this great belief in the body.

But I can't understand what's going on really to get some idea of how/where the self healing might work.

Like apparently there's a lot of slack develops in that part of the membrane.  Why it suddenly gets weak I don't know. But I believe it is a given that cells respond to stress and strain by toughening up. You'd expect this area to toughen up at the least and ideally to fight back and contract down, get smaller, get rid of all the slack.

Doesn't seem to happen. 

And it is uncertain how we might help.  It is not a muscle. The membrane gives way and the contents beneath push up between the muscles.  A kind of structural weak spot in the design of the human beings.

Trying to cure it by strengthening muscles seems to be aiming in the wrong direction. 

The membrane is one large organ. One continuous thing.  Why would it weaken in just this place?  They never discuss that. I don't think they know.  Or care.

Collagen is important but taking extra collagen isn't really going to do any good, I think - because the whole body uses collagen. It is the most ubiquitous and plentiful molecule.

So the only things I can think of to do are diminish the weight - I am overweight for sure - and diminish the eating, which is part of the above.

Less abdominal weight might help.

And less eating - longer time between meals - allows the intestine to empty somewhat and then, perhaps ( if only !) the membrane will begin to shrink down.

And stretching.  Ah. What about stretching?  Very amazing thing  Have you ever stretched much?  Felt strange things?  A good stretch can be felt in quite surprising places in the body.  I fantasize (or theorise would be a nicer way to put it) that a stretch actually stresses the membranes and may help to cause them to respond by looking alive and shortening, squashing  up, getting thicker, tougher, who knows what but maybe something good...

And the right kind of exercise. Difficult to see what that might be but I have opted for bicycle riding.  It exercises all the muscles in that area without seeming to cause the stress that a sneeze, for instance, or even forceable micturition can cause.

And try and be happy.

So, yes, I believe it can be possible but I don't know how and don't even have any good leads.

My own way is to eat less, lose weight, exercise on a bike and be happy.  

And keep an eye out for developments from time to time.  Which I'm just about to embark upon again.  Another 'research the web' project.

I wish I had something better to say.....

:-)

egistered solely to make a comment on your above comment. I fully agree. I could not find any surgeon in Australia to do anything but the mesh and then pretended ignorance on the other techniques.I believe its the Mesh companies buying the surgeons and because its an Island make it very hard for patients to do anything else. Our way or the Highway, any surgeon choosing a different.technique may be ostracized. My dozens of telephone calls points to that conclusion. Mesh is more expensive so keep the cost up.

Conclusion: ALL Australians Surgeons not doing the right thing for Inguinal Hernia Patients.

PS:Still have an Inguinal hernia 4 years and seeking a repair. Tried all the natural healing methods with no success. But still haven'i  given up but how long can you wait while your life passes away.

I am very interested in the desarda technique and have spoken to 4 of their surgeons and met 1 face to face.

Fell free to communicate with me directly.

LiammaiL

Hi...

I'm now on the waiting list for a mesh repair in an Adelaide hospital.

Signed up for this because the thing is beginning to get worse, finally - giving different variieties of pains from time to time.

And perhaps getting a little larger.

All the things I've tried to improve it just haven't worked.

This surgeon tell me he has had this operation performed on himself. With mesh.

He says mesh is much improved, etc...  

The biggest single thing he said to persuade me to change my mind was that it is difficult to replicate Desarda's results.

And that seems true alright.

In the years that I have been following this I'd expect the Desarda technique to attract more and more followers and rise to more and more studies, etc. - but in fact there's effectively merely silence, nothing happening...

He claims the same recurrence rate,  the same 'trouble free' rate.

For all that I'm persuaded by his statements - more I'm consoled or mollified or something...   Mainly I'm without other recourse and feel I should get something done now.

My skin is getting very delicate I notice.  If I bump almost anything that even looks like an edge my skin can tear and I'll bleed.

If my inner membranes are like that, too, I shudder to think how on earth a surgeon is going to fasten them together....

If anyone is going to cut and sew me I'm thinking the sooner it is done the better before my aged tissues get even more fragile.

So I'm going to do it, just waiting to hear from him.

In all the time, for instance, this post, this thread, has been here I've never had any private contact with information about Desarda - availability,  encouraging studies,  spread of the use, anything....

And you can all see there's been no postings here.

so that's what's going on with me.... 

Good afternoon,

I have a left inguinal hernia. I am scheduled to have surgery using the Desarda technique in about three weeks at the Desarda Hernia Center in the USA in Ft. Myers, Florida. There are a few doctors in the United States that do a no-mesh hernia repair. When the mesh works, it works. But when it doesn't, it's bad news. There are many complications associated with mesh repair: chronic pain, infection, etc, with 20% of patients. 5% of patients have life altering pain with severe complications. 

The reason mesh is claimed to be the gold standard is because that is what is taught in medical schools and that is what the pharmaceutical companies pedal. Reoccurrence is lower with the mesh, but complications are greater and more sever with mesh. Shouldn't the goal be no chronic to life altering problems than reoccurrence?

Look at the massive recall of mesh in the United States. Also, did you know the mesh is supposed to be a permanent implant. Ask your surgeon about having the mesh removed if there are complications. They will look at you like you are crazy because many surgeons, not all surgeons, do not know how to remove the mesh with confidence. And most times all of the mesh cannot be removed if there is an infection of the mesh.

If the Desarda repair was so inferior, there would be lots of complaints and the procedure would be banned. If the repair doesn't work, I can always have the mesh later. So, why not try having the repair done naturally first. It's your body. It's your health.

Im am planning  to go to Auckland where Dr.Gearld Young has performed 150 Desarda operations in the passed 18 months with no reoccuence according to him.

Whats you view on the Desarda repair with Non absorbable sutures.?

Regards Liammail

It's not the reoccurance that you need to be leary of!  The 5% reported that have life-altering pain is actually quite a bit higher than that.  My sister had it done, pain until removal 1 year ago and, since then has been in even more pain, intolerable pain.  She's up to maximum in narcotic painkiller, has had every test imaginable and still no relief.  The only solution is NOT to let the surgeon use mesh!!  There are surgeons who still, or have learned to, sew rather than use mesh...  Please, seek one out!

I think you are giving a disservice to Liammail.  Our doctors know far more than we do and there is virtually no collusion.  The legal industry won't let this happen.  Yes, stuff does and can happen with any surgery of any kind.  With my first incisional hernia my doctor said that my muscles were strong so he sewed them up.  That failed in a couple of short months.  I had an 8cm hole in my abdominal wall.  I had to have mesh.  Recovery was hard and slow, but a year later, my mesh is fine.  My doctor brought in a specialist for the last surgery and it was determined by the professionals that this was the proper action to take.  

No one here has the ability to advise anyone here not knowing the patient.  Each one of us needs to listen to our educated doctors or move to another doctor who knows our background and has our test results.

This is no disservice - it's a warning!  Do your homework - look at the issues with the use of mesh in hernia repair - there is a lot of reading material...  the reoccurrance is a little higher (very little), however, there is no chance of mesh causing you a lifetime of pain.   I am not advising, I am warning and for the use of mesh, I don't need to know the patient - it's about a product being used in surgery.  Please research!!

By what I have read on the Desarda repair, it's complicated but has a good success rate - the most important thing is that no mesh is being used...  good luck

Hi i was just reading your post from a couple years ago and was wondering how your no mesh hernia repair went and how its going? I have a small direct femoral hernia and i am getting it repaired with no mesh in a couple of months from a general surgeon in my area.