normal gallbladder but still have horrible pain.

Posted , 7 users are following.

I had my gallbladder removed with keyhole surgery over 6 years ago, which was found to be totally normal with no stones or sludge. I have had the same pain for over 20 years with no clue as to what is the cause. Had a Nissens fundoplication op in case it was acid reflux but had that reversed as it was not the cause. Still had the pain. It goes from right side where gall bladder was up to right shoulder to the back and sometimes right over to the right side in the front. Had so many scans and endoscopies all to no avail. Am at wits end as it seems to be getting much worse and everything I eat causes pain. I have been on anti depressants which do not help and my doctor seems unable to do anything more. Have been to Harley street and  a professor up at Guildford hospital and no one knows what to do. Rely on stron pain killers which are becoming less and less effective. Someone please tell me what is going on in my body.

1 like, 14 replies

14 Replies

  • Posted

    Sounds horrible.  Sorry to hear you are suffering so much.

    Tell me - there is no coedine or opiates in your pain killers is there?

    They can cause pain symptoms in some people with gallbladder removed.

    • Posted

      No, as I learnt that morphine only makes it worse when I was repeatedly hooked up to IV morphine in the ER. I just rely on soluble paracetomol. Only this is not working any more. I also swallow Gaviscon and chew rennies to no avail. In the middle of a nasty one right now. All I ate was some grilled white fish and steamed broccoli.
    • Posted

      I imagine your diagnosis has been lumped into the IBS category?

      I'm sorry I can't be of any help - it seems there are so many people suffering like yourself with no clear diagnosis.

      I also went through a stage of trying to manage my reflux with prescribed antacids and gaviscon.  After several month of no progress I read something that said that antacids could actually be the cause of the issues.  The theory went along the lines that your stomach can't really be 'over acid' - it is designed to work with hydrochloric acid after all, but it can be 'under acid' - ie the balance isn't right and so it kicks up a fuss and over works to try and digest food giving reflux symptoms.

      So, rather counter intuitively I started drinking Apple Cider Vinegar regularly, and when I had what felt like acid reflux I drank a shot of diluted ACV.

      I have no idea if this is placebo, quack medicine or random luck, but I don't suffer from reflux any more (fingers crossed).  But I did have my gallbladder out as well so it was prob. that as well.

      The only thing that worked for me with the pain was a hot water bottle right under the ribs.  But I imagine you have tried everything.

      I hope you can find some relief tonight.  Sending positive vibes your way smile

       

    • Posted

      Thanks for the tip which I will try out when I feel a bit less like jumping off a bridge.  I will get the hot water bottle out yet again.
    • Posted

      carol of all the vegetable i eat and i eat a lot. broccoliie is the one that i just can not digest. i have no idea why. i ate it once with fish myself and felt quite uncomfortable  later it did go awa, but i ate it again and i did feel that it made me feel quite unwell so i dont eat broccolli anymore at all. thats when i reazlized that it was the broccolli. thats my  experience anyway. as not all vegetable are easy to digest. i make lots of organic lentil soup and fill it with all sorts of veg and i know im getting some vitamins that way as i have a very small appetitie. i seem to get full up after just a few mouthfulls. hope this helps🌹
  • Posted

    Sorry to hear of your troubles and hope you will find some relief. I am on here looking for answers for myself and have learned how complex these issues can be. I have awful symptoms getting worse awaiting gallbladder op but not fully convinced it will be the answer either and the drs are not totally reassuring. There is something called post cholecystectomy syndrome but I guess your drs will have looked into that already in your case. There can be troubles with the bile ducts after gb removal, again I guess these might have been found if you had them. Did you have a hiatal hernia? I have this and although my dr didn't think it should cause severe symptoms, from reading on here, lots of people do and it seems to occur with gb troubles. I am seeing a chiropractor who has identified some muscles and old injuries relating the the areas I have symptoms so it seems worth getting them worked on in case it helps me, but too early to say, only been once. Then I am trying strong probiotics as my digestion is also painful, again early days with this. Also on colpermin although not dx with IBS as such, this helps me a bit. Some ppl swear by castor oil packs on abdo to help with pain - not tried this either but use aromatherapy oil blend on abdo and this does help a bit. Sorry not much help but good luck x
    • Posted

      Hi Cynthia

      Thenks for the response. I have to say that my gallbladder showed nbo signs of stones or sludge but I and the dovs all thought it might be the cause of my pain so out it came. I also had a hiatus hernia which they repaired but it too was not the cause. I take probiotics every morning and really do watch my diet, but at the moment anything that passes my lips causes pain.  This is the worst it has been and I am convinced there is a problem somewhere, probably with my bile duct. I have asked my doc to refer me to St Marks hospital in Harrow as they have a reputation for excellence in the gastroenterology field. I really do not know what else to do. I have holidays booked and trips out and I am scared witless to go anywhere. when I get attacks, I am totally incapacitated. I dread air travel or long train journeys in case it happens.  Do you have attacks which do this to you? I have seen chirpractors, reiki healers acupuncturists etc etc all to no avail. Good luck with your efforts. I really do think there should be more research into this phenomenon as so many people seem to be suffering with it.

