An opinion of an ex Assessor
Posted , 9 users are following.
Copied from a thread on Mumsnet:
Bit of background; I was a PIP Disability Assessor for a while this year, until I decided that I couldn't work within the system with a good conscience, and left. I witnessed DA's who were trying their best, mostly, to help people with their claims. They (and I) were hamstrung both by our immediate employers, and a system (whether by accident or design) that discriminated against claimants with certain conditions. In the spirit of the release of 'I, Daniel Blake', which isn't about PIP but other failures of the benefit system, I've decided to give some general advice to those looking to claim PIP.
Firstly, let's look at initially making the claim. I would say the most vital point is this; PROVIDE EVIDENCE. The way that the claim form/questionnaire is worded implies that the DWP/ATOS/CAPITA or whoever will chase letters from GPS, specialists etc to back up your claim for you. In my experience, this doesn't happen. The onus is on you to provide this information, although it would be very easy to assume the opposite. Some photocopies of a recent prescription, letters detailing diagnoses and appointment dates, and evidence of secondary care involvement (especially people with mental health conditions) provide good evidence; if you haven't provided anything, then the DA has to go mostly on that short assessment with you. You may be horribly unwell or disabled for 5 days a week, if you're having a 'good day' on the assessment however, then your claim is in trouble. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence; I can't stress that enough. Don't let the DWP have the easy option; the decision they make is heavily dependent on the report written by the health professional that assesses you. The decision maker at the DWP has no medical qualifications of any sort.
If you have disabilities that cause you to have problems getting out (especially severe MH conditions), ask for a home assessment. The way the system is, if you have a MH condition involving severe anxiety or depression, or agoraphobia; then you attend a clinic appointment, it can be used as evidence that you aren't as bad as you claim that you are. The reasoning is that you can't be that ill if you can get to a clinic appointment. It's profoundly unfair, and a large part of why I left. Once again; evidence is so important.
Don't assume that the health professional that sees you knows much about your condition. In a working and well-designed system, those with certain conditions would be given appointments with HP's with a specialism in that area. It ain't so. You could get a general or MH nurse, an Occupational Therapist, a Physio or a Paramedic. It's completely random. If you can bring along a health professional of your own, then do. I'd advise anyone against attending by themselves. That's not because I don't trust the DA's; the vast majority are good people. It's just easy to forget things, and people with severe MH problems or learning disabilities/Autism really need an advocate of some sort.
If you're asked to do a set of 12 exercises (it's called the Musculoskeletal exam, or MSK), be sensible! I had people trying to please me by trying to do these despite evident pain; tell the DA why it would be difficult for you to do it. If you cannot do it, just do what you can and explain why. Completing those ridiculous exercises at personal cost, especially pain, will count against you. Don't make stuff up to help your claim (they'll see straight through it, and assume that you're dishonest), but don't put yourself at risk of harm by doing something that you can't. The DA has to take your safety into consideration when assessing what you can and can't do. Once again, evidence is key. If you need aids or adaptations to walk, or need to wear wrist supports etc, then bring/wear them. Help the DA to help you. They normally will.
Talking of assessments, if you report any MH conditions at all, then the DA will be observing you throughout the assessment for a Mental State Examination (MSE). In my opinion, this is even more badly designed that the MSK. A HP, who may or may not have any MH experience at all, will continually assess your mood, behaviour, anxiety etc throughout the assessment. It's completely subjective. If you have a serious MH condition, if you are in pain, if you are distressed or anxious then let it show to the DA. The stiff upper lip is the worst possible approach.
We were told that those 45 minutes were key. If a consultant wrote that you couldn't do something, then you did it in that 45 minute assessment (good day or not) then the weight of evidence would be on the assessment.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that PIP discriminates against those with learning disabilities or MH conditions. Seriously. It's appalling. If you are turned down, then PLEASE appeal. You'd be surprised how many obtain PIP through appeal; it's often through providing further evidence. Don't give the DWP the chance to deny your rightful claim in the first place; provide that evidence when you first fill in the forms.
