Antibiotics

Thanks, Cheba. That link was a great resource for helping to understand why antibiotics can generally help with inflammation!

I would assume that all benefits with non-bacterial use of antibiotics would be short-term, and that good gut bacteria would also likely be an associated causalty with use.  But, it's helpful to know why it may improve LS briefly.  

Good article, Cheba! Cipped this:

Anti-Inflammatory Effects of Antibiotics

Antibiotics decrease inflammation in the vast majority of cases because clearing an infection removes the reason for the inflammation. However, a number of studies since the 1990s have contributed to the idea that some antibiotics might also directly limit or change the inflammatory response, as discussed in the December 2007 issue of “Rhinology.” Several classes of antibiotics, including the macrolides, tetracyclines and the beta-lactams, when used in certain chronic illnesses, appear to decrease inflammation in addition to their antibacterial effects. This research represents a mix of experimental and clinical studies, some performed only on cell cultures rather than patients. The antibiotics mentioned show a variety of ways they might affect the inflammatory response, including changing inflammatory cell metabolism, altering cytokines and other chemicals that stimulate and help maintain inflammation, and speeding the breakdown and removal of inflammatory cells. Any or all of these mechanisms could act to decrease inflammation.

Wow Greg.  I learned again something new.  Made big note on this one: Sint Johns Wort. Thank you for sharing.

I am happy to share Hanny! I obviously cannot know if St. John's Wort could be of any help for LS, however, I have found a very interesting article on the Pubmed Web Site where a 44 year-old female presented with recurrent vulvar lesions and pain. A diagnosis of methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus in the setting of eczema was achieved with concomitant use of photography and dermatopathologic review. The woman was initially diagnosed with LS!

Simply type PMC4085041 in your search engine if you want to learn more.

Regards,

Greg

It was also staphylococcus aureus that caught my attention.  Coconut oil, which I use a lot for LS seems to also kill this bacteria and kills the yeast Candida Albicans.  I am using baking soda for rinsing and coconut oil for lubrication and apparently other.  The LS is on retreat meanwhile.  I'm doing this now for approximately four weeks.  

By combining all our experiences here on this forum,  a light may go up with many of us.  Thanks again.

My post did not go through - moderation.  Ordinary conversation.  Don't understand.  Anyway, I'll try again.  

It was the staph bacteria you mentioned that caught my eye.  It seems that coconut oil is doing the same, kills the same bacteria.  I'm using a lot of coconut oil for lubrication and rinse with baking soda.  The LS is on retreat.  I have no proof of anything to be beneficial, it simply starts to show that it is beneficial.  

Will have a look at your web findings.  Thanks again. 

Hi again Hanny. I decided to do some reading about Coconut Oil, and it appears its high content in Lauric Acid does give it some potency against Staph bacteria. As you were suspecting, the fact that you are feeling some relief by applying it, may indeed be indicative of the presence of bacteria on your lesions. Not necessarily Staph - since only an actual test could confirm that - but given the fact that we know SA is the usual culprit... The story gets interesting... And I would obviously suggest getting tested for the bacteria, if that is possible and economical for you.

I also found out that there are other interesting herbs, mainly those used in Chinese traditional medicine and containing Berberine, that might be employed to combat resistant Staph.

Finally, one of my readers on a different forum, who is currently affected by chronic eczema, decided to try SJW, but not through the systemic route I employed. She actually made herself a balm with 3 parts coconut oil and one part SJW oil, that she bought from her health food store. Her initial reaction to the first application was very encouraging. I will be looking forward to her follow-ups.

We are quite likely getting somewhere! All the best!

Thank you again, Greg.  We indeed are going somewhere somehow in a good direction.  All the time closer to understanding what causes it, what fights it.

I too have LSC and am my wits end! I can't take this anymore. I've tried EVERYTHING except SJW. This really was all it took to make it go away? Did you use any oils or creams? Eliminate soaps etc? Or just St.johns wort? I'm excited to come across this and give it a try. Thank you Greg!

Hi Katie,

600mg/day of SJW extract is all it took to get rid of a 20 year-old disease for which all the other tricks in the book had failed miserably! The symptoms were gone in 6 weeks, and the scars in 5-6 months. I wish I would have known in advance what SJW could do for me, because I would then have bought the cream or the oil for instantaneous relief on my lesions. However, the systemic treatment did a perfect job with a little time, and did so without any side-effects either. I have now been LSC-free for almost 2-1/2 years, to the disbelief of all my doctors!

You should read about potential interactions if you are going to try SJW while taking any other medication. I was on nothing else but SJW and my perfectly ordinary diet and lifestyle.

