Do you believe people are born bad or are all born good and become bad?

I'm glad you have religion and faith I don't have those things but I don't totally agree with your last comment.... Surely all are worthy of your heaven until they do something to prove otherwise? 

If there is a god why did he take my 13 week old sister yet he lets rapists, pedophiles, murderers and terrorists + much more live. Why do evil people like the Korean leader live such a rich life while oppressing and controlling people while so many good natured innocent people die sfrom starvation or are murdered by more evil warped people that your god allows to live. I hope I haven't offended it's just the questions that come to my head when people talk about their great god. But I suppose no one is perfect......

Hi Shelles!

I believe that for some, they are born into a life that not only their parents cannot recover, but they,  themselves, will never recover. So, does this explain if they are born good and become bad?  Maybe.

However, looking into the innocence of a child and knowing if they were given every chance in the world, it doesn't guarantee goodness.  I believe it's who they surround themselves with.  Even bad people can turn into good. But they were good to begin with, right?

Shelles, if you don't have "faith" what keeps you going?  Religion and faith aren't one of the same.  Religion can be bad as well.  Faith on the otherhand, where has faith led, only good, right?

Frustrated

Hi  Doc!

I see where you're coming from and it's a good insight on this topic.  Hope is always a good sign that one will find good or do well.  When one loses hope, they tend to give up and "blame" others or just not try anymore. 

The bit about cells dividing, good point.  I've never related to that so I am happy to say, I've opened myself up to yet, new learning!

Now get some sleep, young man!  lol

Frustrated

My two beautiful girls keep me going. They, I feel are my purpose the reason I'm here. What else is there?

Also I believe children that are given too much can turn bad and children that aren't given enough can turn bad (I mean love in whatever form the parents give or don't give)

Shelles ~

In response as to why God took your 13 week old sister and the Korean leader live a rich life.  One, I'm very sorry for your loss, that had to be extremly difficult.  I won't attempt to show you how I see this because it would come across as a lack of compassion.

However, as far as the Korean leader, perhaps his day will come.  Some stand so high and almighty they don't see beyond their tips  of the nose.  Just think about the Judges and lawyers and policemen.  When they are at their peek, they are great, but when they fall, they are also tossed into the pits of hell with the other murderers, pedophiles and terrorists.  Pehaps Kim Jong Un's day will come.  You have to believe the world is watching him like a hawk and with every means possible, won't allow him to take down the world.  I have "faith" that things will work out and those who are suffering presently at the hands of KJU, may rejoice when they are seated in the right place.

Also, "our" God is available to anyone.  Our God isn't exclusive to just a few.  If one opens their heart and lets him in, they will see and feel quite differently.  One has to take that step, alone.  No one can help or take it for them.

Frustrated

I know how you probably see it and the saying "god picks the best ones to be by his side" I was five yes old when I was given that explanation as to why my baby sister was gone. The prayer I was taught to say"gentle Jesus up above give Rebecca a all our love" She wasn't his to take she was ours. I've watched two amazing loving caring women loose their babies one after birth the other while still pregnant and I just can't understand why they should have to go thru that pain when they deserve so much happiness. I used to believe I used to read the bible but I lost belief that day. Do young but I knew.

Shelles ~

I hear you there, as both my girls gave me purpose.  However, because of some things that happened to me in my childhood, I gave up in many ways.  After having children, I knew what happened to me was not he norm an that it changed me in many ways.  It was when I realized this, I had to seek help from above.  I wanted the best for my girls and I knew if I wanted that, I had to be "MY" best.  I wasn't able to achieve that until I asked for help.  It was then, at my weakest moment, I chose to trust and was give love.  A love that I can pass on to my girls and now, my grandchildren.  Things will look brighter, but one has to trust and belief will follow.

Frustrated

Shelles ~

Again, I am so sorry for your loss.  Understand that "our" children aren't ours, they are ours to watch over.  I believe if people really grasped that, they would try harder to care for them.  I'm seeing you are a very caring person and care for your children as I have mine.  It's the "higher" almighty that brings one down to their knee which allows them to see closely that we are all precious and will all be 'gently given to Jesus above like your sister Rebecca".  Btw, that jingle is beautiful.  I've never heard it before but it's so fitting. 

