Moving abroad
Posted , 6 users are following.
I’ve always been a person with a bit of social anxiety, a bit more shyness, a 50/50 extroverts/introvert.
I always had problems contacting people I didn’t know, even by phone.
Because of this I had quite a few disappointments back in the days of my adolescence, college, university.
Educational, professional, sentimental, you name it.
Eventually I found a good job where somehow I avoided to expose myself to too much interaction, meetings, presentations.
My sentimental life also started to work.
But I have never lost that feeling of social anxiety, shyness, avoidance of human contact.
And then, I received a job offer from abroad and I said: why not, a change will help me to progress, right??
So, here am I, changing the country, changing the job and leaving everything behind.
The thing that my new job impacts everything I was afraid of, interacting with people, holding presentations, having initiative, delivering ideas.
When I first came, nobody introduced me to the team and department, they just gave me a laptop and that it. My boss started in the beginning by asking a lot of things from me, more and more, then he combined that with ignoring me and letting me work “by having initiative”.
After 7 months I barely interact with 2-3 persons from a team of 70, the rest they don’t know me and I never interact with them besides “hello”, I have panic attacks when I just heard that I will have to present things or interact with someone or call another person.
I feel useless at work and besides that, I don’t have any other activity outside the work because all my hobbies were related to my home country.
I don’t speak the local language and I’m having serious trouble learning it. After 7 months I barely know few words.
I’m living in a constant fear of not being fired as I’m caught in the middle, I don’t want to return to my home country as I don’t have anything anymore there, no house, no car, no good job (I gave up to a very good job for this new one).
But I don’t want to work or live here as well.
In the past 2 months it was worse than ever. I had depression all my life, from my childhood to maturity but I managed somehow to keep it at bay and enjoy life. Nevertheless, I feel that now I’m cracking, I tried to do some of my old hobbies, I went to the nature, read, no use. I feel how I’m on a descending path and nothing can stop me.
I don’t have a psychologist to talk to because I don’t speak the local language, I don’t have yet a social security insurance to go to a shrink and get some pills.
I started to have suicidal thoughts….
1 like, 26 replies
Dr.D john.stoian
Posted
hey john,
i'm really sorry to hear about your situation.
the fact that you consciously know what to do and still are not able to do so is because you let your feelings get in your way. it looks like you act a lot by the emotions and not your rationality. and this results in avoidance behaviour, which will only make it worse.
your emotions may be uncomfortable yet they're not harmful.
what is the reason you don't talk to anyone else but only to these 2-3 people? do you fear they could not like you? even if so, who are they to judge!?!
you're having a tough time. moving to a new country, starting a new job, meeting new colleagues, leaving everything behind. i think it is normal that you have some issues adjusting to the new situation. the thing is that your coworkers may not know or realise what you're going through. if you put yourself into the role of the "new guy" by asking people for help i'm sure you'd realise that people are very willing to help and that you're not a failure or someone that could not be liked. this will give you confidence and with time you'll feel more relaxed.
if you're trying to fix that "problem" with medication or drugs there is one thing and can say for sure. you're not getting anything fixed at all. plus it seems that you're able to go to work and perform which is why i suggest to work with your inner resources. obviously with your upbringing a lot of thought patterns have manifested that are no longer of use to you and rationally you know that. now you need to change your behaviour too, even if it is hard. in the long term you'll benefit.
if you still think you need something to calm you down a bit. try some herbal medicines first. valerian has a calming effect yet you may not feel the effect immediately so it can take a few days before you feel more relaxed. you can take it before you go to bed or even during the day.
sincerely,
d
john.stoian Dr.D
Posted
The thing is not that I didn’t try but exactly this is my problem that it got worse by trying.
I mean, 10 years ago I was so scared with public presentations and speaking in front of a large group of colleagues (even by the skype, video or audio).
Today, after maybe 10-15 big presentations, one public speaking course, some 20 hours of cognitive-compartmental therapy I’m still heavily anxious when it comes to presenting something and it drains me of energy a simple half an hour speech.
The one-on-one small talk is the same. I look around, people don’t have any issue in contacting other people, they go straight to that specific person and ask for something. However, it’s not my case. For me is a struggle.
And I cannot grasp the reason why I’m like that. I mean, I’m not really afraid of being evaluated (I’m no matter what, especially when I’m that quite guy doing his job and leaving home), I think I’m afraid more of not disturb the people, of being too intrusive by going straight and presenting myself.
And even if sometimes I have ideas like that, then rationally I realize that it’s stupid to go to present myself with no reason because another problem I have is that my job, by design, hasn’t allowed me to interact with people and my boss didn’t involve me in any of his meetings when he was new in the company and he was meeting people.