BTW, this is not my main thread for discussing LSC and SJW... I have posts both in the Alternative and complementary medicine AND the Eczema and dermatitis forums where I discuss the subject with other patients.

Best of luck if you elect to try SJW and please keep us posted on your progress!

Greg.

That is truly amazing! Thank you for the quick response I am going to try the oil and capsules as I am not currently on any medications. Well Benadryl so I can get at least a few hours of sleep with this horrible itch. I've had it for 8 years now and it is so out of control that I live on ice packs. I really hope this is my answer as it was yours. Happy for you that you got cured!! Thanks again.

I know exactly where you are coming from concerning the intolerable itch! I have much faith that the oil will provide you with immediate relief as there is so much evidence about this on the web, including the success of some small scale clinical trials using SJW cream against eczema.

However, please be patient with the systemic treatment (as long as you tolerate it well)... I'm convinced we are dealing with a very stubborn bacterial infection that taxes our immune systems, and getting rid of it takes time. A patient on another forum whose body was literally covered with wounds had to wait 12 weeks before experiencing any benefit, but he is now very happy to boast about a huge drop in the surface covered by the lesions, a disappearance of all the itching, and of course, the rediscovery of quality sleep. it's been a few weeks now since his latest update, and I'm hoping he will soon tell me the disease is completely gone.

Best regards.

You will be my hero if this works I can not live like this anymore. I'm so happy I stumbled on this thread. Haven't slept through the night in ages. I bought the capsules yesterday but had to order oil online. Can't wait for it to come.

That is amazing that it cured all his wounds. I've delt with this for so long that 12 weeks is worth the wait. Thanks so much

One other question if you don't mind :-) I bought 300mg capsules and it recommends 3 a day with a meal. Wpuld you suggest sticking to two for 600mg or take the 3

900mg is the typical daily dose of SJW one would take to treat depression, the most common reason why people would employ it. I initially took SJW to deal with a small anxiety issue following the loss of a job, and started the conservative way with only 300mg a day. I was a litlle "chicken" I must say, having read that some people experienced unpleasant side-effects. After 6 weeks, when I noticed the unexpected results on my skin and seeing that I had no unpleasant side-effects, I raised the dose to 600mg and stayed at that level afterwards.

Everyone reacts differently to medicine. If you are brave, go for it and take 900mg from the very start! If you wish to be conservative and to first test how your body generally responds to SJW, then start off low and increase the dosage little by little. It also depends if your LSC covers a large part of your body. In my case, the LSC only covered my lower legs below the knee, although it was very intense.

Hope this helps.

Thank you.

I think I'll try 600.

I have it in the worst place possible. Front and back. It's runing my life. I can't even play with my kids, exercise, do normal things sometimes (most times). I used to be embarrassed by it but now I'll shout it from the roof tops if someone will give me a cure.

I think it is wonderful that you have been cured for over two years and still continue to help others. You're a good person.

Thanks again!!

If you truly think I am a good person, please go and check out what some brilliant researchers have uncovered concerning the effects of SJW on skin disease! I wish I had 1/10 of the knowledge these guys have to really go out and help others... Simply type Topical Applications of St. John's Wort Silae in your search engine; you will then be reading a scientific review from an incredible Swiss-German dermatologist who has devoted most of his career studying SJW. This is a rather long and technical paper, but reading it will likely give you additional faith that you will soon be cured! I only found out about this paper a few months ago, but wish this sort of information was on the nightly news, so that everyone who suffers from so-called incurable skin diseases could rediscover hope.

I wish you a very nice first weekend under SJW!

Greg.

Do you know a lot of side effects? Just curious it could be coincidence but I have a serious muscle pain in my back and side rib cage that no pain killer or muscle relaxer will help. It started the day after I started the St. John's wort. im guessing it's coincidence - I sure hope it is at least. I read sjw could help with pain not cause it. This pain feels deeper than muscle.

Hi Katie,

Everyone reacts differently to medication, natural or conventional; but yes, I have read that St. John's Wort may cause muscle cramps just as some people claim it helps relieve them; It can also cause skin rashes, yet, it can also help remove them (as it did for my LSC, if we can call that a skin rash). It can also cause nervousness and agitation, yet it is mostly recognized to reduce such symptoms. Strange paradoxes unfortunately, but you can easily find out about known potential SJW side-effects by typing St. John's Wort side effects in your search engine.

I also hope the muscle pain you are feeling is pure coincidence, but I would obviously ask if you've already felt such cramps in the past, and could you have done any strenuous exercise in recent days that might have triggered them?

You're also mentioning that no pain killer or muscle relaxant can help, but did you indeed take any pain killers or muscle relaxants or was this just figure of speech? As mentioned, one should be careful about taking any medication at the same time as SJW, and check for possible interactions either through a health professional or a serious drug interaction website.

