long term mirtazapine use - taper/withdrawal so far
Posted , 9 users are following.
Hello. This will probably be a long post. But i'd like to start by saying this forum has been a great help to me. Thank you for everyone that posts here. I've been on mirtazapine since i was 18. I'm 26 now. worked my way up to 45mg and stayed on that until 2 years ago when i went down to 30.
I'm going to mention a few things about me that i think are relevant.
after being on amytryptaline i was put on mirtazapine for insomnia and depression when i was 18. In hindsight my insomnia was from the fact i regularly smoked weed and had become dependent on it for sleep and the depression i'd had for years stemmed from a difficult childhood. i don't believe anything was wrong with me in terms of chemical imbalance or an actual disorder that i couldn't have resolved myself, had i been mentally capable or had someone to guide me.
i was an alcoholic from 19 to 25 never daily drinking apart from a couple of month long episodes, but 3/4/5 nights a week to excess. I went through an unpleasent withdrawal off that although not at the delerium stage. had a few months where i've drank to much and had slight withdrawals since but for the last 6 months i've only drank a handfull of times, normally still to excess though. The last month i've had nothing and i'm done with that now.
About 2 years ago i had a hernia operation and struggled sleeping afterwards due to the pain. I upped my dose to 60 mg thinking it would help me sleep better. I was at 60mg for about 5 weeks. i didn't notice any side effects but i was on codeine and other painkillers throughout and felt pretty off it anyway.
went straight back to 45mg and for the next few weeks i noticed i felt quite nauseated and also had something which i wouldn't have been able to describe if i hadnt seen it written on here as "brain zaps". These happened mostly when i was in bed. Having had an operation pushing my bowels around and having being on codeine for over a month i didn't pay any attention to these symptoms and they went within a month.
I went to the doctor at the start of this January and told him i wanted to start tapering down as i didn't like the side effects it had given me, particularly affecting my social life. I think once i was on this drug i lost my spark and most of the charisma i had. the side effects took a while to kick in and i think because the process was gradual i was unaware anything had changed. People i'd not seen for years pointed it out to me though. My dreams were messed up and i would get dizzy occasionally. For a reason i couldn't work out the doctor didn't think that coming off it was a good idea but i told him i was going to do it anyway and i could do with his advice. He said to halve 30 mg for 2 weeks then stop. He also said there'd be no side effects.
A few days went by and i started to itch on my back and the lower half of my legs. A woman at work had gone home because of itching the first day i noticed it, so again i thought nothing of it and thought there might be chemicals around or dust or something like that. Itching got worse and went to my stomach as well even though i'd had a short break from work. Thought it may have been because id switched a brand of supplement i'd been taking or because i was using a different shower gel. I even brought shower stuff meant for babies incase it was that haha
about 10 days on 15 mg i was starting to get less sleep as well and generally feeling ill so i went back to the doctor and asked his advice again. The only thing i'd noticed about mirtazapine was i slept better on high doses, although that goes against what i read on here. He said to try 22.5mg for a week but from his demeanour i could see he didn't really believe me. He also gave me a speech on how some people think doctors are in on a conspiracy to get us drugged up so they profit from it, and i shouldn't come on forums like this one because they fill your head with rubbish. At this point it wasn't in my mind that reducing mirtazapine was causing me any symptoms other than insomnia. He'd told me there would be no withdrawal, I believed him and id approached it with a positive mind. I'd not looked anything up to do with mirtazapine. That changed when i got home.
i found this site and it's helped me a great deal in terms of knowing what to expect, to reassure me that i'm not losing my mind and has pointed me in the direction of sources to show that my doctor's recommendation for withdrawal was too fast.
since January 24th i was on 15 mg and as of last night i had about 2mg. I dont have scales to weigh doses. i break ten days worth of pills into roughly the same size and take them biggest to smallest. the smallest pill is then used as the marker for the next lot that i break. I make them slightly but noticeably smaller than the last of the previous batch then repeat the process.