    • Posted

      Hi Caro, seems like you have been unlucky to have had 2 ops with no relief and still not resolved. It has not been a typical gall bladder story for me, although I have stones and many symptoms shared by others with attacks, my pain has been more chronic and constant and on the middle to left rather than rhs and acute/ related to fatty food etc. For me the constant nausea, terrible gas and bloating and vagus/ giddy attacks, exhuastion from little sleep were incapacitating - only had occasional severe pain. I already did not eat very fatty foods or big meals due to past indigestion and acid, which dr thought was due to H pylori (treated and gone) and the harsh antibiotics I believe did mess up stomach biochemistry. Hence the probiotics.

      Since scans and tests (mostly clear) they found stones on the ultrasound and h hernia on CT (plus a small diverticula).

      Like me, I see you have been very proactive trying out all possible sources of help, all very frustrating and expensive I should think. I agree it all needs much more research, but we all know the politics and economics involved. I am struggling to eat solids and just feel unwell all the time, yet bloods and tests do not indicate anything major. Your life is on hold with these conditions indeed. Have yr drs looked into sphincter of oddi dysfunction? Apparently can be a problem post surgery for a few folk, according to stuff I have read. (I am an ex worker in some health research fields and former nurse, hence thirst for info, though in no way did I know much about this sort of thing before and maybe not much more now, it seems so complicated). Anyway apols for the long post and I wish you success in your search, let us know how things go. x

    • Posted

      I too had H Pylori which was treated with antibiotics, and as for Sphincer of Oddi, I saw a doctor in Harley st who said I had type 3. Other doctors since have dismissed this as I don't have the nausea and vomiting associated with this. I do try to eat sparingly and mostly foods which are supposedly easy to digest, but lately even cereal, and white fish and veggies cause pain. I think I am an expert too as I have had this for so long and seen so many doctors. I lived in France for nearly 5 years and they too were baffled. Endoscopies and colonoscopies all proved negative as do most blood tests although my liver function is spiked when having an attack.  If there was a pill I could take as soon as it comes on, which is quite suddenly , then I could bear it, but nothing works quickly if at all. I guess there are worse things to suffer from but this does need research as it is so life limiting.
    • Posted

      H Pylori is being researched a bit now and it seems it may have wider health effects than used to be thought, strange how many people have had all these things going on, wonder if some link? I agree with you if there was some remedy, even just to relieve symptoms, it would be a real breakthrough, if only someone would fund research.
  • Posted

    i cant understand why they took out your gallbladder if there was no sludge or stones, didnt they do a scan first?

    if you do try the apple cider vinegar. make sure you get the correct one as it has to have the mother in it. and its best to be cold pressed and organic. i get bratts organic apple cider vinegar. a huge bottle costs about £7 from amazon. i put  4 teaspoons in a tall glass of water with some slices of lemon and slices of orange and some chopped ginger. its really very nice if you make it into a tall drink. i just sip it through the day. and if im going to have a meal i take quite a few gulps half and hour before eating. i very seldom take omperazole or anything for indegestion.im so sorry to hear that you have been in pain for 20 years. it must be terrible and with no one finding out whats wrong is worse. i have suffered so much with this gallbladder pain so i can imagine how your feeling. i feel for you. i hope you find an answer soon. keep in touch and let us know how you get on with the vinegar. please give it a try and its good for lots of things as well as digestion. as we are supposed to be acid in the stomach, good luck dear.💐🙏

    • Posted

      Thanks for your words of encouragement. I will certainly try the apple cider vinegar when things have quietened down a bit. 
  • Posted

    Hi Caro

    I am sorry to hear you are at your wits end. My husband hasn't had his gallbladder out yet, but he's due for surgery shortly. Your current symptoms are similar to symptoms he had in the past - which is why I'm replying to your post. I've noticed a pattern that determines whether my husband gets the symptoms - particularly the pain in the back and shoulder and acid reflux and bloating. He's spent two years making the decision to have his gallbladder removed so for the last two years I've read extensively everything I can get my hands on to try and help him avoid gallbladder attacks. 

    One thing I discovered is my husband went for weeks without stomach pain, shoulder pain, back pain and gallbladder attacks by avoiding specific foods -  not just fatty foods like doctors tend to advise people with gallbladder issues - but some non fatty foods as well.

    Initially he went on an elimination diet which is suggested for people with food intolerances/ food allergies then gradually reintroducing foods. In his case by elimating soy, and having  virtually no meat, wheat, lactose and corn  he rarely had gallbladder pain - and when he did get it he recovered quickly (until this latest episode at least).

