PMR, Prednisone

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Not exactly sure how to phrase this question. Diagnosed 23 months ago with PMR...have been on 7-1/2m prednisone for 3-1/2 weeks, following Eileen's slow method. Have noticed two periods of overall improvement in regards to pain & fatigue....once last September and again mid-January. Does this mean I am "getting better" and I will be better able to reduce the prednisone.  Do you gradually start to feel better as you reduce? Would a possible flare be from prednisone withdrawal, or the PMR? Thank you.

 

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  • Posted

    As long as you are taking enough pred, the symptoms should be managed. But that is all that is happening - the underlying disease is still there, active in the background. It isn't altered at all by the pred.

    I think - though there is no proof I can find, I doubt it has been studied and I can't think of any way you could measure it - that the autoimmune part of the disease varies over time. A bit like the temperature graphs you see on weather forecasts. During the night the temperature falls and then rises again the next day, falls again overnight, rises again. But often not down or up to the same level as in the day or week before. In a similar way, the activity of the autoimmune response that makes the immune system attack your body by mistake changes, not necessarily from day to day but over time. When it is relatively inactive you feel better, you are able to do a bit more and you are able to get a little bit fitter - and that also has an influence on the PMR. Exercise can have a general antiinflammatory effect - just if you do too much in PMR it makes your muscles hurt. 

    I suppose it depends what "am I getting better" means. In some ways yes - and when you are doing better you will be able to manage on a lower dose of pred and will be able to reduce the dose without any difficulty. But don't be misled - one lady said she got up one day and "felt different" and was able to walk and do things she hadn't been able to for a long time. She didn't really change her reduction pattern but it never had a hiccup and she stopped pred the following New Year. She was fine for several months - but slowly the stiffness and pain returned and her rheumatologist confirmed her suspicions: the PMR was back. She only started on 10mg this time, that was plenty and she is back down to 7.5mg after a couple of months. She is feeling well and says she isn't as worried about being on pred this time round. She is enjoying feeling "well", even if it is with pred.

    Yes, I think you do start to feel better at some point - maybe it is the autoimmune bit is less active so you are less tired. Weather can have a great effect - so the time of year can change how you feel. Maybe you have learnt how to manage things better and your body is thanking you.

    You are at the stage where your body has to start making cortisol, the body's natural corticosteroid, again so the slow reduction is still important - the slow approach there gives your body a chance to catch up in that respect. I got down to 4mg last early spring and was fine, tried 3.5mg and wasn't - but we were going to China for a meeting and holiday and I found I felt MUCH better at 5mg and when I tried to go back down after we came hme I got stuck again at 3.5mg. Not PMR, just fatigue, so I went back to 5mg again. I've just had an infection, it's triggered a bit of a flare. At 7mg for a few days I felt really good again, I tried 5mg last night - not sure at all, we'll see.

    So to answer your final question - it can be either: either the underlying cause becomes more active and you need a bit more pred to keep the symptoms at bay, or you reduce too much and the pred is no longer enough to manage the inflammation. 

    So keep reducing - and fingers crossed it is that the autoimmune bit is burning out!

    • Posted

      That was an explanation that I will print and keep for ref. Thank you.

      Thos is also an opportunity to ask about a similar part of the overall mystery of PMR/GCA. I am beginning my second year of PMR(?) this month. At 85 with numerous other medical issues, I am still looking into answers about the basic nature of our problem. I have extensive osteo arthritis, cervical and lumbar. I probably have it in my knees as well. Getting to the point, I can't help wondering constantly if I still have PMR for which I take my 6.5 mg pred, and from which I have perfect bloodwork results. All I have to show for the diagnosis and adherence to therapy is stiffness/pain after sitting at home or for short drive and getting up in the AM. The worst is the knees which do not like going up stairs or getting me back off the floor. That part is very intense. I am willing to accept all that at my age still playing tennis but still have doubts about PMR being in the mix. Would you not think that there are still possibilities of being on pred to fight fight PMR which has already burnt out?

