Have you tried Selenium?

Well if it was "white muscke disease" the vet would give us selenium + vit E shots and soon we would be literally up and running... One more thing to try...can't be that bad. 

I agree anything is worth a try. you dont if it works or not if you dont try

vets it is then race you

That rings a bell....I was told to take vit E by one of the ortho consultants I saw back when I had my accident - he said to buy the oil capsules, take one orally and break another open and massage the oil into the scars etc.  Haven't taken them for a while, I seemed to get to the point of so many supplements i hadnt a clue which was or wasn't working.  I took selenium years ago for my arthritis in my thumbs but one GP said it wasnt worth the effort as very few people are selenium deficient and it had only gained popularity because of its supposed antioxidant properties at a time when it was all the rage to find things to fight free radicals etc (sounds a bit like a protect group lol).  Interesting to note its stated benefits in animal welfare - I sometimes wish I was my cat purely that he gets seen same day by his 'doctor' and gets a 20 minute full examination each time - very unlike the GP system!  I may just put vit E back on the list.  Dont think I'll bother with the selenium as apparently the sort of food I eat is full of it, so I'm probably getting my full daily allowance in my diet.  Thanks Teresa for the interesting info.

 Yes! Aren't our cats so lucky! Food on the table, clean sheets... loving family...

The proponents of selenium say that our soild are depleted of it so our food aren't nurient rich anymore. Anyway, i've put i on my supplements list for this month and as you said it's good for thyroid too so..

Thanks a lot Charlotte. What do you reckon would be "too much"?

As far as dicussingwith the dr: forget about it! Standard doctors know virtually nothing about nutrition and minerals...

Thank you for in the info charlottee I was thinking of buying some but before I do Im going to check with my gp 1st. Ive had enough side affects with other drugs to last me a lifetime gentle hug

The NHS website states Taking 0.35micrograms/ug or less a day of selenium supplements is unlikely to cause any harm.

The RDA seems to be 55 MICROgrams /ug per day but dont forget you are going to get some from food also. The tolerable upper limit is 400 MICROgrams /ug per day but i would never go that high.

I will attach a list of food values to another comment so you can see what you may get depending on your diet.

 

Here is a food list for selenium rich foods.

Ive just started taking a new multivit which unlike many others doesnt have massive amounts of certain vitamins. I dont like going to far over 100% rda as i know food provides alot of what we need and i want to just top up. It also has prebiotics included and i got mine from Sainsburys for just under £5.00 for 30 day supply and so far I have not reacted to them, alot of high does supplements ive tried to take make me feel unwell including the highly touted miracle supplement magnesium. Ive been taking seven seas multibionta, its early days so cant say i feel better at all but no bad reaction is good!

Many supplements avalable on health shops are 100ug. I believe it's a resonable dosing to start with and after some time just take it every other day. What do you think?

multibionta vitality is actually the full name. Below is the ingreedients.

Vitamin A 120 ?g RE 15

Vitamin D 5 ?g 100

Vitamin E 12 mg ?-TE 100

Vitamin K 22.5 ?g 30

Vitamin C 80 mg 100

Thiamin (Vitamin B1) 1.1 mg 100

Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 1.4 mg 100

Niacin 16 mg NE 100

Vitamin B6 1.4 mg 100

Folic Acid 200 ?g 100

Vitamin B12 2.5 ?g 100

Biotin 50 ?g 100

Pantothenic Acid 6 mg 100

Calcium 120 mg 15

Magnesium 57 mg 15

Iron 5 mg 36

Zinc 3.33 mg 33

Manganese 0.4 mg 20

Selenium 30 ?g 55

Chromium 25 ?g 63

Iodine 100 ?g 67

Coenzyme Q10 2 mg *

TRIBION HARMONIS PROBIOTIC CULTURES 10 million *

Lactobacillus gasseri PA 16/8,

Bifidobacterium bifidum MF 20/5,

Bifidobacterium longum SP 07/3

You know that one of the things that doctors won't tell you is that Vit Bs should be taken in the morning or at least til lunch time otherwise they interfere with sleep.