I'l try and keep this short, these are the symptoms i've noticed since january
Brain zaps - occasionally. between 15mg - 7.5mg. none since below 7.5mg
Anxiety - I get nervous in social situations, not overwhelmingly but i can feel myself blushing and i stutter a bit when i speak sometimes. Mainly just with people i'm not good friends with. This didn't happen when on 30mg, i just had no desire to talk to people haha
Sleep Disturbance - nowhere near as bad as i feared so far, waking up a few times a night but getting 5 hours or so.
Confusion - cant explain it other than i feel like i've just appeared in a situation even though i was concious of entering it. My memory is bad, particularly short term. I can get half way through a sentence and i just lose track completely. This doesn't happen often though.
Jittery - my body feels shaky and i'm easily startled. People saying hello makes me jump or if theres a sudden loud noise that i'm not anticipating my hearts jumping around! Any sort of stress or conflict that i witness makes me feel like im vibrating and i feel sick.
Lethargic - I've felt really sedated the past 2 weeks, not much energy and constantly tired.
Itching - a tiny bit, not really a problem anymore.
Racing thoughts - i would have thought i'm losing my mind if it wernt for this site.
Manic - I have moments when i'm really hyper, mentally.
Nausea and lack of appetite - not too bad managing to eat 3 meals a day but i'm not really hungry for them. Feel a bit sick in the morning and after eating
Dreams - when i do sleep my dreams are very intense and sometimes extremely disturbing and graphic.
Sweats - couple of night sweats, i have a clammy face in the day and look terrible.
Depersonalised - feel a seperation between my mind and body. Weird feeling but i'm ok with it.
My withdrawal symptoms would be scaring me and i would have been off work a long time ago had i not been through similar before. When i came off alcohol i went to a n e thinking i was having a heart attack.
Positives - despite being tired i mentally feel more awake. even though that contradicts itself. i do feel more social i just have a little melt down when i talk to most people haha i also have had no craving for junk food and have lost about half a stone.
I'm posting this now as of today i'm stopping taking it altogether. a situation with a colleague at work over the past week (which i've been cleared of any wrong doing by the way, and have been asked if i want to make an official grievance against him) has led to me being able to use my holiday in one go so i have to take advantage of that. Other people causing me stress isn't worth it, but up until now i've have held my job down despite how i feel. The symptoms of tapering so far have been unpleasant but nothing i've not been through before and are manageable. Its the duration of it thats getting me more than anything and obviously i've not stopped taking it altogether until tonight. A little bit concerned if i'm a bigger mess than i am now when my holiday runs out, then my doctor might not sign me off because "there isn't withdrawal". But both managers i spoke to today were really nice to me after i explained my situation and have said they'll do anything they can to help me so i'm in a good mood. Got no other pressures to deal with so i'm looking forward to it in a twisted way. It will be nice to be able to post here when i'm through it all, so i'm sticking it out whatever happens/ however long it takes.
If you want to take advice from me i'd say to sort your diet out. I.e no processed foods or ready meals, drink water or de caf tea, get your fruit and veg. Remove anyone that causes you grief from your life. Walk away from any situations with tension. If you are physically capable then be outside as much you can. Exercise as vigorously as you can. Listen to music with a positive message behind it. Don't watch the news or read the newspapers. I don't think it's healthy to be bombarded with stories of paedophiles, people getting blown up or murdered on a daily basis anyway. Let alone when you have this to deal with as well. Focus on the positive things in your life. Even if it's one good thing for every 100 bad, the bad are irrelevant when your mind is elsewhere. Think of what you take for granted at the moment and concentrate on appreciating it.
This drug worked initially but i was on it way to long. I also feel if i'd have taken a month off smoking weed and would have had someone in my life who could teach me how to think with a positive mind, then i wouldn't have needed any medication for depression or insomnia. I'm not saying that's true for everyone but i feel for the sake of a quick fix i've been in a fog for my best years and i can't get that time back.
if you read all this then thankyou, and i assume you're going through the same so good luck to you. Be patient and stay positive.
