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Insomnia question

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MarilynH
MarilynH

I have had insomnia for years, but it had gotten worse the past few months and to the point where I coudn't go to sleep at all. I finally tried the smallest dosage of melatonin and it worked. I used melatonin a few times and found other things that work too, chamomile tea, Valerian capsule, magnesium, etc.. My problem is that when I do get a few hours of sound sleep, I feel a sense of mental detachment the next day. it feels awful. Any idea why I feel this? Some call it depersonalization?

0 likes, 10 replies

10 Replies

  • DClassic
    DClassic MarilynH

    Posted

    Hi Marilyn,

    I've felt that mental detachment before, but that was when my psychiatrist had me try Zyprexia for my sleep problems (apparently some use a low dose of it off-label for insomnia). I felt like a zombie the next day. Needless to say, I stopped using that one pretty quick.

    Consider what meds you are taking - what is covered under 'etc'?. Maybe some have a side effect. I know benadryl capsules put me out, but gave me an awful hangover feeling the next day.

    Also, be careful with Valerian. I asked my doc about that, and he recommended I try other things first. Just because something is 'herbal' or 'all-natural', doesn't mean it can't have some strong effects.

    Lastly, make sure you don't double up on drugs that have the same mechanism of action. Like if you take valerian and something else that makes you drowsy by the same mechanism in the brain, the sedative effect may be too strong and could last into the next day.

    Good luck!

    • MarilynH
      MarilynH DClassic

      Posted

      I took a 450mg Valerian capsule last night about 6:30pm and then one more about 10pm I think. Maybe that is what is making me feel weird. That is the only thing I took last night. I did have a big mug of chamomile tea, but I've been drinking chamomile tea for a year or more... daily.

      When I do take other supplements, I am sure to research and only take the ones together that are recommended. Then I take the smallest dosage.

    • DClassic
      DClassic MarilynH

      Posted

      Hmmm, that doesn't seem like too high a dose. Well, consider how long you have been taking it and how long you've had the strange disconnected feeling the next day. It could be that Valerian has a particularly strong effect on you, so you are over-sedating before bed, and there is some leftover for the next day. Something similar happened to me with benadryl - for some people, that does nothing, but it put me under in minutes for that night and made me useless the entire next day.

      I have also heard that sedatives provide a less natural and less restful kind of sleep. I think their primary purpose is to put you to sleep, then let the body's natural sleep mechanisms take over. This is a guess, I haven't done research to back this up, but maybe if the Valerian is lasting too long into the night, your sleep is less restful and that is giving you the strange next day feeling. Maybe try backing off the dosage a bit.

      If Valerian turns out to be no good for you, melotonin is a good option. In my experience, it has a less powerful sedative effect, but it activates the body's natural sleep mechanisms rather than knocking you out. Because of that, I personally had no hangover feeling the next day when using melotonin.

      Also, I love chamomile tea too, but depending on how strong your bladder is, be careful. I used to take a big mug of that too in the hour before bed, but then I slept restlessly and had dreams about needing to urinate...but as with all sleep-related issues and fixes, it depends on you personally.

  • MarilynH
    MarilynH

    Posted

    I did do some research on Valerian and posted a link here to the site I found, but the moderators haven't approved it yet, so that comment isn't here. I found info that said some people do react differently to Valerian and I think maybe that's me.. plus I sleep so poorly and keep waking up, so that alone will also make me feel a little crazy. I haven't taken Valerian since your first response and I did feel better the next day, but still a tad detached.  Maybe it's just all part of not sleeping well? I'm so tired of this. My husband goest to sleep in minutes after getting into bed and he only wakes up once during the night he said. I do see my naturopath MD  on Monday, so maybe he can help me.
  • MarilynH
    MarilynH

    Posted

    P.S. I have used melatonin. I used the smallest possible dosage, 1/8 of a 1 mg tablet. The first time I used it I don't even remember falling asleep and I slept for 6 hours without waking up. The second time I used the same dosage, I didn't have the same good effect. I have used melatonin a few times, but have read that if you use it a lot, it can become ineffective and can cause hormonal changes. I do think I will use it tonight though. I feel really lousy today. I slept last night, maybe 5 or 6 hours, but I kept waking up. It is so true that lack of sleep can drive you crazy!
    • DClassic
      DClassic MarilynH

      Posted

      On the melotonin, its true that anything can be addictive. Maybe melotonin every other night or something would be okay. Ask you doctor. Also, there are much worse sleep aid from the standpoint of side effects / addiction.