It’s the same thing with the language barrier. I’m afraid to speak with anyone in a foreign language because I don’t have a self-esteem. I know that the others don’t speak a perfect English in the office but still, when I speak with them I feel I forget everything and I start to focus on not doing mistakes and eventually I look stupid.
The same thing with French, I will never speak it, not because I don’t know it, I did a lot in school and a lot of courses, it’s just that not practicing it for 10-15 years, now it’s very hard to speak it and I’m afraid of not looking stupid. Thus, I prefer to not speak it. “If you don’t do anything, you won’t be mistaken”
So I’m sabotaging myself, I know it and I cannot do anything about it.
I even applied the sock therapy of confronting direct with what I’m afraid. Even though back then I wasn’t in such a lousy shape, after 5-6 tentative I gave up because I was becoming even more depressed seeing how bad I act in stressful environments.
Sometimes I ask myself how the beep I manage to have a career path.
I also tried valerian, magnesium and other herbs that are well known for relaxations. Didn’t worked. I took valerian for 3 full months with no use.
Dr.D john.stoian
Posted
hey john,
have you tried working on your self-esteem?
everything you say, although you wrote that you're not afraid of being evaluated in your reply yet later you say the exact opposite as you may feel stupid when trying to speak french and making mistakes, leads me to the conclusion that you value yourself much lower than everybody around you. of course this makes you anxious as you're always on the stand that you could make a mistake resp. feel the emotions that are bound to it.
i'm very convinced from your original post and your replies that you've become that way because of your upbringing. raised to be a perfectionist, to be the best and experiencing a lot of arguments between the parents may put you under a lot of pressure and that's how you got your programming.
but, that does not mean that you're not equal to others. it simply means that you are human and have a history as everybody does. have you ever asked yourself why other people in the office are not getting in contact with you? they may be afraid the same way you are. in fact many people have similar problems. yet no one wants to say it as most are afraid of being judged. but then we rather go to a shrink telling all our problems and hope for relieve.
in my opinion your self-esteem has probably a big impact on your life and how you face it and i think this is definitely something you could work on. even if it may not be the root of your issues a good self-esteem has no negative side-effects.
to do so i recommend the following book by marylin sorensen "breaking the chain of low self-esteem".
about the valerian. how much did you take? maybe the dose was too little?
kind regards,
d
Adldiane john.stoian
Posted
Hi there. I'm not going to pretend that I have answers for you. I don't. But I do hope that you continue to look for help. Diane
john.stoian Dr.D
Posted
thanks a lot for the book recommendation. I'm currently reading it and wow! I'm blown by the realization of my problem. I had so many psychotherapy sessions but none of them addressed to the root cause (maybe), low self-esteem (LSE), just the visible effects such as...anxiety, depression, fear....
I took the test in the book and I have severe LSE......which is quite normal after 30 years of negative thoughts accumulation. Having negative thoughts about me and my performance is my second nature...
At least I have something to hang on for a while, trying to work on my LSE in a corporate environment that is built to de-humanized you.
Thank you all for the support. I'll be back here with further insights into how the things are going....
Dr.D john.stoian
Posted
john,
you're very welcome. hang in there!
john.stoian
Posted
5 months later....same story, same problems, maybe worse.
I've tried to take some depression pills for a couple of months but it didn't work.
I guess my only solution for me is to retreat into the woods, build a cottage there and live alone for the rest of my life or maybe to build there my self-reliance.....
Dr.D john.stoian
Posted
hi john,
i am sorry to hear you don't feel better yet. but let me reassure you are not at the end of the road!
you mention antidepressants, may i ask
- which one's you took
- what dosage
- for how long
- who prescribed it and for what reasons
- why did you decide to discontinue?
it is not uncommon for people to have some difficulty finding the right medication.
did you get in touch with a therapist?
- what was his/her opinion on why you're feeling this way?
- what specialisation did he/she have? CBT, psychodynamic/psychoanalytical?
how did you spend the last 5 months? i mean did your "anxiety" ease at some point you became routined with the new environment or didn't it subside at all?
kind regards,
d
john.stoian Dr.D
Posted
IHi Dr. D,
Thanks for your reply....
I took Stabilium 200, 4 pills per day x 3 months, no particular improvements, just some moments when I feel detached from what is happening around me.
I took them without any prescription from a therapist, just from internet reviews for natural stuff...
Unfortunately, it's not easy to find a therapist to speak my language in a foreign language and for this kind of subjects, a more complex vocabulary is needed.
Not that it might work because in the past I did some months of cognitive comportamental therapy for anxiety and some months of psychoanalytical therapy. No improvements, I might say it even made things worse because becoming aware of my thoughts really increased drastically my LSE.
