Carvedilol

Thanks, Chris.  ....really appreciate your feedback. ...started back up on carvedilol about. 2 Days ago.  Will let you know how it goes. 

I also had side affects from Amlodipine so I can relate to your comments.  Im so thankful I’m no longer taking it.  

Hi May I ask what side effects you had from amlopidine Thank you

Hi, My major side effect was digestive issues. The side effects slowly took over so I did not realize that the pain under my left breast was radiating from near my stomach was caused from taking Amlodipine for over 10 years.  Other side  effects I experienced were a feeling like a knot in my lower and upper intestine (now I think it was causing major constipation thus the knot feeling) burning in stomach, neck/shoulder pain, burning in left arm, and in center of chest.  In fact, the pain cause my doctor to think it was my heart so I had a heart cath but there was no problem with my heart. I started a discussion on Amlodipine if you may want to check that out for more details of my journey with Amlodipine.      

I agree with what you said about BP drugs usually prescribed more as a 'calm down"...slow the heart a little because of anxiety, etc. Once the heart slows, the bp comes down, but the drug alone is not enough to reduce elevated bp. 

Here in Canada, doctors will prescribe a 'start off' medication...but with numbers as high as what has been written here, they would most likely prescribe a med along with a diuretic, then increase things when/if needed. It's better to titrate upwards than to start off too high thereby putting the patient at risk for side effects., which can make them feel worse than the ailment itself.

Thank you. No problems with pulse. Really appreciate your comments. 

sue42907...leg swelling is a very common side effect of Amlodipine; especially the higher doses, i.e.10mg & upward. Yes, swelling can occur even with the 5mg. You are now on Candesartan which is an ARB., whereas the Amlodipine is a Calcium Channel Blocker. Glad you've found something that's working.

@Mesirm, yes, I noticed my beta blocker atenolol raised by BG by ten points or more. 

You want to try something that might help - licorice!  Even a very tiny amount, and you shouldn't ever eat a *lot* of licorice because it has an ingredient that causes problems.  But go out and get just one black licorice whip (make sure the variety you get actually contains licorice, some use anise instead!), or even some tea that has licorice as an ingredient, and see if that doesn't undo the beta blocker effect on your BG.  Then if you like it you can get some "deglycyrrhizinated" licorice without the carbs, and that seems to mostly help, too.

 

If Carvedilol is also causing you weight gain, I guess that is not unknown for beta blockers but you might try reducing your dosage.  I take 1/4 of the lowest dose of atenolol, and that's plenty for me.

 

Thank you, jx.      .....reallly appreciate info.  Will try.  

I agree that the lower dosage should be discussed with the doctor, I discussed with my doctor before I reduced my own dosage and he agreed.  OTOH if he had disagreed I would have found a new doctor, LOL.

And I do and did emphasize - TINY dose only of licorice as well, if you care to try it. You can discuss that with your doctor too, if you want to see him roll his eyes and mutter something inaudible.

Ok..now things are clearer. I'm glad you did discuss lowering the dosage with your doctor. Some people here in the forum make the statement that they themselves lowered the dosage, & to me, that's playing roullette with your health. 

A lot of doctors out there don't believe in eating licorice, drinking beet juice, etc.etc.etc. as a means of lowering bp because there is no scientific proof that it works. Remember, doctors work on a 'science theory". I've often wondered what the people who do drink all the beet juice, garlic, etc.etc. when they go on holiday.Surely they don't cart all that stuff with them. 

MY doctor wouldn't have said anything about the licorice, or he'd simply make a motion with his mouth, & shake his head slightly as if to say "it won't work". 

If you're into licorice why not try the 'real mccoy".??? Get yourself some licorice bark..it's the real thing, but don't expect it to taste like the black licorice you buy in the store. It looks just like tree bark, but believe me it has a taste all of it's own...AND you need just the tiniest bit.

 

If people want to lower the dose then it is up to them.Medicine is NOT a science, that's the problem.

I totally agree with you and like your attitude. 

yes sensible people would take/stuff' on holiday with them. LOL.

 People have a right to question medication etc. Some people have suffered unnecessarily for fear of upsetting their drs asking questions about medication. Myself included eg benzodiazepine poison.I wish I had taken myself off it four years ago. 