2 likes, 86 replies
Forestfire
Posted
Despite having no energy or motivation for it, I forced myself to do some weight lifting, and performed better than i thought. I felt terrible for the first 5 minutes but after that my mind was racing much less and i completely forgot about nausea and any other bad feelings. I ate straight after (not something i would normally do id usually wait an hour) and felt sick again but this went after an hour and i felt great. I played some guitar later which improved my mood further.
I was actually really happy by night time and watched a bit of tele before bed. I could feel myself falling asleep and could hear the tele still on so opened my eyes. The character on the screen was talking but his face looked completely different to usual. It was only for a split second and i know i'd imagined it but i was instantly filled with dread. My heart started pounding i was sweating and shaking and feeling really agitated.
This lasted a good 30 minutes in bed and i was having to remind myself every few seconds i wasn't going to die. Then the brain zaps started lol I can't really describe the sensation i've experienced before but these were much worse and affected the whole of my head rather than just a section of it. These zaps progressively got worse and i did actually think at one point that this might be too much for me to handle and i'd made a stupid decision to go through withdrawal. I went down stairs and was going to have half a tablet but I didn't though and after another 20 miuntes of my brain exploding i must have been asleep by 1am. Woke up at 7 so i got a good 6 hours and i feel good again this morning although very tired.
I kept a calm head throughout and was constantly reminding myself it was withdrawal and il be ok. Think it just shows how delicate your mood can be when going through this and even things that you know are ridiculous can still set you off and affect you physically for quite a while after.
Not getting carried away because i know it takes about a week for the full effects of a reduction to hit me, but i'm still optimistic. Also, i have started itching today and that is usually the first sign that things are going down hill in the next few days.
I'l say it again though, if i hadn't been through similar stuff before and i'd trusted my doctor about no withdrawals then last night would have resulted in me being in a n e at some point. There's no way you could have them effects (without expecting them and knowing they are normal) and not freak out and make the situation worse than it is.
I should point out as well that although i am very happy with my sleep for both nights so far (4/6 hours) im dropping off a few hours after i would do if i was working and also waking up a couple of hours after i would need to be up. If i was still at work then sleep would be a major issue for me. 1 Because i wouldn't be getting anywhere near enough to feel well and secondly i would be worrying a lot about the effect it's going to have on my job in general, which would effect my mood, which makes sleep worse etc.
I'm a very private person and i really didn't want anyone knowing my buisness but i'm so glad i opened up to my employers and we've been able to sort something out to make this easier for me. I'd recommend anyone else to do the same. It's worth the five minutes of awkwardness and blushing as you are explaining your situation haha
lorraine52317 Forestfire
Posted
you are doing wonderfully well for the early stages. I'm certain this is down to your positive approach and your mindset to stay calm. It sounds like you accomplished a lot yesterday, try and incorporate plenty of mini breaks from activities in these early days. Are you taking anything like diazepam to help you over this period? Look forward to your updates ♥♥
Calmer Forestfire
Posted
You had quite a fright night; I picked up on the "sudden feeling of dread" that you spoke of ... you said: " i was instantly filled with dread. My heart started pounding i was sweating and shaking and feeling really agitated", this is such a nasty side to Mirt' - I sometimes get this when I'm just about to fall asleep ~ I've tried to deal with it by saying to myself "oh here we go again, but it won't stay long and then be gone" by riding WITH IT instead of FIGHTING IT. This might sound a little crazy, it is a form of mindfulness, but if you tell yourself not to "fear it", recognise it, accept it, and then let it pass. The same with any unwanted thoughts, if we suddenly panic it multiplies 10 fold, and I think we do have a choice when it happens. Does this make sense?