    Furthermore some of the food he could eat that didn't cause pain is high in fat - like he had no problem with garlic oil, avocado oil or coconut oil - so I cooked freely with those. He also had no problem with eggs - providing they were boiled or poached (not fried or scrambled). Small quantities of butter were okay - but cream or margarine or any cooking oil or the fat from meat especially lamb or mince set him off. 

    Each episode of intense gallbladder pain in the last two years (except for the latest) occured when he "broke the food-intolerance/wrong fat rules".  One time he ate two hamburger patties his mum gave him and had a gallbladder attack requiring treatment at the ER;  another time he ate microwave popcorn in front of tele - same thing;(both foods have fat - but eating corn or meat even steamed or boiled used to make him bloated (indicating a food intolerance). So I I started to realize that the pain wasn't just triggered by fat - but fat in conjunction with the foods he's intolerant to - if that makes sense. 

    Keep in mind the foods you can tolerate Caro might be different to the foods he can tolerate. The whole link between food allergies and gallbladder/digestive issues/bloating is worth the look if you haven't explored it.  

    Treating "gallbladder issues" as a "food intolerance problem" rather than a "response to fat" problem has meant our family have eaten a lot of canned and plain baked fish (mostly salmon or trout) with no fancy sauces or breadcrumbs in the last couple of years. Also we've consumed a lot of salad greens, spinach, sweet potatoes, potatoes, eggs, lactose free milk, gluten free products, organic baked beans and black rice. We've discovered that none of these foods have caused bloating or gallstone pain for him - whereas even a hint of foods off the banned list - like cheese, soy, msg or a lot of food additives cause immediate bloating or pain which the ER doctors have diagnosed as "gallstone" pain.

    Back in the 1960's "Dr James C. Breneman"   showed that avoiding the foods they were allergic to prevented gallbladder attacks in his patients - and he claimed that's why what they do in hospital to this day works - it works because they take away all your food (including what you're allergic to), you're given IV fluids and not allowed to eat anything until the pain goes away - and  the pain goes awaay once the food you're allergic to has worked its way through your system. His research was overlooked or ignored by doctors - but people still write about it today.

    Another thing I stumbled upon was the importance of magnesium - and other minerals - in preventing gallbladder attacks - so perhaps this will help you with your pain caro - or help others on this forum who haven't had their gallbladders out yet and are willing to give it a try.  Basically the gist of the helpful article is - foods like beetroot, spinach, nuts, cocoa and pineapple are supposed to help with gallstone pain. But the author argues this is because they are high in minerals  - in particular they all have magnesium and manganese in them - and the author claims this is why they work on gallbladder pain. So maybe they'll work on your symptoms too.(Extending the author's claims it also means that other nutritious foods like Moringa might also be helpful for preventing or reducing "gallbladder pain".) The article also suggests that if the body is deficient in minerals and nutrients it affects bile production - so this means foods which prevent absorption of minerals e.g. white flour, grains, some legumes and sugar need to be avoided.  You could try easing on sugar and fructose (as though you are allergic to them) and see if it helps with your pain - also ease off or eliminate gluten on a trial basis because gluten damages the lining of the GI tract in celiacs and non-celiacs alike and the inflammation causes pain.

    It's disconcerting to know that my husband may be having his gallbladder removed in vain - because like you he has he has been told he has no sludge in  it. An ultrasound showed he has  four +  stones one is 9mm the others are 2-3mm - although the doctor in the ER did another ultrasound and said he couldn't see any stones.This recent much longer attack (we think it was triggered by an omelette someone else prepared) has swayed him over (çoz he's at his wits end too) - and he has decided to follow the doctors' advice after two years and have his gallbladder removed - mostly because they have told him the attacks he is getting will only get worse and his stones might damage other organs. He still intends to keep eating the way we've been eating for the past two years though when he has his gallbladder removed, because he knows how much better he feels when he avoids the foods like soy, milk, wheat, fatty meat and corn. 

    May God guide you  in your search for the underlying cause of your pain Caro-

    In particular I urge you (and others on this site) to look into food intolerance - and see if you can identify foods that cause inflammation in your body.I used to think people who claimed they had food intolerances/ food sensitivities were hypochondriacs - but now I know from observing my husband's pain attacks that avoiding certain foods can make an amazing difference to someone's overall health and well-being.

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  • Posted

    Hey there, I know its been several years since your post. I'm having the same problem. I call it "flare ups". Been dealing with the pain for the last 6 years. I've had all kinds of surgeries (neck, gallbladder) trying to help. Every bloodwork is normal etc. Just recently in E.R. during a flare up they found a cyst on my pancreas. Sent back to G.I. Doctor. Look up Sphincter of Oddi Dysfunction. For some reason it hits mainly women in their 40+ and people that have had their gallbladders removed.

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