Sleeping issues

Hi Richard. Ok. I'll ask although there are tabs that don't mix well with the venlafaxine. How are you finding venlafaxine? What dose are you on and what is it treating?

Chris.

Hi chris ... I choked runnin for the bus to school when i was 11 and i was on my own i couldnt get the sweet out, then i started havin panic attacks now i have 24/7 care by my mam, i cant stay on my own and im agoraphobic, i sit in my bedroom day and night ..... Im on 300mg of venlafaxine ....

30mg mirtazapine...3 hydroxyzine....3 antihistamines and 2 differebt inhalers for my asthma ... A also bought a oxymeter of ebay to check my oxygen levels so that i can check if its an asthma attack or a panic attack

Crikey that's bad news Richard. Sorry to hear that. What have you been diagnosed with, anxiety and panic attacks?

Yeah chris an agoraphobia and being checked for autism too , a just need somethin to whipe me brain and al be fine then lol

Hi Richard, I'm on 300 mg Venlafaxine and before them i was prescribed mirtazapine but never took them.Now I'm struggling with insomnia and not sure with what doze of mirtazapine i should start (i was prescribed 50mg daily ) until I will have the chance to see my gp after the new year. Any advice please?

Yes daniela .... Im on 300mg of venlafaxine and supposed to be on 1x15mg of mertazipine on a noght time but i actually take one on a morning when im ready to go out and pne on a night time .... The doctors can only prescribe 1 antidepresant they cant mix them but if you see a phsyciatrist they can mix them ... Thats why im allowed 1x 15mg of mertaz on a night time but i have told my doctor im taking 2 and she basically said its fine x she dosnt like me treating my self but i do haha x

What size tablets do you have, Daniela?  Mirt works wonderfully for sleep at very low doses, but it is also a merciless drug to come off of, so I would discourage starting with anything above 7.5 mg in case in time you want to come off.  I know people who are inching their way down 1 mg at a time from 7.5 mg and having horrible withdrawal.  If you have 30 mg tablets, then no more than 1/4 of that.  If you have 15 mg, then no more than half.  If you could get a pill cutter and take a quarter, that would even be better.

Hi thanks for your reply. Do you mean you suffered with sleep issues on 75mg until you increased to 225mg?

I'm thinking of the increase but if I'm honest, I'm petrified of going through the side effects again. I find it really hard. I've been on fluoxetine and peroxetine and they sent me mad.

I now see me as damaged goods now I'm in that mental illness black box. I'm damaged goods. I want to increase. Just scared. My depression seems to have reduced somewhat but cus I'm totally mentally tired my anxiety levels are still quite high.

No no am not on 75mg am on 300 mg but i cant sleep if i didnt have my mirtazipine and hydroxyzine .... But the doctors will not mix anti depressants but if ya see a psychiatrist they do mix them thats why am on 2 mate

Yes I suffered with sleep issues, but each increase in venlafaxine improved it.

I tried a number of antidepressants without much success way back before 1995; it took 9 years to find something that worked properly. Then venlafaxine was invented and I've never looked back and weaned myself off from 375mg over 10 years or so. I was so careful because I didn't want the illness returning. I was fine until 12 weeks after coming off the very last tablet, apart from not too bad withdrawal symptoms. Then the illness came back - depression with a bonus of anxiety which was truly horrid. It was the same as the original illness, but not as bad 'cos there was no lead up to it. Felt like my brain had broken. I started again the first day I was non-functional and worked back up to 225mg over a couple of months. Several months later I'm fine again - sleeping, having lots of ideas, able to concentrate, normal socially. Relapse feels like a bad dream. So nobody's going to advise me that we should try weaning me off it again!

Venlafaxine has kept me entirely well for 20 years (provided I take it). 

Fluoxetine made me want to trash things, peroxetine didn't exist when they were experimenting, other stuff made the walls move round, the old-fashioned tricyclics helped up to a point. If you met me you wouldn't know I'd ever been ill. I don't think you are damaged goods. You just haven't found the right answer to the illness yet. The one thing I've learned in the last year is that my illness is definitely due to chemistry and not due to any other life issues. If you had a heart condition and the medication didn't work you wouldn't say you were damaged goods. You'd just say that the medicine didn't make it work properly!