Also worth a mention, eating sugar, chocolate, puddings, cakes can be a trigger so watch that one. Sugar is my enemy during wd, makes me so restless, agitated, disturbs sleep and sometimes causes RLS, ggrrr hate that restless leg syndrome!
The itching can be awful can't it, Mirt' carries a huge histamine block, and when this is suddenly taken away (a quick withdrawal) it can bring on the itching, when Mirt' is taken away histamine flood the body and brain, can cause an assault so an over the counter, Anti Histamine (non drowsy) during the day will help with that, maybe for several weeks or a month once totally off Mirt.
And I hear your cry about going downstairs when you said you were going to take a pill; I would say to have plan B ready if you need to do a little back track, nothing wrong with that, so many do, decide to go back to the dose which was working well before you stopped, i.e. I see you stopped at 2 mg, that right? If so, and if you were good on
2 mg for a week or two then that maybe the best dose, if you were only on 2 mg very briefly you might need a little more, see how you go, nothing is written in stone, the important thing is to keep you comfortable during the wd, no point in beating yourself up or toughing it out when there is a kinder way. I have to say 2mg to zero is a tough call, so maybe a little rocky for some folk.
Hope you're not aching from those weights, well done with that, keep focused, see the sunshine, hear the birds, taking in the good, it all helps.
Wishing you well x
Forestfire Calmer
Posted
I've been cutting sugar and most processed food out my diet for a couple of months. It makes me too hyper and increases how much my thoughts race which creates a better environment for anxiety and panic to thrive in.
I actually went from approx 6.5mg to 4mg for 3 days then stopped. Before then i had done it a lot slower, particularly from 12.5mg to 6.5mg. I have seen a couple of people (not many) who came off 7.5mg ok although i know this wouldn't be recommended by anyone other than a doctor haha i was going to do 4mg for 2 weeks, then 2mg for 2 weeks, then 1 for 2 weeks then nothing but situations changed that.
And i've actually been sitting in my garden in the sun watching the birds come in and eat off the feeders. I'm getting closer to them each day, i want to get to the point where they land on my head!
Thank you for your reply
Forestfire lorraine52317
Posted
Erm i am taking something for sleep but i'm not sure what the forum rules are so i hadn't mentioned it yet. Seeing as you've asked i will tell you as i don't want to mislead anyone into thinking i've done this 'sober' so far.
I'm smoking cannabis throughout my mirtazapine withdrawal ( as i have done my whole life since i was 15) I see it as the least harmful of my addictions (i've had a few) whilst having the most benefits.
Benefits - insomnia relief, dream suppression (some stuff i dream about can mess me up for a couple of days) increased appetite and a general mood lifter.
Negatives - can increase paranoia and anxiety, adds to the lethargic feeling of withdrawal, played it's part in messing with my head the other night when i droped off in front of the tv.
I'm not recommending anyone else to use it, but it has been very useful for me so far. It has helped me with the insomnia and nightmare side of alcohol and nicotine withdrawal in the past. Although it has no benefits in stopping smoking tobacco in the long term!
I've stopped smoking it for a month or so a few times, i know what the withdrawal effects are and i know how long they last. Mirtzapine is an unkown for me and i will feel like i'm clean once i'm off that and cigarettes as i know that when i quit weed it's 10 days/ 2 weeks insomnia and then i'm ok again.
I've been gradually getting myself off stuff/sorting my life out for the past 18 months. Cannabis was always the last to go as it helps with everything else. Although like i mentioned earlier it can make certain things worse.
If i'm not allowed to mention cannabis on here could you just delete this comment and not the whole discussion please. Im not trying to promote anything bad.