I hope you get the opportunity to re-read the Bible and see if it "talks" to you.  If it still hasn't, perhaps it's still too early.  Just know by you loving and caring for your children, Rebecca is looking down to you and loving the mother you've become.  I mean that sincerely.

Frustrated

Thank you so much for noticing I'm a caring person my boyfriend gave me so much grief tonight because I walked to the supermarket and brought his sisters husband stuff for pain relief after he was injured In a rugby match he said why you doing it they wouldn't do it for you.i know he's right bit I don't give to receive  I'm so sorry that your childhood was not what you deserved but you've clearly not let that dictate your life you've taken control and for that you must be so proud. Thank you for your kind words and I'm glad you like my sisters prayer. But out of curiosity How can u say that our children are not ours? We create them and make them and raise them. Are we not our own either? I find religion can be so good for so many people but it can also be so bad. Jehovah's Witness on the mild end of the scale knock on my door weekly recruiting but why would I Join a religion that would let my children die rather than give them someone else's blood. The recent invasion of the IS. It's fanatics like that that give religion a bad name. They believe just like you but they take it to another level as Jehovah's do when they watch someone die because they won't allow them to take someone else's blood. I make my own choices

 right or wrong but I know they are mine not what a book tells me I should do. Don't get me wrong I'm not against religion. My 7yr old is a big believer she tells me off cos Im a non believer and but I tell her it' her that's my choice. I often read her stories from the bible I bought her because I want it to be her choice. Sometimes I really wish I could believe because then I would have someone. I'm glad you have someone and don't feel alone  

Hi Shelles ~

You say you don't care for religion, and I get that totally.  There's a difference in religion and believing.  Religion is for people to come together for the better understanding of God, Jesus Christ, God's son.  Believers do not have to join such a group because "our", "mine" is in my heart and only the son of God, Jesus Christ can see if it's a true belief or false witness.  I don't go to the "church" because of anything else but they turned my family off when the people passed around a volunteer basket asking for money.  Don't get me wrong, I realize that the church needs money to pay bills and such but when the priest looked at that basket and "shamed" everyone for not giving, he passed the basket around again (this is a parish well over 1,000 members) asking for us to dig deeper.  I gave to that parish every month as it was my responsibility to give and we could do that so I was happy to do so.  The money I gave was sent into the parish as a check, like one of the bills, I'd send it in via postal mail. Many, many parishioners gave money the exact same way.  For this priest to "shame" us was really the beginning of the end for us.  Second thing that happened, my youngest was making her first communion, my aunt (who is a beautiful seamstress) made both my daughters dresses.  My oldest was traditional, my youngest was to a point.  She just wasn't a veil type of girl.  So, my aunt found a beautiful hat and put veiling on it so support that theme.  In front of God and his witness' the priest said (mind you these kids are 1st graders at that time) in front of everyone including my entire family and extended family said, there will be NONE of this in the following years and pointed to my daughter.  She was mortified as she thought she was the most beautiful little girl ever...as all little girls should feel that way, especially when in a position of receiving the body of Christ for the first time.  There were no rules about this attire so no rules were broken.  I would have never put her in that position if there were rules against it.  This is the same priest that shamed his parishioners, too. 

hang on we can only type 8,000 letters so I'll finish in a 2 part

 

Part 2 ~

I had also given 10 yrs of my time (which I did willingly) teaching Catechism to 1st, 3rd and 6th graders.  I studied my time, my money, I was willing.  I didn't expect any favors, I just considered it my responsibility to walk the walk, so I gave my time for "religion".  After hurting momma bears cub, that was it for me, and sadly not only me, but my entire family.  Yes, he was a jerk. No all priest aren't like that but another story (short) they denied my husband's father a complete funeral because he didn't go to church.  He wasn't against church but my husband mother took care of that because his father was an extremly hard worker and they gave 10% or more to the parish every month.  That situation with my daugher combined with the hard feelings my family already had regarding my husbands father, no religion is worth sticking around if that's how you're treated.  Now, interesting, my husband's church and our church were two different entities, so two different priests.  SO, our "church" is within and we give monetary gifts to different entities that "we" as a family know it's a worthy cause.  Our hearts are ok with all this.

