6 days into subutex withdrawal and had small relapse plz help

Hi Ryan

I'm sorry the doc wouldn't help you!

It can be a set back when you are hoping for relief and it doesn't come

And well done for going for that walk I'm glad you felt the sun on your face, simple things like that can remind you of your place in this world and how lucky you are to be part of it

I am not having a great morning 

I didn't get much sleep and have a banging headache

I'm not sure if it was a good idea but I ordered some katrom which arrived today and I have taken 3grams (weighed on scales from a previous habit )

It's about half an hour since I dosed and I can say I feel a bit more comfortable, I am a bit worried I might be on the road to a new addiction but it's supposed to be less habit forming and easier to quit?

I'm not suggesting you try it because I truly believe if possible we should be able to function as humans without using mind altering substances 

I just find life a bit too much without something to take the edge off, maybe it's a brain chemistry thing or maybe I'm just a junkie?

Oh, and by the way, I'm a Brit, not sure why you thought I was a yank?

Stay strong my friend 

I'm glad we have had the chance to share

Oh right no way ur British I just thought with the drugs u mentioned they seam to b more of a problem across the pond sorry man yea I was reading about kratom but it's a bit of a risky one it's a drug isn't it we have addictive personalities don't we!! but ppl have had success with it with what I've read anyway maybe the drugs have been masking depression that is very common my key worker said. Maybe antidepressants will help? the headache is ur natty pain killers are non existent let me know how u get on with that kratom is it shipped illegally from abroad

I was basically asking taking about kratom and the fact that u may have been masking depression with the drugs my key worker said that's very common. And the head aches is just that our natural pain killers r non existent that was the jist of it anyway

WHAT I DID NOT swear that time it's like they don't want us to speak for god sake

I'm sure your replies will get through at some point once someone has edited whatever they find offensive out of it

It's ______g annoying though (self editing there)

Especially when you take the time to type your thoughts to help a fellow sufferer

Peace bro

Hi both,

The posts went for moderation as they mentioned the specific product name. This is because we have had users trying to sell it via these forums so it is to prevent this happening again. The posts have not been edited, just needed approving. If any posts do go for mod or you want to talk privately you can use the Private Message service if this helps. You can talk freely without anything being edited out or going for moderation. See http://patient.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/398331-private-messages

Regards,

Alan

Emis Moderator

Oh ok thanks for the info that's helpful I understand now

Morning Ryan

I hope you are feeling better today, it's going to be a lovely day in my part of the country and it's my wife's day off

 so I have cleared yet another day out of my diary

I will have to earn some money soon as my overdraft is spiralling and I have customers waiting, fortunately most of them are being patient and understanding as I'm "ill"

Well where do I start....

Kr___m (for the fear of mods) 

It arrived (I bought it from a uk based distributor, and it is legal in this country)

I researched dose level and then used my digital scales (left over from a previous habit )

I chugged 3g in water, didn't taste too bad, washed it down with more water, then sat to watch a bit of tv trying to distract myself from my discomfort.

I could feel something after about 15-20 min, definitely more comfortable but with a sort of strong coffee buzz

After an hour I decided to take 2more grammes as the best results are between 3-7g

I enjoyed the tv.

Researching the internet at the same time, and after a couple of hours I found myself hoovering the house, mopping the kitchen, cleaning generally and really enjoying it, it seemed the more I did physically the energy was just available for me!

Basically stimulating but slightly analgesic too,

I didn't thinkabout codeine for the rest of the day!

I was flagging a bit about 5pm

And took 3 more g

My wife came home, I showed her the stuff, and all the research I had done, she had had a crap day at work and was suffering discomfort in her neck, she asked if she could try some (which is not like her, she's a good girl)

I prepared a 3gramme dose for her, which she took, she had to go out for a meal with friends and was jaded, after half an hour she said "it's like I've had a coffee but without the caffeine shakes" she had a great night out, alcohol seemed to dampen the alertness, but didn't cause any "mixing"      Issues.

