Four questions from a newbie

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An ultrasound performed on me last month when I went to Emergency with abdominal pain revealed gallstones (and one 1.5 cm stuck in the common bile duct) so had stent inserted via ERCP with cholecystectomy recommended next month (January 2019). So much conflicting information on the internet but really reluctant to go ahead with extraction, particularly after reading this forum!

This sounds crazy, but I can actually feel the stent in there and while I wouldn't describe it as painful, I definitely feel pressure. Question 1: Has anyone else ever experienced this? It is not scheduled to be removed till March.

By way of background, I am a 65-year-old fair-skinned female, 155 lbs., so fit right in to the demographic of gallstone sufferers.

It seems there are specialists for every organ in the body but the gallbladder. Question 2: Should I be seeking the advice of a naturopath regarding alternatives to extraction? In the hospital, without exception, all doctors and nurses urged me to have my gallbladder removed or they said I would be returning to Emergency with another crisis and possibly compromise my liver. I only escaped surgery because the operating room kept getting filled with emergencies, so they discharged me.

I am eating light, low-fat meals, have given up wine, but continue to drink my morning coffee (and there are medical papers to support this: "Association of Coffee Consumption with Gallbladder Disease"). Question 3: What are your experiences with coffee?

And finally, Question 4: Loads of very strong responses (both pro and con) to Andreas Moritz's Gallbladder and Liver cleanse book. Your experiences with it?

Thank you for guiding this newbie.

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  • Posted

    From what I've read, the only curative option is to have the gallbladder removed.

    I wonder if there is so many scary stories on here because people are unlikely to come on here unless they have problems. So you don't hear as many good stories.

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    • Posted

      Why on earth you say that gall bladder removal is always the only option is further from the truth than is possible....... research what you say before writing incorrect advice please. For a start, have you ever heard of Ursodioxycholic acid?

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  • Posted

    Ursodioxycholic acid cured me two years ago so if your gall stone/stones is are cholesterol based then that course of dissolution will dissolve it/them. My 5 gall stones were 17mm and smaller but on the ultrasound the biggest was approximately 10mm and there were 2 left. I have not had any symptoms since bar the odd twinge. If I thought that they were giving me any symptoms whatsoever I would take more Ursodioxycholic tablets. It might take 6 months of higher levels of acid to dissolve them but I did not suffer any symptoms at all.

    The course of action is very accessible on the internet where you should research my writings which are the absolute truth.

    I do not practice a low fat diet because as you will see in the research in the USA in some instances a low fat diet can actually cause gall stones due to the inactivity of the gall bladder.

    Anyone saying that above does not work is not telling the truth.

    As regards the flush =yes I did it before the urso cours and it's not very nice in fact it's diabolical. Half a fresh lemon pup and juice in a quarter cup of a warm olive oil emulsified clears the gall bladder but get ready for action near the toilet! Quite honestly I would choose the URSO any day.......... It worked for me at 75 years of age. I did not want surgery but it is not easy finding a gastro surgeon who knows full well about it...... Even a GP can issue those tabs.

    In some instances Urso is given to patients who have liver cirrhosis.

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    • Posted

      This is so helpful, Micklemus. Thank you. I have made an appointment to see my GP tomorrow and will see if she will prescribe those and/or arrange for a HIDA scan.

      Why oh why is there so little research on the validity of the whole low-fat craze. I am no conspiracy theorist, but the fact that the traditional "healthy eating pyramid" was influenced by powerful food lobbyists with the grain and dairy boards certainly makes it suspect.

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  • Posted

    hi Mary.I am having my gallbladder out Dec.7th. The gallbladder will not better it just gets worse.when i first started reading the horror stories it scared me,but my surgeon said that people tend to post negative but you never hear the good outcomes.everyone i know that has had the surgery has gone thru it fine.so im trusting my surgeon.my hida was an 11 with sooo many awful symptoms.I know I'll be just fine and you will too.

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    • Posted

      What a kind response, Vivian. Thanks.

      Lucky you that you could have a conversation with your surgeon - mine is not that accessible. I haven't had a HIDA test yet, so I am curious to see the results ... not sure what an "11" means but I take it, it's bad. Did your doctor recommend that test or did you ask for it?