 

I stopped the sjw when I took pain killers. I was saying literally they aren't working at all , but I hear back pain can be bad as I've never had it. I received the oil an hour ago and tried it. So far ok but initial stung a lot. I guess there is alchol in there which I did not know. I will keep applying for a day to see if it works. I did just type in alcohol free and there are some so I may order one of those too.

Thank you for your response I really appreciate all the help you have been and I am going to keep trying to see if it works for me too.

I believe I have read it was helpful to add alcohol to SJW cream or oil to preserve the properties of Hyperforine, one of the most active constituents of the plant, especially against infection. Otherwise you probably would have to obtain very fresh oil from a trusted herborist. I trust the oil should be helpful and produce faster relief with practically no risk of side-effects except that of a potential allergy which could develop with any substance anyways. 

In theory, I think the idea of treating the disease from the inside out (with pills) probably offers better hope for a permanent cure because oil applied from the outside may not necessarily penetrate into the deeper layers of the skin. But not everyone can tolerate the systemic treatment and you have to go with what is possible. I have to admit being very lucky that absolutely everything went well in my case.

So it might be best to wait a few days for that muscle pain to disappear before trying the pills again, and perhaps at the minimum dose this time (300mg), just to see if there is indeed a connection. Hope there isn't.

Good luck!

 

Hi greg...some interesting comments on St John's Wort.

I have ordered "Hypercal" a cream containing hypercium(SJW) and calendula.

It is another trial cream for me, to sooth any irritation from LS.

If it is not a success for LS I will try using it for eczema on my foot.  

I will most definitely continue the pills once this back pain is gone as for the oil I really want to give it a chance to work but because of the sting it gave I'm a little hesitant, but maybe if I fight through the initial sting it may work. I was thinking of adding it to a Vaseline or aquaphore. We will see. Thanks again!!

Hi Norma,

I find it interesting that you have both LS + Eczema. The last dermatologist to have looked at my lesions told me I probably had a combination of LSC + LP. I am beginning to think that there is a link between all Lichens and all varieties of atopic skin, be it eczema, psoriasis etc. 

I don't know if you have read the latest findings at the University of Michigan School of Medicine and the link between eczema and Staphylococcus Aureus, but if this discovery is correct, it certainly would explain how I got cured from LSC/LP thanks to the antibiotic and anti-inflammatory properties of SJW.

I hope the cream will provide you gret relief. Good luck!

Hi Katie,

...or you might be able to dilute the original product by mixing it with a bit of olive/coconut oil. The base for most SJW oil is generally Olive Oil. I have to say it must not be easy applying anything with alcohol on an inflamed wound. Maybe the sting will also disappear with time, if the ingredients in the oil start doing their job against that inflammation.

Thanks for the tip! I will give that a try

Hi greg...There are several reasons given for occurances of eczema both internally and externally but I am not aware of the link to Staphyloccus Aureus ( isn't staph. the bacteria responsible for throat infections!)

I think it possible an inherited disposition is possible as I have a sister with LS and eczema and it just needs something to trigger a reaction.

In my case my thoughts are an imbalance of hormones may be the cause as both skin disorders appeared after menopause in both myself and my sister.

On asking my doctor what he thought, he didn't think it hereditary but he did thing LS and eczema are connected.

I don't expect the cream to be a miracle cure, rather it will be one that I can interchange with other suitable treatments as I think it best to alternate treatments.

If it proves to be better than my expectations then I will be thrilled.

Thanks for good wishes. 

Staph is common bacteria that actually proliferates freely in our nose cavity. However, many strains have become resistant to conventional antibiotics, and can colonize various organs including our lungs and our skin, causing very tough-to-beat health issues. According to the U of M article, 90% of people who suffer from eczema//atopic dermatitis have staph in their wounds. Just type Staph and eczema what's the connection? in your search engine and you will be able to read the whole article.

If your skin barrier is damaged for any reason, be it, sunburn, hormones, age etc., it becomes fertile ground for a resistant staph infections that will cause your skin's mast cell to degranulate, liberating the histamine that causes the itch and the inflammation. According to what research has proven so far, the beauty with SJW, is that it apparently kills the resistant strains of Staph, combats inflammation, and helps repair damaged skin by reorganizing the epithelium. I have no clue if it can do that with all varieties of skin diseases/atopic skin, but it might be worth a try when someone has the ability to tolerate it and doesn't need to take medication that is on the interaction list.

Cheers!