      I'm wondering if you have seen a therapist about this yet, since you say its been a problem for quite some time. I found that a therapist was very helpful in my case. While sleep issues are very individual, I think every insomniac should learn to reduce stress and anxiety. A month or so ago I was having a good discussion with someone else on this forum. Maybe something here could inspire you: https://patient.info/forums/discuss/the-fear-of-not-getting-back-to-sleep-depression-anxiety-hell--414073

  • MarilynH
    MarilynH

    Posted

    I have read several books on sleep issues written by doctors and it seems my circadian rhythm is out of whack, plus I was on the computer too much, so my melaonin levels weren't as high as they should have been at night and my cortisol levels, which should be low, were through the roof. I did the cortisol test and my levels are really messed up. I went to that site you posted a link to and read just a little bit real quickly, I'll go back tomorrow and read it all, but that person said she started filling her head full of negative thoughts and that just makes the insomnia worse. Ruminating is a bad thing to do. I was doing and didn't know it  until one of my kids brought it up. He's an RN and he has sleep issues too, so he was telling me some things I needed to do to improve myself and one was to get rid of the negative thoughts in my head... and stop making bedtime seem so fearful and like a battle ground. I still find myself starting to ruminate bad thoughts, but now I know to stop them. I was supposed to see my doctor tomorrow, but his secretary called, said he was sick, so we need to reschedule. He's a good doctor and doesn't just write out prescriptions. He trys to get to the root of the problem and fix that. I'm thinking that he will agree that my circadian rhythm is all messed up. I have hypothyroidism and adrenal issues too, and I think that is also affecting me and making my sleep worse. I will find out when I see my doctor. I do so appreciate all input here. I have already learned some new things that will help me!!
    • DClassic
      DClassic MarilynH

      Posted

      Yeah, bed being a source of anxiety is a huge problem. Turning bed from a scary place to a relaxing place is very important.

      One of the things that helped me do this was to learn how to manage being tired. Things like getting up and walking around, or snacks that are good for energy - healthy ones, like fruit or small portions of nuts. Even caffeine has a place, in moderation and no later than lunchtime. 

       

      Then, when I get into bed, I remind myself how I managed to be effective that day despite being tired. That reduces the anxiety a bit, so I sleep a bit better. Its good to find things to help build up a positive attitude.

      Aromas are also helpful for some people. I heard that lavender mist spray can be relaxing for some people. I tried spraying that onto my pillow and sheets. It made them smell nice, but I don't know if it really made me more relaxed. But again, it depends on the person.

      Hypothyroidism and adrenal issues ... I'm sorry to hear about that. Those I don't have experience with, but yeah that will probably affect sleep too. I think those are anxiety related as well, so reducing stress will help there also.

      Circadian rythym messed up ... I don't know. Unless you are a shift worker, jet-lagged, or routinely staying up too late, as in every night for a month, I think that's hard to do to yourself. But I haven't studied that very much, so your doctor should know better.

    • MarilynH
      MarilynH DClassic

      Posted

      I have done extensive research on circadian rhythm, online and books written by MDs and mine is totally messed up and backwards. Looking back, it started when I was working night shifts years ago and I have been a night owl ever since. The last book I read on insomnia said that some people are naturally night owls and some are naturally morning larks, so just accept it and deal with it. I have now down that and am no longer stressed out at bed time and now my sleep is improving! I also had to adjust some of my daily habits so that they don't affect my sleep.
    • DClassic
      DClassic MarilynH

      Posted

      Ah, so you did work night shifts. Yeah, it makes more sense now. But I think if you keep tightly to a regular schedule, you can shift back to a more typical sleep pattern. There might be meds which target that, besides melotonin.

      Also, I'm glad to hear things are getting better. Keep working on it! 

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