Hi Mike.  Over the years I've tried a number of food and supplement items for various health purposes, and some of them are just as effective as prescription drugs - and yet doctors ignore them.  And I mean immediately effective, not take them for six months and see if you feel better.

For many of them there is plenty of scientific evidence that they work, the active compounds are known, their molecular structure is known, their interaction with the metabolism is known, many rats have given their lives to knowing it.  And yet STILL doctors do not pay attention to them, for the cynical reason that the big pharmacy companies cannot patent food items and charge huge amounts for them, so doctors are not badgered into learning about them and selling them.

Beets, and beet juice, are on that list, BTW.  Although I do not know of any "standardized" version of beets being available, as there are for a number of other naturals.  Which when they are in capsules, are as easily carried as any other medication.

The licorice we normally use I believe comes from the root, so it will look more like turmeric or ginger, other roots, which you can buy in many stores, but is more work to prepare.

Besides beets, shiitake mushrooms, dark chocolate, eggplant will also markedly lower your blood pressure (and/or pulse) inside of four hours, just as surely as any pills.  And like prescription drugs they have a half-life and then your BP goes right back up.  I have not seen these immediate effects with garlic, and I've sometimes eaten just about as much garlic as one would wish to, LOL.

Oh, btw, the prescription *pills* for BP, all that I have seen, also work within hours, none of them benefit from "Oh, take them for six months and see if you feel better", either.  Only a few with a long half-life take even a week to get to full dosage.  So if your doctor gives you some humbug about "... and we'll see the results at your next appointment in six months", they have not even read the package inserts on the drugs they are prescribing.

At this point I think it is just one of those problems with the way medicine is being practiced, that most physicians don't know much about diet, food, or common supplements.  There are hazards to them as well.  So physicians will shift you off to "dieticians" who generally lack the scientific training to really tell you much about anything, or even worse "naturopaths" who are supposed to know slightly more about effective foods and supplements, and even have state certificates in many places - but also lack a real medical background.  I want it all in one person!  And considering how *obviously* effective some of these things are, when the doctor just starts mumbling, I am not impressed.

Well I posted a long reply which is in moderation, though I have no idea why.  Length, perhaps.  I have no attitude, I have a condition and I get to see how it responds 24x7, and the doctors do not.  And perhaps the doctors should read the drug package inserts.  On the rest, let's see if my other post makes it through.

I always research all drugs now. I cannot take supplements as on warfarin.Take care

I couldn't disagree with you more! For people to go straight ahead & lower the dose of their medication without consulting their Dr. is playing Russian Roulette. If they were suggest a lower dose, & the Dr. agrees, then there's no problem. 

Jhow21...I agree! There are a lot of people out there who are intimidated by their Dr. About 4 yrs ago, I left my Dr who was in the city because I moved approx. 75 miles north, & thought the drive would work against me. How little did I know what I was up against. I found a young Dr., whom I liked at interview..but as the time went by, I realised just what a big mistake I'd made. He was a cocky know-it all...& prescribed bp medication for me without any education about it at all. Things got to the point where I felt that whenever the meds were changed, he made me feel as though it was my fault. It's hardly my fault if my body is making me feel ill because of medications. At one point he accused me of not wanting to take the meds, & sternly asked if I wanted to control the numbers or not. Clearly it was evident he couldn't prescribe what was right & he was punishing me for  it. Things got to the point where I hated the drive to see him, didn't like the nervousness I felt while waiting my turn, & also in his presence. Finally I knew I had to do something about it. I saw a patient advocate, who called the previous Dr. on my behalf. He was busy at the time & the receptionist explained everything & said he'd likely return the call inside a week, which he did. I got word that he would gladly take me back into the practice, & all I had to do was to set up an appt. with the receptionist, then go see him. The rest is history. What I'm driving at here is that people don't have to put up with irritable controlling doctors who think they know everything. YOU are THEIR boss, not the other way around. I don't take any bullsh*t from them anymore, & the Dr. I returned to & I have a great rapport. I'm very comfortable with him, he explains everything, & is willing to listen to any suggestions/ideas I might have. Going to his office is like visiting an old friend. Also that young Dr. I mentioned has one of my friends as a patient. She has been with him 6 yrs now...& only recently that Dr. discovered that he'd not done a blood test on her. Yes, after 6 years!. Also, she has problems with bowel movements...he has prescribed this/that but to no avail, so the condition was put down to a syndrome where people have difficulty with bowel movements. It is recent that it has been decided that she will have colonoscopy. 