Sometimes it's not the supplements that aren't working but the way we take them or combine them. Thanks a lot for the list!

very helpful list Charlotte, thank you very much for posting.  Other than the meat products, I eat most of the food on that list, more of the vegetables and lentils/pulses than the rest, so I probably get sufficient selenium through my diet.   I have been researching those elements that naturally decrease with age or are not easily absorbed as we get older, seems mostly the B vits and calcium.  Teresa's point is very good about making sure we know 'how' to take a supplement and 'when' as some react badly with others and conversely some are essential for the absorption of others....this is mostly way too complicated for the average person and doctors are absolutely hopeless at advising on vitamins and supplements.  A good dietitian would be helpful but just try getting referred to one via the GP - impossible.

I think taking a good multi vit as insurance before you start aging is a good idea but super dosing on specific vits can be as dangerous as street drugs. No supplements are FDA tested and can be contaminated and if you can get all your nutritional needs met with food then great as that is what was intended, my diet is by no means 1st class.

Eggs are brilliant in being nutrient dense and should be inlcuded in your diet often, salmon is the most potent in omega 3's and should be eaten 3 times a week. Avacado is a brilliant good fat rich food. Aside from that lost of green veg and lots of colourful veg. Eat healthy wholegrains but not loads of them and try to avoid refined carbs and sugary foods/drinks. Juices are not actually that good for you unless your juicing greens YUCK. Fibre helps slow down the rate of sugar absorbtion so eating something high in fibre with a sugary snack can stop a insulin spike and cinammon also helps control blood sugars. Meat wise turkey is good in the evening as it helps you sleep better as it has tryptophan in it, red meat thats not really fatty and not over cooked is good for B vits and iron, chicken obviously as its high in protein and low in fat. Bananas are good for lots of people for stomach settling and make a great healhty snack. Yoghurt the plain greek kind is good for you. Avoid aspartame, fizzy drinks all times and most importantly let yourself eat what you want every now and again, dont deprive yourself, as long as you eat rubbish as an occasional thing and not daily then theres no probem with some chocolate or sweets or bread etc.

There is a great website called whfoods which gives you the nutritious breakdown of food and explinations of how such foods are beneficial along with full info on what all the vits/minerals do for us.

thank you charlotte for the list most helpful gentle hug

very good advice charlotte, particularly about overdosing on vitamin supplements.  Here in the UK very few people are seriously vitamin deficient and particularly those who eat a healthy diet.  Overdoses of some vitamins can be seriously dangerous, others not quite so.  Vitamin A and iron for example are life threatening if a severe overdose is taken.  Children under 5 are particularly prone to iron overdose.  We're at the mercy of advertising on the back of the worldwide craze to 'quick fix' dietary deficiencies instead of eating a balanced healthy diet.  Diet products, 'health' products, you name it there's a miracle preparation for it.  

Unfortunately the NHS is under siege and not many of us get sufficient time or understanding from our GP service but if asked specifically they usually will make the effort to listen to concerns about vitamin levels and hopefully give good advice.

The nhs should make a point of testing us all when we are healthy so they have a personal guideline of a persons vit levels when they are not sick, then when we get sick they can use it as a reference and have some idea if that is causing our problems. I think they should do yearly mots to try and prevent issues rather than do sod all when we get sick.

They maybe pushed and underfunded but that's because they have the most ridiculous policies, useless Drs, terrible admin staff and waste time like no ones business. They wait till problems are so severe or chronic that not even Dr house could fix them, if they jumped on things asap I think they could halt progression in a lot of cases, if they sent us to the right Drs, did the right tests from the get go they would save a lot of money and wasted time. Gps are just booking agents, consultants are just salesmen for the drug companies and I can't say I've ever met a Dr that's actually concerned with how u feel or the pain ur in. Ur a number and as long as they can sign off at the end of the day that's there job done.

Sorry for the rant but I get so angry that the people we trust with our lives can't even see us as human beings, unfortunately they are the only ones with the access to tests and meds etc. they moan constantly about resources being drained but it's the gps who send us round the block of different specialists when actually we are a whole person and if it hurts in ur legs, arms and stomach they might be connected and u don't need to see 3 different Drs.

Sorry, I'm having a very painful day and am very grumpy which I guess is apparent!!!

