Posted , 5 users are following.
Hi everyone, I was just wondering, is it possible for two or more vertebrae to fuse together if rods and screws have been implanted but no bone graft has been used? Will the bones still fuse together over time or is it impossible without the use of bone graft or something similar? Thanks!
1 like, 10 replies
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dpilot james57451
Posted
Unless something has changed there is no fusion without a bone graft or cadaver bone material or simulated bone material if they even use that for spinal fusion. Otherwise how else is there to be fusion between two vertebrae. What is there to cause the vertebrae to grow together. The vertebrae doesn't just reach across to the other. As I was told, the facing surfaces of the two vertebrae to be fused are scraped to stimulate growth. Bone matter is sprinkled into a form between the two scraped vertebrae that are to be fused and then they grow into and with the bone matter. I may be wrong, but tha's the layman explaination that makes sense to me.
Tuckerraz james57451
Posted
Hi James,
Yes :-) I had an ACDF at C6/7 in April 2014. They didn't use a bone graft or metalwork, rather they stabilised my spine by replacing the disc with a carbon fibre cage and used biological glue to stick it in place. As I understand it, based on recent MRI results, everything is as it should be.
Hope this helps.
Tuckerraz
Posted
dpilot Tuckerraz
Posted
You are correct. I use the terms bone graft and donor fragment interchangably, but they really are different. It is as you say bone fragments and usually from the same patient's hip. That's what occured to me. Kind of painful and certainly noticeable after fusion surgery. You are fortunate to have a replacement disc. I hope it continues to work well. Artificial discs can not be used for the lumbar spine. They were tried in Europe but had a bad record of sucess. I was told that keeping them in position in the lumbar spine was much more difficult than in the cervical spine.
Fusion is horrible becauses it creates rigidity where you need flexibility and keeps me in constant pain albiet at a lower level than before fusion but constant unrelenting pain nonetheless. An sleep is elusive. It comes in only 2-4 hour blocks and usually only one of each. I goe for weeks averaging only 4 hours of sleep simply because my spine is fused in a certain position and unless I can find that precise position and keep it through the night, I will be binding nerves somewhere along my spine causing pain to build up till you wake up. A body must sleep periodically and horizontalpositions are unsustainable for many fusion patients. Undergo fusion ONLY if the pain is so intense that sacrificing rest and sleep for the remainder of your life is worth the trade.
Carolineq8 dpilot
Posted
I wish I'd never had my fussion but was made to feel like it was going to work wanders fir me, how wrong they were and how nieve of me😢
Tuckerraz dpilot
Posted
Hi there. I've had a fusion - ACDF is an anterior cervical discectomy and fusion. The cage isn't a disc replacement unfortunately, rather it's used instead of a hip bone graft to go in between the two vertebrae to allow fusion of them. The glue is to assist with that, so that there is no need for the patient to provide bone themselves or for cadaver bone to be used.
I'm afraid I cannot comment on lumbar spine fusion, as I've had cervical, but I can sympathise with the discomfort and pain. Recovery was long and hard, and unfortunately residual nerve damage remains. Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
dpilot Carolineq8
Posted
Yea, there is big $$$ in fusion surgery, but it has a high failure rate and side affects I did not consider enough; mainly rigidity and binding when trying to sleep. Also accelerated failure of joints adjacent to the fused joints.My neurostimulator trial has given me new hope since it went so well. Didn't do great in all aspects, but did well enough in the trial to feel confident it'll be a life changing event from where I'm otherwise headed. As a very active person on the water several days a week fishing and a 69 year old ex airline pilot who can't fly right now due to pain meds, I see that all changing soon based on that trial.
dpilot Tuckerraz
Posted
OK, I have a better picture of your condition. For me recovery from fusion surgery was quick but just as I stopped the last of my pain medication I became too active and overdoing things, so the pain gradually came back but differently and on the opposited side. Now my peak pain is an 8 for the first several hours after getting out of bed in the morning instead of a periodic 10 that would come for short periods 3-4 times per week as before surgery. But the trade off for me is that now my average pain is 3-5 level 24/7, peaking to 8 every single morning. When I go to bed every night, I know for certain that it's like I'm going to be "waterboarded" through the night till I stand up the next morning. Consequently I often delay going to bed because of knowing of what is coming. I'm convinced that in about 3-4 generations from now people will think about spinal fusion as we do now about "bloodletting" they used to do 100 years ago and say to themselves "What on earth were they thinking"
Best wishes to you too.
Carolineq8 dpilot
Posted
Ah I wish you well and I hope it is life changing for you, keep in touch with your progress, thank you 😊
james57451 dpilot
Posted
"I'm convinced that in about 3-4 generations grom now people will think about spinal fusion as we do now about "bloodletting" they used to do 100 years ago and say to themselves "What on earth were they thinking"
This is so funny because I actually have always thought that myself! 😂 I thought when I first heard of spinal fusion, that surely can't be a real thing why would anyone think permanently fusing a spine in place is a good idea! Lol, it will definitely die out soon enough when medical care and surgery advances in sure hahaha.