I fail to understand just why he didn't order colonoscopy a few years back! She's 75 yrs of age, & has had the bowel problem for as long as I've known her. I feel as though that Dr. is careless, but I'm so glad to be away from him. So you see, people need to stand up for themselves. If they don't like something, or whatever is said to them just doesn't sit right, they owe it to themselves to ask questions, or demand that something be done. End of.

'Ya right...I can envision people carrying large bottles of beet juice, etc.on holiday. Get real.

I object to your derisory tone . Beet juice is now readily available so a good hotel should not have any difficulty obtaining a supply for guests. Failing that the guest can purchase their own and keep it safely stored at the hotel etc. I like to be positive.

sometimes one has to follow ones own common sense as some surgeries are making patients wait anything up to two weeks for an appointment. LOL.

 

Eerrrr yes, it is.

medicines are rigorously tested and offer repeatable and verifiable results. All the herbs and tree bark that work are refined and called “medicine” the ones that don’t are called “herbal tea”

sorry do not understand the point you are trying to make. 

Jason, you ever read in any detail those "repeatable and verifiable results"?  There are many big selling meds with dubious effectiveness and safety profiles.  Almost all have a lot of variability between patients, and the only way anybody knows - is to try!  New genetic analysis is starting to make a dent on that, but big pharm hates it with a passion, they'd rather everybody try everything.  Though they may be coming around too, because eventually the real science wins.

I have been shocked by what I've learned about a number of nutritionals, how effective they are, and repeatable, etc, in spite of all.  Unfortunately it leads one to accept the story that big pharm ignores some powerful and effective (and cheap!) alternatives because they can't patent them and make an immense fortune.  And nobody can legally advocate or prescribe them unless many millions of dollars of science is done, to prove the obvious.  This is something I would love to see the government fund, half a dozen or more nutrients that could go through testing and then *could* be prescribed.

But forget all that for a moment, even on the prescription meds, having to make an appointment weeks or months later, to discuss with a doctor how it's going, is absurd.  Bad science.  Money over patients.  Doctors pretend it takes that long to tell.  Often it does NOT.

In any current medical setting patients need advocates, and to advocate for themselves, or their luck is liable to be poor.  The system desperately needs change.

Your paranoid ramblings about "Big Pharma" fly in the face of the evidence.

In the UK doctors (GPs) get paid whether their patientsare taking drugs or not, they get paid for preventative activities like the NHS Stop Smoking campaign and offer advice and assistance for substance (including alcohol) abuse all of which are designed to make you less dependant on Pharmaceuticals.

The problem you have in that there USA is your system of private health insurance where the main driver for healthcare is profit not public health which ends up costing the nation more per head than our publicly funded NHS and leads to some obvious anomalies. If you are fortunate enough to be affluent and suffer from Cancer, Diabetes or Heart disease then you will receive among the finest of healthcare th eworld can offer. If you are poor and suffer from these afflictions then you are much more likely to die than in Europe. If you are poor and live in the Rural USA you are as likely to suffer parasitic disease and illnesses associated with poverty as in some third world countries.

This is the repellant truth, if there's no money in poor people they don't get treated.

Imagine that, a healthcare system designed to keep people healthy not to generate profit. It'll never catch on.

jason1098...when reading, I could feel your anger, & rightly so. The U.S. says Canada has a wonderful healthcare system. I can tell you for a fact; that's a big stretch of imagination. I'm Canadian, so I know of what I speak. There are so many illnesses out there, that no matter what you read about them, invariably, there is a sentence that says "there is no cure". How is it doctors know how to treat that particular disease??? If doctors can't figure out a cause (say of a non-life threatening ailment), they stick the label "idiopathic" on it rather that admit they don't know the cause. 

I couldn't agree with you more when you state "If you are fortunate enough to be affluent & suffer from Cancer, Diabetes or Heart Disease you will receive among the finest of healthcare the world can offer". Let's remember Edward Kennedy...although he died, you can bet he had the finest medical care money could buy...same goes for John McCain. Both men suffered with an incurable brain tumor, but again, they had the finest care. The ordinary person would have died sooner. Healthcare is all about money., & nobody will convince me otherwise. Pharmaceutical companies refuse to manufacture drugs that have been proven very effective, because they won't make money. A Registered Practical Nurse friend of mine told me she was watching a tv show., & a fellow said that he would swear on a stack of bibles that there IS a cure for cancer...& it involved just one pill. The cost?..no more than a large cup of coffee at the local Tim Horton's. The problem? The pharmaceutical companies refused to manufacture the pill. I believe this story 100%. Even our Govt won't pay for medicines if they deem it too expensive which means a person likely will die all because "it's too expensive". Money...money...money...unless you're wealthy.