Yes but do know that for eg. many people with fibro also have "restless legs syndrome" (RLS), which a neurologic condition, and one its causes is iron deficiency?

You spoke everyone's mind out! 

Besides all that you mention I believe the problems is that conventional doctors learn virtually nothing of nutrition in university. They're 99% biased to meds and chemicals.

You should see the incredulous looks I got when I told my doctors I’ve stopped my bleeding( for ten 2nd time now) just with iron  and Vit C supplementation! It doesn’t work for everyone but is some cases it does.

BRAVO Charlotte - you hit the nail right on the head! I totally agree with every word you've said.  I too get so angry at our GP system, it's so hit and miss.  I attend a large group practice, increasing in size all the time.  It's a factory environment.  There are some 10 - 12 GP's plus admin and nursing staff.  Without exception, the GP's are totally only interested in covering their arse, writing a prescription and getting you out of the door in 3 mins flat.  The annual 'MOT' system you mention would be so beneficial and that kind of pro-active approach would in the end save an enormous amount of time, effort AND money, and, more importantly, probably prevent serious problems occurring in a lot of people.  The current system is so short sighted, more interested in 'fire fighting' instead of proper health planning and prevention.  I have yet to meet a doctor that isn't arrogant in their attitude to patients - they know best, we know nothing and here's a pill now go away.  

Our surgery, like many others I guess, won't let you discuss more than one symptom at a single appointment.  How ridiculous is that.  Many illnesses are multi faceted and by not treating us wholistically, as you say, we end up using even more resources by traipsing round various specialists for each element.  My GP last week latched onto my brain fog issues and wanted to refer me to the 'memory clinic', I had to be really assertive and firm to explain I did NOT have memory issues, I had problems focussing, probably because my brain was too busy concentrating on the bloody pain.  So next she referred me to a neurologist - just got the letter through today - November appointment! Hopeless.  I don't believe I have neurological issues, other than obviously my pain is recognised by the brain.  But it got me out of the chair and the building and she could tap into her screen that I'd been dealt with.  I dont blame you for being grumpy, my flipping cat gets better medical treatment than I do and to be honest, my friends chickens do too!

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes .....agree, sign at the botom and must say it's = in here. Appointments can be from 10 to 20 minutes you don't need to discuss just one symptom but in practice you can't discuss much more and they push you out of the door ASAP. There are some subsystems within the NHS that are little bit better here (when they make parnerships with Health ONGs and Charities) but the results all end up being similar because doctors don't work in teams.

That's really a capital sin: which compamy , enterprise or institution would work without teamwork? And yet that's what's done with health... how stupid can it be? I have lost of stories but come to mind two:

The phsysical therapy dr: "Doctors don't talk to each other".

Me: Really? What to they expect to acomplish like that?

The dermatologist:  (about medical specialities) These are compartmentalised systems. 

Me : Well, my body isn't.

 

I’m always clashing with the system and now (how tiring! ) I put everything on paper, date it, sign it, hand it to them and keep a copy.  They don’t like it but I do it anyhow.   XX

Hi loxie my gp sent me to the memory clinic, she thought I may have the start of alzimers I went to the memory clinic had tests done. she said it wasnt alzimers and that she ad seen 8 people with fibro we all had the same problems. she put it down to fibro and the depression. take care gentle hug hope you have a good weekend

Yes its a total sham, Drs have thier place which is in life saving emergency situations aside from that i find them to be pretty useless!

The other thing that irks is the tests, they are taken as an absolute yet ive slowly discovered that half of them arent true tests or arent even reliable not to mention the possibility of human error. 

Early on in this process I was so tired and i went to drs and had the normal tests inlcuding iron, I went back months later, broke down as i wasnt improving and a different dr told me the iron test they did is like a surface test but they can dig deeper and check iron levels properly (I assume the difference is between free levels in your blood and plasma testing), when they did this i was severely anemic and needed supplements but they had left me months without them, i was 1 point away from needing transfusions as they didnt do the full test in the first place. There is loads of these tests which they tell you that you have normal results yet truly you could be deficient. The same goes for thyroid testing, they only really test TSH which is an indicatior but there is like 5 seperate tests to really get a complete picture. Lymes test is very very unreliable, UK drs wont admit that but US drs seem to admit it. There is a more relaible test but NHS dont use that. The list goes on.