Hi Richard. Cheers for that mate. Can I ask you how you were with the drugs as in side effects? Have you any ideas as to why you have these conditions? Past events, trauma etc? Cheers mate.

Hi. Fantastic comments. Thanks. I know you're right. I know everyone is right deep down but trying to get those thoughts and feelings from the surface is neyon impossible. I can't get the racing thoughts from my mind that I have something else wrong with me. My paranoia regarding this illness is terrible. This is what's making it worse. I get angry easily and stressed but I'm putting this down to an exhausted mind. I work 10 hrs a day, drive 200 miles a day with a day's work in between. I know you are totally right and upping my dose is the only way. Did you have any bad side effects coming on the drugs? Im scared of the side effects increasing the more I increase the dose.

Yeah i have severe truma mate i was on my own in the back lane to my house when it happened and no one to get the rubarb and custard sweet from out of my throat .... Like i had it in my cheek runnin through the back lane and i must of breathed in and boom it got stuck and o couldnt breathe ... But i was blue when it happened ... Thwn it happened again a week later with a fish cake the mini ones so yeah....trauma never been able to leave the house since i was 11 iv been by my mams side since then shes never left me only when shes needed desperatly to go out then i stay with my dad

Hi Richard. That's bad luck mate. Have you ever thought of PTSD? It's obviously scarred you on the inside and you're struggling to have any form of normality. The trauma is a classic trait of PTSD

The persistent side effects are constipation, slightly blurred vision and possibly an increase in blood pressure but I've never been sure about that one. The blurred vision is only noticeable when I look at light-coloured writing on a dark background - the letters sort of glow above and below the line. Having said this I worked in a job which required really accurate eye sight and it never caused a problem. Other medications were much much worse for my vision. I think if a drug doesn't suit you the side effects kick in pretty rapidly with dose increases. In the very short term you *might* find you have to drive less while your vision settles down. I don't drive, but I do cycle for recreation and I gave that a rest for a while.

The first time I was on it I remember it giving me an itchy scalp and a nasty headache which would not go away but was told it was nothing sinister and my body got used to it. When I went back on it recently I didn't get these symptoms.

I'm a full-time mum by the way.

I didn't really care about the side effects because I could think, colours brightened up, I felt happy, I could sleep, I no-longer had episodes where I stopped moving. The people who don't get on with a particular medication tend to shout loudest on here and say it should be banned, but I think you would have had those problems on 75mg if it was going to happen. Good luck!

Thank you. I think it's only a matter of time before I increase my dose. My anxieties go through the roof and I get paranoid that every side effect I am going to get. I cannot help it. I live alone and it's frightening. I'd certainly take some time off if I increased my dose. I honestly don't think I have any other options.

I've been on venlafaxine before years ago. I came off them this year. The worst mistake I've ever made. When I was on them last time I remember being fine. This time is all so different. I can't drink on them. I don't feel socially enthusiastic and I can't sleep although I'm not as depressed as I was back in April. This dose is a massive disappointment this time.

Ah chris i didnt know you had been on them before ... I bet ou was on a higher dose as well .... If youv been on them before and u came of them and then went back on them you should of took the dose you was on the first time.... Other wise your gonna get more anxiety bein on a lower dose ..... Mind when you up your dose u will need to take a few days off work as u will feel dizzy sick and ul wanna be in bed ..... The only side effect i get off them is hot flushes now and then.... Anxiety is an awful thing i wouldnt wish it uppn anyone .... Its made me an alcoholic twice and twice iv had to be detoxed and its made me addicted to codeine so im now on buprenorphine which i have yet to come off

Yes it's the same dose as last time but it's not really touching the sides. It's treating different symptoms this times. Much more powerful issues.

I live in hope but it's not brilliant at the moment. Not bad but not as good as it could be.

It's a shame you're in the situation you're in. Have you tried any social groups or anything? Are you from the UK?