      Mary

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    • Posted

      Mary, my gastro.Dr. ordered it plus a ct scan and ultrasound and thank god he ordered the hida since i don't have stones everything would have looked normal on the ct and ultrasound.the hida will. definitely tell ypu if your gb is functioning.a normal gallbladder should be i think between a 35% to. like 70% (not sure on that last number) this shows you if your gb is properly functioning.and although i don't have stones or blockages my surgeon said that with some people they just are stubborn aƱd stop working which was my case. i am lucky i found a very nice surgeon he actually took out my gp's wife's gb out.my worst symptom from all this is gas in my upper chest and shoulders to the point its feels like an elephant sitting on my chest! Its horrible.but no naeusau or vomiting. along with terrible anxiety.cant wait to get it out.look at how many people get their gb out but only people with after problems post.not enough positive posts.But I will post a positive one after this is over.

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    • Posted

      Wishing you all the best for a successful surgery and quick recovery, Vivian. Will look forward to your positive post when you are up to it.

      M.

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  • Posted

    Hi Mary, this is a very hard one to answer and trying to 2nd guess the medical advice!

    Q1 answer No

    Q2 Answer I can only but laugh at that but you have my most sincere thoughts!

    Q3 I have no problem with Coffee but I cant have dairy milk so was using Coffee Mate again though you will find yay and nay to this Q.

    Q4 If you have read his book that should tell you all you need to know, however I have not read all of it yet but I do not think he covers a trapped stone in the bile duct, I do believe he talks about getting one and the consequences though. Most of us with Gall Bladder issues can relate to his words and I found the information in it remarkable and truthful and to the point. I have just come off a fasting water diet also doubted by the medical world and scared ignorant people. I am now going to get back to my Gall Bladder diet until my HIDA test request appt in Jan which I have had to wait months for. Once that has passed and depending on their answer I will do the Liver Gallbladder flush, I have got to wait because I do not want to flush anything before then.

    I have written a letter to my Dr telling her of my intentions, I refuse to be treated like we are living in a 3rd world country, the year 2018 and they know nothing about Gall Bladder and symptoms. Im sorry this sounds bad but I am very angry with the medical profession, when I have suffered for years. I am 57 and yes I have already purchased enema kit and all the items needed for the flush. In your case this is a debatable question and whether the Epsom salts will dilate the common bile duct, the last thing you want is for the blocked stone, then block all the others that come out which would be terrible and would require immediate surgery. If the information is not in his book, I think I would go to his web site and email, I believe a woman has taken over from his work and she is pretty helpful. I'm wondering if your Gall Bladder is so full that this has come from your Liver.

    Have you had upper right shoulder pain? This would give you an indication. I do not know what I would do in your position, I really do not.

    Are you saying they have dislodged the stone and put in a stent? Or are they proposing to take it out with Gall Bladder in the same procedure?

    Sorry Mary I re read your post and it just does my head in, one minute they are saying you will back in A&E then they don't do anything.

    I have to say and I am a Spiritual person, I wonder if this is intervention for you but this would depend on how bad your Gall Bladder is. I sit here just feeling so sorry for you, for the people who should be giving you comfort and sound advice, simply are not. You will find I am sorry to say and in line with Q2 this is the immediate answer, whip it out but what they wont tell you is, the aftermath once it has been taken out and if you think about it logically if they cant give you good information before extraction that tells the truth, However there are people that go through like a breeze of fresh air and come out able to eat anything they like.

    OK I have a question, are you taking medication which MUST be taken daily, If Yes then it would inadvisable to do the flush, Whilst he states that you can take meds I believe he says this is up to you because you need the Liver to be clean and ALL meds are toxins to the Liver. SO in your predicament I would go along with what they plan and another thing which entered my head is the stent, If they had not of done this I would giving you a different answer.

    And I strongly believe the public need to read this book, I got my local Library to get it for me as I did with a fasting book which has just come in but I am well verse with Fasting diets,

    I would have done the Atkins diet but the Gall Bladder prevents me from doing so. As you sound Like your computer Literate, I would also point you to Barbara O'Neal on YouTube an Australian lady who is a gem to listen to and get the in depth knowledge of our bodies and she also uses The Bible to back this up. Which is why the Jews have so may restrictions to what they eat and it all makes sense. It is only the Western World which is falling down with all these illnesses. I have to laugh because the Gall Bladder has all ready got me eating like a Vegetarian, which is what she promotes really.