3 likes, 32 replies
ihavenonickname les59996
Posted
mike09523 les59996
Posted
Hi All,
It does seem that they ,dwp, have won!!!!
We as individuals have taken on the combined forces of HM Government, DWP, Atos, Maximus etc. and casualties are high.
Many of us took to our wheelchairs,mechanised division, but were no match for the dreaded desk brigade, those on crutches and walking sticks were swept aside by the elite smarmy division. Small one manned bed and chair platoons were successful in slowing the advance, as were snipers such as Les 59996, who risked their lives many times.
We will be forgotten in history, because we don't write it but we tried and tried again
RIP the defenceless, the weak, the mentally ill, the disabled of this once great land that we called home.
Mike.
les59996 mike09523
Posted
I like that, very much to the point!!
Yes that is how I felt initially after the refusal letter for Attendance Allowance was received.
I’ve calmed down now, although still angry that the State is so inflexible to understand the difficulties and needs that arise from any diagnosis that is either complex or rare.
Obviously, and just looking at the financial position I have been placed in – I am now having to fund the £50 a week mortgage interest out of savings as well as having to top up our weekly income by another £160 that was lost when the DLA ceased which also caused the Guaranteed Pension Credit award to close.
I still have a debt with the Council Tax which I am trying to settle and now find that they want an additional just under 7 months of Council Tax (£889.58) for this year due to the loss of the GPC.
I wonder if I approached the bank and suggested that because of the shambles of a system that the DWP have in operation that I shouldn’t have to pay the mortgage interest as the problem was caused by the DWP and not me?? I doubt it.
Still we have another approx. 6 1/2 years of savings left (cashed in the insurance policy that was there to settle the mortgage debt) by which time at 75 I will have gone past caring where we end up!
mike09523 les59996
Posted
Hi les,
That is a lot of mortgage interest to lose.
My wife and I fought a losing battle with our mortgage, which was supposed to
be paid out of an insurance plan that crashed.
We had a meet with our children and explained the realities of our situation and jointly agreed
that it was time to hit it on the head and go for equity release.
Before everyone writes in about how stupid we are, we know, it wasn't easy, but we are so relieved that it is done.
No mortgage, no rent, and probably no equity for the children, but some peace of mind for us for now.
Not an ideal plan but desperate measures for very desperate times.
Mike.
les59996 mike09523
Posted
Yes it is – the £50 a week was being paid by the DWP via the Guaranteed Pension Credit award until it ceased.
We had an insurance policy that had matured for just over the debt value and was sat there waiting until April next year when the 5% penalty if it was paid off would expire.
Now that we have the cash we are using it to pay the interest and to top up our living expenses.
A bit ridiculous I know – when we cashed it in we had slightly more than we needed 7 months ago to pay off the mortgage. But if we did that then we would have been very short of money which is needed to live off. We would have been sat on property worth well over ¼ million but would have not been able to live.
Equity Release – yes I have looked at that. We had a quote off the web that would have given us just over £93,000 (the mortgage debt is £86,000). In taking that money we would have had to sign over the house to them which I say is worth just over ¼ million. That didn’t sound a good idea to me. The figures show that the debt doubles every 10 years. So after 20 years (I’ll be 88 and my wife 92) the amount that they would have wanted back would be £372,000 – meaning there would be nothing for the kids.
We might consider it later – see if we can stretch ten years before we do it – the debt then when I’m 88 would be £186,000 – a hell of a difference.
But as I have said I’m not thinking that far in the future – no point really – who knows how our health will be by then – we could be both in a care home!
Pike les59996
Posted
This is very worrying for me and the family as yes I have primary progressive MS and epiplepy and ulcerated colitis and my main carer is my wife but I am also a person who wants to try and do things for himself and challenge myself which is what we as disabled people are meant to do (the old overcome any challenge as best we can attitude) but the distress all this causes does not help and so yes I am no longer going to push myself but just sit and wait but my wife has already asked CAPITA about making a recording of the assesment if it happens which we will do but if there are 2 tapes of the same assesment then surely things cannot be added or removed or am I living in hope...