      Also a comment about the underlying causes of PMR, discussed recently. Has there ever been a study of the backround of PMR patients, looking for major surgery in the say, three years prior to PMR symptoms?. The reason being, ceertain exotic things are introduced into the body during anesthesia. Also as in my case, my blood was circulated in a machine during heart bypass procedure. There are some things done at that time to insure the viability of the blood. 

      As with all our postings, just some ramblings which could stimulate new information'

    • Posted

      There are multiple possible reasons for the immune system going haywire - any form of stress being included. But as yet there isn't any single thing that could be blamed. There are lots of people who had had surgery, lots who had had a flu jab, I could write dozens of postulated theories. But nothing that was in common. Including bypass surgery - you're the first to mention that on the forums!

      Have you not tried to reduce from 6.5mg? Because that is the only way to know - continuing to reduce the dose, very slowly, and watching for symptoms returning. Not even the blood markers are reliable - they may have been raised initially, it doesn't mean they will rise again, especially while on some pred. They do for some people, but not all. The fact you still have morning stiffness and myogelosis suggests there might well still be some pMR hanging around - but who knows as long as you are on pred. 

    • Posted

      Next reduction to 6.0 mg on the 20th. I wish I were in science I would devote myself. The big killers like cancer, heart disease, diabetes get all the funding. Hope to be posting for awhile yet, maybe to some day I'm in remission.
    • Posted

      So grateful for your wisdom, Eileen...and your thorough explanations.

      like everyone on this forum I am looking for a ray of sunshine, but in my heart I know there is no "shortcut" to remission. I will just try to appreciate how much better I am feeling, for however long it lasts! I admire you greatly for all the ups and downs you have been thru, and yet you manage to empathize with the rest of us! Thank you!

  • Posted

    I think your questions are good ones also Paul's wonderings......How are we supposed to know when the PMR is diminishing.....gone.  i have been on Prednisone over 2 years and although it treated fairly classic (if there is such a thing) sx of PMR beautifully, I developed Avascular Necrosis, maybe maybe not from Prednisone but I have had two total hip replacements since Dec 1 and you'd better believe I want off this medication unless I absolutely need to be on it as AVN can also attack other joints!  I feel asymptomatic as to PMR. I take 3 mg qd, down via 3.5 from 4.0 in November. I see my rheumatologist tomorrow. What questions should I be asking him? (He totally missed the AVN development). At this point, in my own thinking, I am going to stay at 3 mg for a bit and slip down to 2.5 and see what happens. I believe sed rate is fairly useless here?

    One other thing. When the surgeon did my hips there was a ton of inflammation in both joints. One wonders if the Pred is really helping then anyway. I am confused but want to make the best choices for this poor body. She has been through a lot!

    • Posted

      As I've just said to Paul - unless you keep trying a slow reduction you cannot know if the PMR is gone. Perhaps not something to be done continuously - in that you try, it fails, you try again immediately. But 1/2mg every few months should be on the cards. If it doesn't work you go back where you were immediately and try again next quarter. Just don't allow a flare to get going - or you'll be back at a higher not a lower dose.
    • Posted

      Two years is at the short end of the spectrum. Sed rate may be of use - but generally not while you are at a dose that is adequate for the PMR management - and you SHOULD feel pretty asymptomatic.
    • Posted

      Hi Gail, I was just thinking about you and hoping your operations went well.  Tough row to hoe isn't it?  All the best. ❤
    • Posted

      Hi you, Thanks for your note. Surgeries went well but oh my, something to be avoided if possible. i am hoping for some pain free days soon! How are you doing? Gail
    • Posted

      Compared with last year this time, which was hell on almost all fronts, this winter has been very good.  I feel PMR is well under control, but I am looking forward to a time when it (and pred!) don't seem to dominate my life quite so much. rolleyes
    • Posted

      yes, i know what you mean. One's world view becomes quite turned inward with pain. I'm glad it's going better!

       

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