Had Greenlight surgery 5 weeks ago. Very good for a while, now relapsing to original condition.Anyon

Thanks, Glen. I'm not sure that my doc would be OK with a self cath - if the tissues have not fully recovered, sticking something in there might be risky. In addition I still have an infection, and I'm not clear what part that is playing in the problem and what effect, if any, cathing might have. Retention: I know about how much I normally void - tomorrow I'm going to count every single cc over the 15+ voids I expect and see what it all amounts to.*Two days ago had a sonogram; showed 290 cc before void and 85 after. That seemed kind of OK, but not sustainable. I live on the Big Island Hawaii and have to fly to Oahu for treatment - tho a hospital here could put in a Foley. I'd hoped to have seen the last of that. I'm going to resume Flomax and heavy hydration.

I suspect my GL procedure 6 months ago is the reason for my  high level incontinence still today.

Why do you think that?

On my first visit after GL, my doctor came in and remarked that he thought the GL might had been too powerful for me, and that he had thought about saying "no" to my request to use GL for the procedure, rather than traditional cutting to open a channel through the median lobe.  (I told him that I would have been OK with "no."   Later, I asked it there had been any injury to the external and bladder mouth sphincters, and he said there hadn't.

 

Problem identified: prostate swollen by infection. Back to self-cath until swelling has subsided. Feeling positive again.

Thanks

Well, feeling negative again! Half-way through a 10 day course of levofloxacin (a very scary med, I've learned - and I am prone to tendon problems) - results so far good in regard to urgency problems, cathing almost nothing during the day and before bed, but then 300-400 cc in morning - even after two voidings (150-200 cc total). Cathing very painful. Some clots, which in my imagination are perhaps scabs being worn off, as my systerm clearly isn't as fond of cathing as it used to be. Temporary pain level 9.

Assuming that the UTI is swelling something in there - what happens to a UTI that can't be killed? Apparently, even series of PVPs and Turps do not always fix the problem. I guess in that case you live with cathing? I'm trying to run this out, to prepare for my urinary future. Even though I can sleep through, perhaps I need to be getting up once or twice in the night to void if I can. Actually, this sounds a lot like most older men (I'm 70). I'll stop with that happy thought. Thanks for all the suggestions, empathy - keep the coming. John

 

Hi Dennis,

 Why does it keep recurring? What do the Uro say?

For some, the prostate, keeps on growing. I am one of the unfortunate ones. 

Sorry for  your problem.  I must be one of the lucky ones.  I had a urolift done april 2015 Had 4 implants.  My prostate got smaller.  Had to have the implants tighting My urologist things it was the cispro 1000g for a month Had a prostate infection cause by one of the implant getting loose Take care  Ken

Nice to hear it's working for you!  Take care.

You will think that when you have something done it's suppose to help you not keep on having procedures years after years.   I am sorry for you.  I will put you on my prayer list...Things have to change  Ken 

I hope so.  Thanks for praying for me.  I really appreciate it.

Dennis - I see my surgeon tomorrow.

About a week ago, the regular voiding (that had worked somewhat) got plugged - had 800 taken out. Kept self-cathing w.a lot of pain. Had my 3rd foley put in, and within 3 days it got plugged again - blood clot - so my doctor pulled it. My decision. Stream good for one day;  then the same old story. I drank tons of water today to see if my bladder/pvp'd prostate could handle it. The answer seems to be no; slipping back in retention again. Yet I've heard very little about turp success - is there significant success and it just doesn't get written about?

I think my uro tomorrow might put my fourth foley in. I don't know whether to go for a turp, or give up and just self-cath - though it is painful (no infection tho). I wish you well.

What do you mean when you say painful?  Do you mean, you are doing something to cause the pain, or is it a blockage that is giving you resistance and that forcing the catheter through the prostate, is giving you pain?  When I self-cath, I go really slow.  As soon as I feel any kind of discomfort, I stop and proceed slowly.  I think it was yesterday, when I was in a bit of a rush, and so I tried to speed up the self-cathing, just a little.  Just a little, was not a good idea.  I started to bleed, a little.  It didn't last long, but I've never bled previous to this.  For me, going very slow, is the best for a painless, self-cathing.  It is also my belief, that we have cell and muscle memory, and that if we irritate the prostate too much, it will not let the catheter, in with ease.  It will remember the irritation the catheter causes, and will in turn be difficult for letting the catheter, pass through the prostate.  I'm not saying that is has a mind of its own, I'm just saying that it will respond accordingly. 

Dennis - The principal pain is when, I believe, the catheter passes through the prostate. I tend to go quickly - so if more self-cath is in my future, I'll proceed more slowly. *I had no cathing pain before Greenlight.

I intentionaly drank a lot of water today - to see if there were any clear signs of recovery (stronger bladder, etc) Did not work out very well. Voided many times, reached the dribbling phase and finally, because it was so uncomfortable, I cathed out over 1000 cc. I'm afraid the bladder might be stretched significantly.

I'm nearly 70 - your age, if you don't mind?

I think your muscle memory idea may be true. Anyway, thanks for your response, and I'll have more to say after tomorrow.

Thanks for your interest.