Well thank all for listening ..
les59996 Pike
Posted
Hi Pike
First of all you seem to have the same outlook on life as I have - trying to never give in to what a disability brings to the table.
?Giving in or giving up trying to find ways around the things you can no longer do with ease I find gives a sense of satisfaction despite the additional hurt it causes - nothing ventured, nothing gained.
For a start you will have to get permission for any recording of the PIP face to face assessment. You will have to comply with their rules and regulations regarding the type of equipment you use.
?As for the two tapes, the one that you will hand over to CAPITA actually just gets 'filed away' for about 18 months then is destroyed. The DWP never have access to it and actually would not use it as evidence. At the end of the day the only purpose of a recording is for the claimant to have it to refer to it when and if the claim goes to appeal. It is very unlikely that you will be able to present to the Tribunal in any event. Treat it as a aid for you to write your submission, although a Tribunal is not particularly interested in what was said at the assessment.
?It's however very useful if you want to use it if you want to make a complaint to CAPITA if you are not happy with the report they send to the DWP.
?The assessment report is only an OPINION and NOT A STATEMENT OF FACT We all can have opinions which may be right or wrong. The same goes for CAPITA. They will always argue that despite what is said at an assessment their OPINION may well be that your body language or what you say or how you say it does not fit the claims you have made on the claim form.They may be of the OPINION that you are exaggerating your difficulties - they place more on what they say they observe than anything else.
les59996
Posted
NOT giving in or giving up trying to find ways around the things you can no longer do with ease I find gives a sense of satisfaction despite the additional hurt it causes - nothing ventured, nothing gained
Pike les59996
Posted
Pike
Posted
mike09523 les59996
Posted
On the subject of recording the assessment.
If it is so trivial, as far as dwp go, what would be the situation to covertly record the assessment for your own reference only as an aid to memory jogging after the event.
Not for any other use-would we be breaking any law?
Mike.
les59996 mike09523
Posted
Breaking the DWP rules - certainly Yes.
If you are found or suspected of trying to record the assessment without the knowledge of the assessor you run the real risk that the assessment process will be brought to an end with the assessor sending back your file to the DWP stating that you have failed to co-operate.
For the DWP that will result in the claim that you have made being forcibly closed down.
les59996
Posted
If however you have the shorthand writer swear an Affidavit that the contents of the transcription and the actual notes that were taken down, are a full an complete record of the assessment then that could be used in a complaint to the assessing company if you decide to go that route.
Demanding that the DWP listen to the authorised recording or look at transcribed notes will be refused.
mike09523 les59996
Posted
Hi les,
It's great isn't it.
Traffic wardens, police officers wear cameras to record their everyday life facing Joe public, no infringement of our rights??
CCTV record our every move in public to "protect" us. (If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't mind).
But, when it comes to people who have mental or physical, or both, difficulties, who struggle to remember things, no such help.
I would have thought that it would be simple enough to use the same equipment at PIP assessments for our aid, as they do when interviewing suspected criminals
at police stations.
Or are the dwp above the law of the land.
Mike.
les59996 mike09523
Posted
That is a very very good point.
?The DWP in common with most other government departments do not operate under the criminal law in these circumstances. If they did they would have to abide by P.A.C.E. when wanting to interview someone. Government departments work under the old Perjury law (unless there is a criminal aspect to the case) which conveniently does not require any similar safeguards to be put in place.
?Under that law the claimant is not entitled to demand that a solicitor or responsible adult be present, the department (or it's agents) have the ultimate right to eject anybody out of the interview if the interviewer feels that it would be the right thing to do with no appeal allowed. Additionally, and this gets to your point, a recording of the interview does not need to be physically carried. It is sufficient for the interviewer to make notes of the proceedings. The person being interviewed would then be asked to sign the notes or simply to agree that they are correct.
?From the DWP's point of view on this, it would be sufficient for the assessor to read back what notes he has taken down and ask the claimant if they accept them.