If one must pay a doctor for fees not covered by insurance, cheques are made out to..."Dr. Smith Medical Corporation". Does that tell you something??????

No cure for diabetes, no cure for cancer(supposedly), no cure for Parkinson's..no cure for ALS, no cure for MS, etc.etc.etc. If it were ever admitted there was a cure for cancer, the money tap would shut off. Scientists give us a little bit of "hope" now & then..they must...just to keep the public dangling. Then they act all excited that they've discovered a breakthrough, but it won't be available for...get this...3 years!! 

Yes, jason...I agree with you. 

Jhow21...dream on MacDuff!...dream on.

?????????

How rude, how you get past moderation is a mystery to me.

Jason, I understand your position, and I know we've wandered way off the topic of carvedilol here, and putting the burden on the US system has some truth to it - do you know what WE pay for these drugs, out of pocket, in spite of insurance?  OMG.  It's insanity.  But much of my "paranoia" is admitted to by "Big Pharma" and they eve like the name - when we're talking about buying their stocks.  These "Big Pharma" reasons are why they don't develop drugs for diseases that only a few people have - it costs the same to develop, but they never make the money back.  It's why as a class none of the spend time on new antibiotics - they'd rather work on drugs you take for life.

I'm not saying that they're hiding magic anti-cancer pills just to keep us paying, or anything like that.  Just that the economics are so extreme, that they cause problems.  Do you know that in the last few years the government took a couple of common, popular medicines, that had been used for decades (and centuries!), gave the drug companies a special deal, they did some modern research on them for the first time to "prove" they worked - and they raised the price 100x!  Colchicine and doxycycline.  This is insane.

As to whether doctors get paid whether or not, that's not how the corruption works.  Sometimes there are two drugs, that do the same, but the new one costs 1000x more.  "Oh but if the patient dies and you used the cheaper one …" the drug salesman says, and shrugs.  That's all it takes!

"As to whether doctors get paid whether or not, that's not how the corruption works.  Sometimes there are two drugs, that do the same, but the new one costs 1000x more.  "Oh but if the patient dies and you used the cheaper one …" the drug salesman says, and shrugs.  That's all it takes!"

Not how it works in the NHS, a healthcare system based on patient welfare not a money generating scheme for men in sharp suits. There's a host of articles online explaining better than I can how the UK system works, search "Drug approval NHS" 

I'm not suggesting in any way the NHS system is perfect but it's a lot better than the US alternatives. 

That was a case of medical and scientific fraud. It has no bearing on the discussion, any more than Andrew Wakefield would have in a discussion on the benefits of vaccination

The point is that Big Pharma acted fraudulently.

jason1098....I "hear ya"...

I have insurance which helps greatly in paying for my meds...especially the bp meds. What part isn't covered goes through the from the Govt for seniors. My bill?....$0. There are other meds I must take, but they are not covered at all by the insurance or the Govt...it's out of pocket. Not too bad though.

We do have a very good health insurance program here in Canada, & each province has their own.

Whenever I go to the Dr., I don't pay. If I have to visit hospital..I don't pay. From what I understand., in the U.S. they don't have a decent insurance. The cost of their medicines is out of this world, & if they have to go to hospital & it's discovered they don't have insurance, they may not be treated. Pre-existing conditions are not covered., whereas they are here in Canada under the Provincial healthcare plan. I will say much the same as you did..."I'm not suggesting in any way the OHIP system is perfect, but it's a lot better than the US alternatives".

what do you mean?

When you ask what I mean, are you referring to my statement about medical fraud?

If you are, 

You stated that: medicines are not all rigorously tested etc. See reuben scott and lyrica

I checked and it was a case of misrepresentation, criminal and scientific fraud and as such is hardly relevant to a discussion on actual medical issues. I used Andrew Wakefield as an example to show teh US doesn't have a monopoly on lying fraudsters in the medical profession.

If you're not referring to that,

what do you mean what do you mean?