When she got back I was star gazing she came outside and chatted with me for an hour or so, whereas she would have normally just put the tv on

All in all, for me it works, I feel great, not craving, and have energy if I need it, 

I didn't have any problem sleeping, but was tired this morning waking from a deep sleep. (I did have half a bottle of red, and a couple of beers though)

Word of warning... About 8pm as I was about to set up my scope, I reached for the bag of kr___m and had to tell myself, no!

Why would I need it at that time of night, it would have kept me awake I'm sure so I recognise there is a potential for habit forming

I am not condoning it, but of it helps me get back to work, and allows me to drive past chemists without buying pills to pop or cwe (cold water extraction) then it will do for me

I feel happy

On another note depression 

Yes I think there is an underlying depressive issue with me, I have been on citalopram in the past which made me like a walking functioning flat lined robot

I have also been on fluoxetine (Prozac) that was quite useful but contributed to my opiate addiction as it reduced the effects of the standard dose of codeine I was on at the time and led me to start adding to my intake with OTC pills and learning the dark art of cwe 

This herb, leaf whatever, also has antidepressant qualities 

I hope one day to need nothing to lead a normal life

But for now this will do for me

I do hope you are finding some peace brother x

Oh that's brilliant to hear brother I don't feel to bad today but last night was an ordeal I went to bed at 11:30 fell asleep about an hour later due to 15 mg zopiclone 2 hrs later and that was it legs were shaking my whole body was shaking roughed it out till about 4:30am on setee as my violent shaking would have woken my mrs then reached for the Valium and managed to knock my self out till about 8am but don't feel to bad now my key worker took my blood pressure this morn and it's fine so he is going to talk with doc again for lofexidine and more zopiclone as my most acute symptoms are rls and insomnia but aside from that I just feel empty emotionally  but that is norm they say. Key worker said as soon as I get bk into my routine of work and gym my endorphins levels will rise he promised me I'm over the worst of it. The moon was awesome last night wasn't it I've got a little refractor telescope I think it's only a 70mm apature or something like that but great to view the moon maybe 1 or 2 Jupiter moons faint. I'm chuffed for u but ur not daft b carefull with k dependance

Hi Ryan

Yeah the moon, it is a wonderful night sky object and completely gets in the way of my hobby as it washes the sky with light, preventing me photographing feint galaxy's and nebula, but that just adds to the challenge! And that's why I love the hobby, it's fraught with complications, therefore a great distraction

I only had 1 dose of kr___m today, I was tempted to take another but toughed it out, I went to see a customer this afternoon and made a small amount of money, and a step towards getting back to work

I was invited to a yoga class this evening, Jesus it was intense! I'm knackered and a bit spaced out, I would recommend it!

Although I'm not feeling too good now, it might have been too much too soon?

I hope you got your meds bro, and hope you get a better night!

I think that empty feeling is the worst! You need to allow your body to recognise the endorphins again, which will take time, it helps to walk everyday apparently.

Peace and healing vibes to you (if that makes any sense?)

Keep going, each day is a day toward the light!

Morning!

Rough night last night

Rls and sweats myself!

I took a diazepam before I went to bed and got about 3-4 hours sleep, been awake, on and off from 4

I will have 2 doses of kra__m today as when I did on Tuesday I slept deep and fine

I'm checking in with my doc today, an will mention the kr___m and ask for some amiltryptaline  to help when having trouble sleeping

I hope you got a better night bro

Take care if yourself today, are you back at work?

I have to make an appearance today! :-/

Going bk Monday the doc has prescribed me 3 days lofexidine and one 7.5mg zopiclone pare night for 4 nights then I'm on my own I do have benzos handy but I'm acutely aware of the habbitforming potential F swapping one addiction for another it's my sons boxing awards night tonight so hope I don't feel sh*t and it takes my mind off it for a while one step at a time eh

I hope your son does well and you can relax enough to enjoy it

I saw my GP today and told him I was using k___tom he knows nothing of it and did a little internet search whilst I was there, and he came to the conclusion that if it remains legal, and I purchase from the same supplier, to try and regulate the quality, and am careful with my doses, ie don't take more than I need, then it is more important to him that I'm stable, and well.

He basically gave me permission if you like?

So I'm sticking with 3G 2 times a day, cos that works, beats cravings and gives me positive energy

I know I'm swapping, but I think some people have a hole that needs filling, and this seems less harmful to me at the moment 

I hope I'm not wrong!