John,

After my Green Laser surgery in March, I had lots of pain, an acute retention event, Foley put back in.  About six/seven weeks after GL TURP, the doctor did a cystoscopy again, and found a lot of hanging debris and necrosis, so he did a second procedure called Gyrus TURP that uses a cauterizaing loop to cut and release the hanging debris.  I turned to watch the cystoscopy, and it looked like the camera was going though a mass of tree roots.  He also cut out a piece of prostate that looked like a white bump in the bottom of the channel he had cut through the median lobe. (He gave me four color photos taken during the Gyrus TURP.)

.  I wonder if you have something similar going on that's causing your blockage.  In my case, the second procedure (Gyrus TURP) got rid of the swelling, but I'm still highly incontinent, staying wet 24 hours per day.

I've come to think the GL TURP procedure is a risky one.  I will keep you in my thoughts and say a prayer for you.

John,  I'm right behind you, 68 this year!  Time,is flying by, and it's great to be alive, but it would be even better, if we all had normal prostates and bladders.  I remember when I was around 18 years old, I was teaching my friend how to drive. I was standing in the front of the car, and was guiding my friend towards me. She did not step on the brakes, and the car kept on going till it pinned me against the garage wall and the car's bumper.  I went to the doctor, to have a check-up, because my mid-section was hurting so bad.  I keep wondering if my bladder, was injured at that time, and now I'm paying for it?  Take care, and I hope we all will improve our flow!

I just realized that there is the capability to upload images and thought I'd try it.  Here's an image in my prostate after the Green Laser and during the followup Gyrus TURP.  The bright loop is the cutting element that heats/cuts and cauterizes.

And since that works (click/double click on image), here are pictures at the end of the Gyrus procedure.  Note the lump of white prostate that was missed during GL and removed here.

Back from visit w. my urologist. He now believes that the problem is a lazy if not "dying" bladder, and is scheduling an exam with someone who can determine that. Apparently the science is relatively new, and the list of treatments brief. This means another flight to Honolulu. It's possible that I'm facing many (I hope!) years of self-cathing. It's not the worst thing in the world.

It's really bad when you have one procedure and it does not work and you end up having another  That's the pit's   Ken

Yes I did see it but they really do a number on the prostate  I feel sorry for you buddy  Ken

John,  your uro is located in Honolulu?  That's the island that I live on.  Who is your uro?  

Big Island. That's crazy.

Jason Smotherman, Aloha Urology - Queens

So you live on the Big Island?  What part?  My wife, and I live in Kaneohe.  Been really wet for the last few months!  My mom's family comes  from Kapaau.  Kohala, really beautiful place as you may know.

I live in Waimea. Yeah, Kohala is nice too.

Interesting development: My bladder is teasing me w. normal behavior. Total cath yesterday, 100cc. Today, 200.

Too tired to write more now. Will later.

Thanks for writing

Waimea, so cool!  Feels like airconditioning.  My mom, used to tell me when she was a kid growin up in Kohala, that they could tell the kids that were from Waimea, because at school, they were the ones with the rosey cheeks.  Between cathing, this morning, it was a pretty good stream, going natural.  This is day, 27 of self-cathing.  It could be that I did doxazosin, 1/2 dose yesterday and the day before. I've been trying to stop taking my medication, but I am pretty sure it helps me with my flow. 

I think Flomax is helping.

Has anyone experienced this:

Eight days ago my uro gave a kind of requiem for my bladder. Only bad news; a dying bladder. Yet: the very next day, voiding increased in volume and intensity. Over the next three days, total daily cath amounts went down from 100, to 50, to trace. Nothing. I've stopped cathing altogether, strong stream. It hasn't felt this good in three years. A bit of urgency to be watched out for, but suddenly I'm living a normal urological life. I'm very happy though confused about what has happened.

 

John Don't let him talk you into anything.  Your doing good so leave it alone  Ken

Thanks Ken. That's what I'm going to do. Nothing.

Is it possible you were taking decongestants or antihistamines? I have experienced myself they aggravate the prostate. Also, someone else on this forum experienced that.

What is requiem?

I did it once, and had to go to the emergency room, because I couldn't urinate.  I never did it again!  I think it was 

Sudafed?

John,good for you!  I hope to get that way with my self-cathing too.  It feels great to have an empty bladder, even if I have to self-cath. I notice that I have been improving in urinating, without the catheter as well.  it keeps getting better almost daily!

A "requiem" is a musical composition intended for funerals.  The original post referred to a "dead or dying bladder" so that's the connection.

Let me recommend a beautiful requiem.  Go to youtube, and google [requiem for the living bel canto].   I heard a performance of this live and it was wonderful, something to calm our bladder and prostate woes.

Hi John,

Sorry I got to this late. But "yes" I experienced something similar. My doc also gave me a requiem for my bladder. Told me I would never be able to empty it again without an operation (He did TURP) or without self cathing. Fast forward a few years later and I'm emptying just fine. I never had an operation so I owe my bladder rehabilitation to self cathing which I only have to do every once in awhile. Sometimes better to listen to your logic, instinct and body as opposed to your urologist. They all tend to come to the same conclusion and that is you need an operation!

Jim