The funny thing is the only thing we can do is educate ourselves and all the medcial websites include NHS advise is to educate yourself on your own condition etc but when you see a dr and tell him you know some information or you read about this or that they instantly get thier heckles up like they should be the only people in the world that can know information and your some crazy person by reading up on it yourself!! 

Perhaps we should see if any vets will take us instead!!!

FYI ive gone private a couple of times also at much expense and they seem to be equally as useless and equally as arrogant so apart from nicer settings and quicker appointment times there is not much additional benefit.

 

Hi charlotte we may get some where with a vet? drs just dont seem to have the time, and like you I went private on 1 occassion the woman I saw wasnt nice she was very up herself a part from the fast appointment and as you say nice settings thats the only 2 things that were good about it gentle hug

Good for you Teresa, doesnt it make more sense finacially, time wise etc to have 1 long appointment to discuss all issues than have 10 to discuss 10 different things. 10 times less work for the reception, 10 times less dr notes etc and then we dont havr to explain ourselves 10 times not to mention our time our fuel etc.

They are wanting to put a new thing in place where after every hospital visit they give you a bill of what your treatment cost, you dont have to pay but just so you know......fine for the drunks that fall over or fight on a night out and end up in hospital but for everyone who needs help thats just a bit mean, its either gonna shame people so they dont get help or its gonna be the GP'S fault for sending you to a department you dont need and then another bill when you get sent to the correct dr. 

Thats exactly what its like, you think your getting the best but they are the same drs just moonlighting in a fancy office!!

I totlayy agree with you their the private appointment didnt get me any where a part from lighter in my pocket? gentle hug hope you have a good weekend

Thanks you too, i have my partners mums bday party this weekend and im having a bad patch at the moment so its the usual thing of having to force myself to dress up, try and hide my grimace as a smile and pretend to not be a grumpy mare who just wants to go home!

I wish there were certain things we didnt have to be forced to do out of loyalty but it would seem so rude to not to go.

oh I love that comment about your body not being a 'compartmentalised system', I'm going to remember that one (or at least try to )

 

Don’t get me wrong : 10 minutes or  20 minutes it’s all the same. Doctors spend 85% of that time writing on their computers and they almost don’t look at you face. Push, push…

For you to have an idea how everything's is being so well orchestrated all over this EU I’ll tell you that they’ve already started doing that hospital bill exhibit here. I’m okay with that, no problem: as long as the problems are sorted out it’s fine.  

That's exactly what I think my doctor felt.  I know I don't have alzheimers.  I can be typically 'blonde AND senior' at times but it's not memory loss or confusion, it's a sort of brick wall to get the mind to move forward over an obstacle of some sort.  I'd rather they use the money spent on referring me for an unnecessary neurologist appointment on research into something that really works for this condition.  What Charlotte says is so true about tests for tests sake and most of them aren't thorough enough to detect the true position.  I was told by an american doctor that the thyroid tests we do here are worse than useless.  It's often not how much thyroxine is present it's how effective the body is at processing it that's the real issue and our test in the UK only apparently tests for volume not absorption.  What a disgusting waste of resources and leaving people in life threatening positions, like charlotte with her iron levels.  

 

Yeah, the conversation was about my symptoms of thyroid dysfunction that had some dermatological symptoms, hair loss, weak nails etc. and i questioned her about it . That's when she said that systems are compartmentalised, meaning: go to another doctor – you’re done here. . 

I totlaly agree with what you and charlotte say its not very comforting to know that americans think our thyroid testing is useless. you like to think we are in safe hands and they know what their doing our drs specialists but Im beginning to wonder? take care gentle hug

I know that feeling well had to go and see the mother in law last week, really didnt want to go didnt feel up to it didnt want to move. pushed my self and went just for hubbys sake. if he goes to see her this weekend hes on his own Im in too much pain very grumpy irritable miserable not great company? having a bad week hope next week is better we can but hope . hope all goes well for the party you have a good weekend take care gentle hug

Thanks Kaz, hope u have a good weekend too. Fingers crossed next week is easier, althought i prefer the summer i get certain aggravated symptoms in the thick muggy air!