Forestfire
Posted
lorraine52317 Forestfire
Posted
it sounds like you have a solid strategy and it's working. ♥ I am sure a little puff is better than taking benzos! Mind you would ibe right Iin saying cannabis is laced with weird chemicals these days? When I was young (many moons ago) it would be the pure stuff, which would give you the giggles and the munchies. Anyway I think you are doing really well and your approach is excellent. To concur any addiction plus conquering mirt is outstanding! ♥
look forward to your updates
god bless
Lorraine x
lorraine52317 Forestfire
Posted
it sounds like you are stopping a lot of things in record time! It may be kinder to hang on to your tobacco for just a bit longer. (Or replace with a ecig) Otherwise your system is getting a battering left, right and center! Lol. I honestly would consider not giving up everything in one go. keep your updates coming xx
Forestfire lorraine52317
Posted
If i suspected it was laced with anything from appearance, smell or effect then i wouldn't smoke it. It's only happened to me once that i can remember and that was years ago. I trust my regular source 100%, Old school hippie not too fond of any chemicals in general.
I'm giving it until sunday to decide whether i quit cigs before i go back to work. that would give me 8 nights to get over the worst of that before being back at work. If i'm not ready by sunday then it'l be something i do another month or so down the line. It's coming though
lorraine52317 Forestfire
Posted
Nothing wrong with the old school stuff! :-)
Are you managing all aspects of life as normal? Do you feel well enough for work?
I'm on a combo now venlafaxine and mirtazipine! It's meant to be rocket fuel but so far, failure to launch! Lol
wishing you well xx keep the posts coming!
God bless x
Forestfire lorraine52317
Posted
I'm back to work in 6 days and i've got no choice to be well enough haha. I think i should be ok though. Going to get out a bit more this week. I feel relatively ok when i'm by myself or with my family though.
Have you managed to launch yet?
Good luck and i hope you are well
lorraine52317 Forestfire
Posted
It sounds like you are making great progress. Do you feel ready to resume work? I'm am sure your friends whose birthdays you missed, will understand.
I'm still waiting to launch, the tank is slowly filling up with fuel! Then lift off lol!
Look forward to your updates xx
Forestfire lorraine52317
Posted
Really struggled with eating the last few days (only been getting high before bed as i can see i was starting to smoke too much) and i've noticeably lost weight in that space of time.
Can't say i'm good to resume work but i have to go back wednesday so i will have to be haha
Like i say though, hopefully its the other stuff thats made me go like this the past few days and i'm not particularly worried by it yet.
Good things come to those who wait. Good luck with the launch
Forestfire
Posted
The effects on my sleep have been nowhere near as bad as i feared. It takes me an hour to drop off but i'm getting about 5/6 hours a night, which is good for me. Also i've had no nightmares at all which is usually one of my main problems with any withdrawal. I've not had the brain zaps the last 2 nights either.
The itching is worse in terms of how much of my body is effected now, but it was more intense when i did bigger drops earlier on.
I feel like i'm at a crossroads now. Either, for some reason, i'm not going to have that big a reaction to stopping completely. (I think this because things got worse initially rather than i just felt fine straight away). Or, the initial worsening was from me cutting down the week earlier and the effects from stopping altogether haven't started yet lol So i'm either on the mend or its the calm before the storm, how exciting!
Would like to add that i still feel worse than normal. My 'normal' state at the moment involves feeling like i've just got over the flu or i went out drinking last night and only got a few hours sleep before work lol
It's all been very manageable so far though
and i've seen a couple of replies that i've not got back to i'l do tat this morning. Good luck to whoever's reading this 
lyndsey33 Forestfire
Posted
Forestfire lyndsey33
Posted
How long have you been on it? it can take a while to start taking effect. I only 'needed' it for sleep so i can't really give you anything to compare it too. It was meant to be for depression as well but i think i was just really miserable and mis diagnosed.
A huge positive for me coming off it has been reduced cravings for junk food. I can't emphasise enough how much of a difference has happened there. Don't want to give advice as i'm not qualified in any way but if weight is an issue thats making other symtoms worse for you then it might be worth asking your doctor about something else.
I've thought about doing an autobiography but i'd need to include everything about me and i'm not brave enough for that. It would also need a happy ending and i'm not there yet
I do write songs though and i include some of this stuff in a few of them.
Good luck to you