Can ya not tell by me typin where am from like aye ??? Pmsl 😂 Am a geordie lad so if ur from the uk ul know where that is haha ..... And you should deffo deffo deffo getthe doctor to up the dose, i never read the side effects because if you do and uv got any kind of panic youl not end up takin it and ul be in a worse situation ... Like id rather have the hot flushes about 3 times a day than not be on it as i was so bad when a wasnt takin it at all.... Yeah iv tried every thing .... Iv tried C.B.T ....N.L.P....hipnosis

They all do not work apart from once of the N.L.P

i had no anxiety for 3 weeks and i felt amazin but then it creped back in lol

Lol yeah I sure know where that is!! I'm from Nottingham. Well near there. Try an app called meetup. They are groups where you can meet people with the same conditions, experiences etc. makes you feel not alone with it.

Yeah I'm gonna up my dose. I tried nightnurse last night for a better sleep. Didn't do a thing. Still woke up.

I'd love to understand why this sort of sh*t happens to certain people.

I used to be well and after 1 event ie my separation, now I'm not! I've got a fantastic girlfriend that supports me with this condition, we have future plans but still it doesn't make me happy. Got to be the dose!!

I'm sorry to say that ven withdrawal tricked you, jebjew.  When you had the depression with anxiety to boot at 12 weeks, that was withdrawal, not relapae.  You likely tapered off too fast.  This is a very common problem with comming off SSRI/SNRIs and it happened to me, too.  I came off ven too fast last year, and for the first four-five months I had wicked physical symptoms, heaving sweating, increased heart rate and increased blood pressure, and incredibly bad mental fog, but I chalked it up to menopause since I was entering that...but at about six months out I began to have horrid anxiety, a sense of doom, vicoius insomnia with ruminating, troubling thoughts all night long, and so on...I still didn't know it was withdrawal, though, thought I was going mad.  Ended up on mirtazapine and when that didn't work, reinstated the Effexor....within one hour of that dose I felt 1000% better, a true sign of dependency!  Since then I have been on AD WD support forums where this story is all too common.  I can honestly say that I never suffered GAD before this, and the depression was unlike any I had experienced before - Withdrawal!

So, if you try again to go off meds, go much more slowly.  The WD authorities recommend a 10% taper per month, much slower than the docs would have you do.  It's a hassle, but when you have been on these drugs for a long time, your nervous system adapts to their presence and when they are taken away too quickly, a huge imbalance is created!  The nervous system can change back but it is a very slow process, so slow tapering allows a more gradual adjustment.

Thanks for your concern. The anxiety might have been increased by coming off the venlafaxine, but my original depressive illness came back

very suddenly, as it was all those years ago. It took 10 years to find *anything* that worked. Another medicine combination that treated a combination of seritonin and nor-epinephrine also worked briefly, but had other problems. I will never be off the drugs and I don't mind because the alternative is permanent hospitalisation or no life at all. I enjoy my life on venlafaxine.

Hi chris i didnt know you had actuslly replied to me .... Sorry for the late reply if you jave facebook mate you could add me .... Search for .... Richard Seamster James .... Hope to hear from you soon mate 👍

Yeah i wonder why too chris ... We only live once on this earth but our life seems to be planned for some reason... I drive and everything but as soon as im alone or try to drive some where i have a massive attack and have to come home so i just dont bother no more ..... Am gay but hope that dosnt stop you for speakin to me mate and im glad u have a lovely girlfriend who is supportin you through this mate, no one knows what this is like until they have neen through it them selfs, doctors etc they are only trained in it ...they aint actually been through it ..... They needs to be some kind of treatment to wipe our brains from nad memories ... I wish there was something to wipe my brain then i would have a normal life !!!

Hi Chris, you may be a slow metabolizer.  There is a genetic test they can do now called the cytochrome p450 test that can tell how you will tolerate drugs in general.  If you are a slow metabolizer, then your system doesn't process the drug very well and so it can build up and cause bad side effects.  Those who are average process it just right and so don't have as many side effects on start up.

Mirt works for sleep very well at low doses but is also one of the most cruel when it comes to withdrawal coming off, so think very seriously before acting on this one.  Have you tried Benedryl? 

Mirt has a very strong histamine block which is why it is so sedating.  It might be safer to use an OTC antihistamine like Benedryl to achieve the same affect.