What I meant when I said "our children aren't ours, they are ours to watch over", is, if we are given the chance to have children, it's a gift from the good Lord.  All children are God's children, right? Therefore, we are watching over them for God with hopes that we rise above any affliction, mental or health and take charge and do what's right for our children.  The word "our" means Gods and our children but first and foremost, Gods through his son, Jesus Christ.  Does that make sense put that way?

In my opinion, the IS lost touch of what their beliefs are because muslims do believe in the Bible and do not believe in killing.  I'm not a muslim but have studied in ways they do.  So IS are definitely misguided with beliefs and I do believe now they are following the nemisis to God.  Its a sad thing that they actually "think" they are fighting in the name of Allah (God).  Know what I mean?

As far as making your own choices, it's good to do that and it's also ok if the "book" tells you so.  You are guided from right and wrong, correct?  I just believe you are where I was years ago not knowing how to take things to the next level.  Just release all your fears and turn them over to God through his son, Jesus Christ.  Now, the Jewish do not believe Jesus has actually come but that's an entirely different discussion.  It's ok for them to believe that, if that's what they want to.  No one is right and no one is wrong, know what I mean?  If you have a good heart and are doing everything out of the good, then, how can you be a bad person?  Not saying you are, just people in general.

Well, I'm starting to ramble and this is a lengthy post so I'll be trying my hardest to finally fall off to sleep.  Hope to hear from you, Shelles.

Frustrated

Shelles ~

One more quick thing.  Sticking around because of how the church treated people, well, strongly, I feel if anyone treats one wrong and puts anger or hatred into that person, that isn't a healthy thing and it's not going to put you right with the Lord.  Right?

Frustrated

That's  a good point. I would think it might depend on whose heaven it is. Like, who do you let into your house to stay with you always?

That is a supendous question Shellesmalley. I could give you my brief answer now. Even better, why not open a new discussion and let me and others answer you there. It is not a question that troubles the people supping up the gravy, but it does trouble the people who aren't and thant is nearly everybody. Les would give a proportion in scientific notation. I am limited to Mr Spock in Star Trek. Nearly everybody = 99.999999999% aproximately,said Mr Spock.

" Religion can be bad as well.  Faith on the otherhand, where has faith led, only good, right?"

I am with you almost 100%. So what's troubling me? you ask. In what, I reply. Faith needs to be expressed in something or someone.

Hi Shelles ~

How have you been.  You haven't posted anything for a while so I was curious as to the reasons.  Just getting busy with life? or no time to post  presently?

I hope all is well with you and that you're finding things a bit easier now that you've cleared your head with what may have been a jumble inside.

Let me know how you're getting along, please?

Frustrated

Thank you for thinking of me. Yes I've been very busy with work and my children. My head is always a jumble despite my medication and Counseling. but I try to keep it together as much as I can. I hope you are ok and got your answers / support from your post. Thanks again. Shelles.

Oh and I completely agree about your daughters attire I believe everyone should be able to express their personality through their choice of clothing. Little girls are beautiful no matter what they wear. confidence and inner Beauty and self worth make a person so much more than anyone could understand. They mean more than money can buy a man if religious beliefs should enforce that not condemn it. 

Coupled with those delightful thoughts there is the question of modesty. Men are driven by their testosterone to be interested in women and for society to work men must control their urges. Some do, some less well. Modesty of attire helps the process. Modesty does not mean aesthetically unattractive, just not sexually provocative. Strangly, excessive shielding of men from the female form seems to add fuel to the fire. So modesty seems be be a fine social judgement, a true virtue.