The last 5 months where like the initial 7 months, I didn't become routine, I'm still struggling with LSE even after reading "breaking the chain of low self-esteem", I mean, I perfectly agree with the book but in order to fight with LSE I need to have a favorable context while the situation gets even worse, more colleagues are avoiding me, I have less confidence in me, and in the future I will need to give more important presentations.
If I quit and go back in my country I'll be even more depressed after the failure in living a better life in a more developed country and I will be eaten alive by the society, if I stay here I will persist in this situation until I will crack, in other countries, english-speaking, I cannot go for the moment because I don't have enough financial resources for moving again.
It's my personality that is pulling me back because otherwise, 99,99% of people wouldn't have any problems if they were in my shoes. It's my chronic shyness and LSE that are destroying my life piece by piece.
I arrived on that point where I'm thinking to tell my gf to look for another man with which she can build a future because I'm too week for offering her a nice future, kids, a house....but losing her it will throw me down the spiral.
borderriever john.stoian
Posted
Have you now returned to the UK ?
May I suggest you try to become involved in some activities or hobbies, with groups of people the same as you, this will help you get to know like minded people, who will not try and push you down.
In the UK you may find groups with Mental Health problems, these groups become more like a group of friends who you will eventually gain support from.
Ask your GP or go to the Library, they may know about groups who support eachother and help you move on.
You could also try a Night class that deals with hobbies and activities, such as dancing, walking or learning Languages. Anything to help you gain confidence when with others.the same as you.
In my old town we had a club that was set up for people with Mental Health Concerns, I was A Volunteer in the Information Centre and dealing with the public and members brought me out and helped me move on.
The club itself was like a family and would also help each other.
I also took training in my teens to become a Youth Leader and Community Worker that kept me busy and I gained confidence.
If you choose a Night Class that may bring you into a world of people helping each other, you will move on with confidence
BOB
Dr.D john.stoian
Posted
hey john,
i know life may seem hopeless to you at the moment in regards to a better future but i can tell you from my own experience and the experience of countless others that this temporary situation must not persist for ever.
i also hope that you don't break up with your girlfriend as it will not solve the problem but rather make it worse. in the beginning you may find relieve as you feel there is no one you'll be a burden for but then you'll probably realise that you still suffer and will very likely resent yourself for breaking up. i am telling you this because it is what i did and how it went for me. instead do not take responsibility for her choices in life. if she wants to stay with you then that is her decision. accept that she loves you for who you are and that you have the right to be loved.
here is also one point of which i see as your problem. you may think of yourself as worthy and loveable if you can give or perform and act as society expects you to do. and based on what you already told this is deeply programmed in your mind and as long as you believe this in your inner you will never get relief. rationalising this you may have come to the insight that this type of love is not unconditional but rather very conditional for which it is very discomforting. thus it seems no wonder you feel that way.
have you ever tried an actual approved medicine for relief such as escitalopram?
in my opinion it will take at least a few weeks if not month you can expect lasting improvement. i'm saying this because it's a realistic view. why... your wiring of the brain has very likely changed over the years and as long as you're not rewiring it for a "healthier" life you will probably not see any improvements. so in order to get your brain metabolism into healthier shapes you need to constantly train them in. i strongly recommend that you see a therapist, take some medication (ssris probably start with escitalopram as it is very calming and tested for social phobias and anxiety) and start with a relaxation technique such as autogenic training.
i see that finding a good therapist is a challenge in your situation as of the language. but i'm sure there are either therapists that speak your mother tongue where you are located or you can find someone that has a common language like english in which you seem to be very fluent.
i am sure where you are living right now there are centers that can offer you help in terms of finding a good therapist. maybe ask your girlfrind for helping you find one!?!
medications such as antidepressants will be able to provide you with a more relaxed attitude which will help with therapy as you may exit the "survival mode" in which you're in and enable you to actively participate in therapy.
autogenics training is a tool that can help you relax and calm down almost immediately when you've learnt and train it constantly. studies have shown that our physiological responses change with and during the training, making us able to relax. since you seem to be in a constant state of stress i suggest you start with something like this. regarding AT it is best to learn it in classes as there are a lot of things one can do wrong and end up feeling "it's not for me". so maybe your girlfriend will join you in taking classes!?!
two other things which are important for a calm life are nutrition and activity. a good and balanced diet, rich in salads which lower blood pressure, as well as activity (walking is very good) help your body to get and stay healthy. plus removing stimulants such as coffee and sugar out of the diet will improve overall wellbeing as the bodies homeostasis is more stable which creates less peak moments.
what do you think?
regards,
d