Out of interest, have you tried taking a break from steroids? In addition to your treatment regime with coconut oil and alkalising, such a step might help (the regime can always be reverted to), since steroids affect blood sugar. The tendency with steroid treatment, especially long term is for blood sugar to rise and this in itself can be associated with increased levels of infection.

Janniey I use a very tiny amount yet, twice a week on doctor's orders.  Just a scrape off the tube.  The area I use it on is getting smaller and smaller.  However, what I didn't know is that it may rise my blood sugar level.  This whole episode with LS and the use of steroid - could it have something to do with my blood sugar number being so high the last time it was measured?  (almost a year ago)  I was surprized then, and don't know what the level is now.  

Due to adrenal gland problems, without medication I would be in danger of infections for sure.  But since the time that I have meds for that the infections have been very much reduced.  Though I wasn't so happy with the use of steroid because it does affect my delicate immune system.  Sometimes a person has to choose between two bad ones. Certainly in the beginning days of my LS. 

I'll try to think back on where i read that. But it makes sense. Interesting that your last blood sugar count was high. Why not advise that you plan to take a steroid break? Asserting your own strategy perhaps. Given your obvious composure otherwise and having got your adrenals more balanced from the sound of it - seems like this could be the next step for you. I can see from reading around the site that you have come a long way. You may no longer need steroidal intervention (which you felt you did at the outset). In fact might the removal of this agent be the final step ultimately leading to your remission? Exciting! You deserve this freedom!!

This oil did nothing but make it worse. I just ordered a different brand because I don't want to give up yet. The brand I had I looked into reviews and people were saying there is no olive oil mixed in it is just alcohol and an excessive amount (explains the pain) I woke up today worse which I didn't think was possible. Could you give me link to the forum where others are trying this as well. Thank you.

What? Are you saying that what you were sold was basically SJW dissolved in ethanol? That would make it a tincture, I guess, and certainly not SJW oil. A tincture could be useful to prepare your own SJW cream, but certainly not to apply on inflamed skin! I read that you ordered again on the Internet, but if that fails another time, I would suggest to check in your area for a reputable herborist who might supply you with the true fresh product. The Internet can be wonderful to order certain items rather quickly, but sometimes, it might be best to see, feel, and touch the old-fashioned way.

We can't post links on this forum so I'll private-message you Point you to the blog where a lady and her readers have been using SJW and commenting on it. She is in France however (I speak a few languages), so if you can't understand French, it might only be useful to see a few pictures of skin wounds healing with SJW.

Hope this helps!

Hi katie...I think as greg has suggested it appears you have got a tinture liquid rather than a carrier oil.

a tinture is too concentrated to use neat especially on already inflamed skin.

You could try making your own concentration by mixing a few drops into an oil or cream of choice rather than disguarding it.

Let your skin calm down first before attempting again.

SJW carrier oil can be obtained very reasonably from the well known internet site.(not sure if my post will get banned if I mention the name but it begins with A and ends with N).

diguarding!..where did that word come from, is there such a word, I think not ..lol.

I'll re-word that..discarded.

 

What a person 'deserves' and what you get are two different things.  The high blood sugar was in October last year.  The small amount of steriod I use at present can not add much to being borderline diabetic, is my thought.

 

I can feel when I need to use a bit of Globetasol again.  It's still needed. Realizing that LS won't disappear, it is always there.  It needs constant care and that's what it gets.  Resulting in me being able to live fairly comfortably.  I'm very careful therefore to leave 'the glob' out entirely.  

 

hanny, I don't think that a small amount of steroid will make much difference to blood sugar.

Apart from poor diet, stress is as bad as anything for increased blood sugar and insulin spiking.

It only needs a stressie situation for the liver to release glucose into the blood stream and if you are already insulin ressistant or pre-diabetic it makes a difference.

Maybe you were not in a calm place run up to or around October last year unless of course you were having too much of a good time indulging yourself. lol.

Really appreciate all your postings here. I too would like to be pointed to the blog you mention.  Je parle francais.  I find it a coincidence having recently being diagnosed by biopsy with lichen sclerosus and shortly thereafter with granuloma annulare.  I am 71 and had psoraisis/eczema until I was 30; think evening primrose oil cured it then.

Hi Dana,

The link should be in your mailbox in the next few minutes. Guess you'll enjoy reading her comments when she hit the 2 month milestone with SJW. As you will likely read, this is the first summer in a very long time that she was able to sunbathe, and she is now off SJW.

Cheers!

Yes, thanks so much.

Indeed Norma, when the sugar level was measured I was to have my dilation procedure in the hospital and looked perhaps calm, but of course was not that at all.  It had been a stressful period prior as well - having to take so much time to empty my bladder for instance and not knowing where all this would lead.  A good explanation.  Thank you for that.