    I also want to mention that Fasting does bring you to Spirit, it is a wonderful experience I had a wonderful day after meditation with spirit folk, it truly is remarkable.

    So my new year looks like its going to be very eventful.

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    • Posted

      Hi, Julian,

      Wow, thank you SO much for your very thoughtful and thorough reply! And you even tackled all four questions. My new GP is unfamiliar with patient reactions to stents (Q#1) but is going to set up an appointment for me to meet with the surgeon (he isn't the one who inserted it but at least he will be familiar with patients who've had them inserted ... and I also intend to ask how the heck he plans to extract my gallbladder but leave the stent in place for the GI guy to remove in March ... but that's a whole 'nother issue). And she is requesting a HIDA test at my urging. I anticipate his whole office will roll their eyes at the kook who wants to hassle them with all these annoying questions and not just be docile and accept their opinion unquestioned. You can tell I fully understand your irritation with the medical community but we place ourselves in their hands and trust their training and experience will help resolve our health issues.

      Q#2 I only asked because I have never been to a naturopath but thought it was another avenue to explore. Laugh away, but I am receptive to anyone knowledgable about the gallbladder. And western medicine does not have all the answers.

      Q#3 is because I am looking at recent medical studies that claim 4 cups of coffee a day are beneficial to your gallbladder's functioning, and I suspect the advice to give up coffee is in fact very dated.

      To answer your questions, no, I have had no shoulder pain and yes, they inserted the stent, "found" a 1.5cm stone (did they extract it? did it pass through the stent? no one told me anything). But I agree that I will not do the flush until I have met with the surgeon and know what's what. I have read some compelling evidence that the flush is not very useful to your gallbladder or liver and all that comes out of globules of the fat you ingested with lemon juice. But ... I mean ... 34 editions of Andreas Moritz's book have been published ... if it were quackery, I just don't think he'd have been that successful. And no, I do not take any medications.

      I have, however, done the Keto diet (much like Atkins) with great success losing weight and loved the high energy I felt while on it. But it is a super tough diet if you travel or eat out with friends. I had a moment's panic when I wondered if that was a causal factor in this first-ever gallbladder attack but then read it is now believed it prevents gallstones because the gallbladder is regularly flushed out dealing with the fat content of your diet, so stones don't form.

      Thank you for the recommendation of Barbara O'Neal - I will look for her on Youtube. And thank you again for taking my concerns seriously and giving such a careful and care-filled reply. In situations like this, we feel so vulnerable and ignored and it is really reassuring to have someone out there listening and taking the time to respond.

      Mary

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    • Posted

      Hi again Mary,

      To my thinking the stent has been put in so as to prevent another blockage, opening the Duct which is probably why that person wanted you in surgery PDQ?

      Yup, Keto this is another diet that mimics Atkins and Fasting Diets.

      Atkins was so close to finding the absolute answer for dieting and Keto seems like a very good answer for those who do not wish to eat lots of fat. The issue we have is as you replied, the foods we eat are sprayed with chemicals the soil is polluted and farming practices have changed accordingly, GM foods affect our own being long term not short. Low fat, Sugar free all bad for us because of the way they are processed.

      Anyway I do not want to depress you so will finish here, wish you a Merry Christmas and a pain free zone for New Year. Bless you

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  • Posted

    hey Julian, had my gb removed this morning. tummyis sore by the belly button incision but I've been up and walking the hallways of hospital and this gets the gases out.still no bm nurse says organs need to fall back into place.will take like 24 hours. I'm so glad i got this toxic gb out.i can already tell im going to feel like myself again.šŸ˜†

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    • Posted

      YAYYYYYYY , You go girl, you go ^5. I am so glad your happy and what a Christmas prezzy for you, I so hope your one of the good results, I cannot even begin to say how envious I am for you.

      So take your time now to heal, do not be tempted to over indulge with food or Booze over the festive season.

      MERRY CHRISTMAS VIVIAN

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