I specifically went to my doctors because of hair loss issues and skin problems.  I saw a couple of different GP's, one who is a dermatologist and both just shrugged their shoulders and blamed it on 'age'.  I gained a lot of weight over a short time so went back and moaned again and they did some bloods, apparently thyroid was 'normal' - which left me floundering to be honest.  Then recently, a couple of years on, I was chatting to some friends in the states and one who's a doctor said about our rubbish way of testing thyroid function.  I'd got to the point of thinking the hair loss may just be yet another fibro symptom but really a lot of my fatigue, dermatology issues and particularly hair loss could well be thyroid or hormone related.  I'm sure they're of the opinion that once we reach 50 we just have to 'put up and shut up'  I'm so angry about it.  Why the hell should we suffer when we don't have to.  I'm going to pester the hell out of them from now on until they actually listen.  I feel some late nights on the pc getting evidence may be on the cards

I  dont mind hot weather so long as it isnt tooo hot I dont like it when its humid take care gentle hug

go for it loxie give em what for Im fed up of us all being over looked and getting no where fast gentle hug

I'm a bit of a 'mouse' when it comes to doctors etc.  I do rather let them walk all over me but I'm so sick of being sick with no practical suggestions.  I'll definitely do some serious research into thyroid problems.  I actually remember saying at the time that I was disappointed it wasnt thyroid as that would shed light on so many unresolved problems and the doctor was astounded I was happy to have a 'normal' result.....yeh right, normal = we havent a clue go away and lump it.

ooops typo - 'wasnt happy' not 'was happy'

Oh that sounds like me, the confused looks ive shot them when tests have been normal, and they are always like "isnt that great news" ......No its not bloody great news, great news is me having something u have a proper answer and a cure for.

 

Hi Loxie, Some time ago a lady by the user name of sylvia17461 posted here on Dr. Lowe key work for fibro root causes. I checked it out ad indeed his work  strikes not a chord but several with me. Do you know his work/theory about fibro? He advocates that most of the times fibro is rooted in thyroid resistance problems... that's why the results don't show up in standard tests. Now i'm trying to convince my endocrinologist to read it... not an easy  task ! T

Hi Teresa How are you? hope your not in too much pain. hope you have a lovely weekend take care gentle hugs

Hi Karen, Thanks for asking. I'm drained and sore.  I've been to naturopathic doctor this week and he said that if I take his programme, I should be well by the end of the year. It's based on 2 supplements. I'm hoping and praying... Have a great weekend too. XXX

good luck Teresa, here's hoping its successful for you.  Do keep us posted on how its going.  I've ditched all pharmaceuticals, they dont really help and they make me so ill, its not worth it, so natural remedies are the way forward for me too.

Very interesting about thyroid resistance, deep down I'm convinced it has major implications but here in the UK they will only test for thyroxine levels and if 'normal' then nothing else will be done.  In the USA they do more intensive testing to see what the absorption rates are and whether there is any resistance - which often shows up hidden issues.  It infuriates me that there is a possibilit of something so simple being a root cause yet we, the patient, are powerless to push them into exploring it.  grrrr - I feel myself ranting again

H Teresa I hope prey it works for you  we need something to work for us will be interesting to see how you get on.gentle hugsxxx

I'll keep you posted. XX

Hi Loxie. I've just done a battery of thyroid and other homones tests and there are "no signs of dysfuntion". No even any signs of thyroid resistance. Cool, I guess should be happy... So that's why I've decided to give a go to this naturopathic doctor and treatment. I'm on cocktail of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and some ampoules of "ozone therapy"... a fancy name for ozone processed olives... I had to laugh at this one. I just hope it works. I'll let you all know. Take care.

 xx

the mind boggles at ozone processed olives - oh well olives are good for you anyhow.  I hear what you say about hearing 'all is normal' - my GPs are always very miffed that I'm not jumping for joy when yet another test comes back negative or normal - I guess I should be happy there's nothing life threatening but it just leaves the problem unresolved again.  Sounds silly but I'm sure one day I'll actually be glad to hear I've got something specific and rare - at least then they'll treat it properly.