Hope u sleep better tonight bro

Hi Ryan

I hope your silence on this thread means things are easier and you are enjoying "normal" human interaction and not needing as much support from fellow sufferers  

I am back at work today and feeling positive about my decision to use k----m as I have been asking loads of questions on other threads in other forums (bluelight) and although it's a risk, I am content with my choice

I hope you are in a good place, I also hope your son did well boxing last night 

Take care brother

Sorry for silence brother didn't mean to come across ignorant u soon like u have turned a corner mate I'm 95% fine during day now apart from aching legs in the pm along with fatigue the main symptom is insomnia I'm getting about 5 hours a night but that is using zopiclone and 20-30 mg of Valium in ur experience how long would u say it takes to get a dependence on Valium some say months some say weeks some say ages. Im so glad things seem to b looking up for u brother I'm not a religious man but god bless u anyway my son won several awards upcoming boxer being one. And it really took my mind off things I think my depression has been a lot to do with cabin fever stuck in on my own all day it's not me

Hi Ryan 

Don't worry about the silence I take it as a good sign that you have other things on your mind!

Great news about your son, it's fantastic when you can feel proud of your kids 

With regards Valium, I've not had a great deal of experience, but my GP told me it tends to cause less dependancy issues if kept under a fortnight? Although they will always err on the side of caution.

You could get the answer by starting a new thread if it is concerning you, or check benzos on bluelight, or erowid (useful forums full of info and experience)

I too  not religious but have had my moments on my knees!

95% sounds good enough to me at the moment, after what you have been through, I am fine but I know I have swapped my addiction at the moment and will have to pay the piper one day, but I am for the moment, safer, and happier than I was.

God bless you too brother

Stay strong

Oh I forgot

Try some herbal remedies for sleep, like valerian root and or 5-htp 

Not sure if you can mix them with benzos so be careful, maybe try as you taper/jump iff them 

"Off" not iff

Yea I was thinking maybe herbal remedies I'll update with u in a day or two mate ur getting there astro that's the main thing

Hi buddy

How's work?

Are you feeling better? "Normal"

Aya astro I'm bk at work 2nd day I'm not too bad it's just my legs ache so much as I'm on my feet for 10 hours and I'm not getting a good enough sleep to feel rejuvenated I just hope these restless nights stop ASAP 14 days clean from subs today Ive nearly done it I think how u doing have u still been using K and gotten bk to work

Hi buddy

Glad your back to work and coping

You have got to be so proud of your achievement, 14 days! (15 or 16 by the time you get to read this)

Are you getting any "me time"? It's gotta be important to find time to reward yourself (in a healthy way!) to keep your spirits up.

I went for a walk/jog tonight, just half an hour with tunes on, it felt good, I've been back at work properly since Friday and am trying to catch up, my biggest threat, at work is loneliness, I work alone, and that has allowed me to get into mischief before as there is no one to "check me" and I "reward" myself in harmful ways, for working hard.

I have been on the K for a week now, you are wise not to try it, it's good for me at the moment, but it's just another addiction, all be it better in some respects than the alternative, I am still learning about it, the various strains, ways to ingest, timing with food etc, it has given me a clearer head, and eases aches and pains, (my back has been playing up this week) and lifts my mood generally but I can feel the honeymoon period coming to an end, and it just being part of my routine!

Are you taking anything at the moment?

Are you off the  zopiclone/ Valium?

Any way, well done for getting this far!

Catch you later bro

Peace

Hi Ryan

I take your continued silence as a good thing

You are hopefully moving on with your life, and have better things to do than look at this forum

I just want to say thank you for your support and time posting to me when I was at my lowest, it was a lifeline having a fellow sufferer to bitch and moan to

I truly hope you have a long and substance free happy life 

Look after yourself brother

Thank you astro I've just been busy with work and keeping my self occupied bk at gym thing are looking up I still get aching legs and sleep isn't 100% but it's all good I also wish u the very best in life there is defo light at the end of all this I can see it. coming upto a month clean now apart from the slip lol thank u astro ur a nice bloke and u where there for me when I needed!