Cataract Surgery IOL target for second non-dominant eye
Posted , 6 users are following.
I am a 65 yo farsighted female with history of a slight astigmatism in both eyes who has worn progressive lenses for 30+ years until diagnosed with cataracts 4 years ago after which I switched back to bifocals set for distance and comfortable relaxed bent arm cellphone use. I hesitate to call it intermittent because many view that as full arms length. i have found it very rare when I really need to read something up close or super tiny.
Thirteen days ago I had cataract surgery on my dominant left eye with IOL set to distance; my astigmatism was also corrected via laser. I received the Tecnis IOL (ZCB00) with Diopter +20.5d. My LE is doing great. At day one post-op I was easily reading 20/20 and by day the 10 post-op, 20/15 was crystal clear and I could read the 20/10 line even though it was not as clear.
I am currently scheduled to have my non-dominant right eye done 2 weeks from tomorrow. The plan is to make RE slightly nearsighted to try and make it such that I will be able to use my cellphone & iPad without glasses. He is planning to put in Eyhance IOL (ICB00) with -1.25 target. He said something about aiming maybe some place shy of -1.25, so in reality it would be between -1.0 and -1.25.
I understand the concept of what he is attempting to do, but I really do not understand the numbers cited above, as they seem to be very different. I do not know if I have given enough info, but if so, can someone explain those numbers to me. And, does this RE target seem like it should allow me to operate without glasses from about 16” for cell and 20" for iPad?
He mentioned during pre-surgical for the LE that he would have to see during my second post-op what I could handle in my right eye, presumably based on how well or not my LE did. At that time he seemed to be suggesting that the target would be either a -1.25 or -1.50. So I do not know what made to shift to between -1.0 and -1.25. Can anyone shed any light on that as well?
I am okay with needing readers for the rare time that i might want to read tiny print closer than 16". I would, however, not be happy, if it ended up that i had to constant put on readers just to read a text or send one or to read things on my iPad.
Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks
0 likes, 25 replies
RonAKA zippet
Posted
I think your surgeon is giving you very good guidance that not everyone gets. He has done your dominant eye for distance first with a monofocal lens, and waited to see what you have as an outcome. From what you describe it is excellent. It is a bit early but the real measure of outcome is your eyeglass prescription for that eye you had done. That is what he is quoting for your second eye -- the expected eyeglass prescription. Normally you wait until 6 weeks to get that done. But your 20/20+ outcome is great and suggest all is good. How is your reading? At what distance can you read normal sized print on a computer monitor with that eye only?
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The surgeon has you on a stepped process to use monovision which where the dominant eye sees distance the best, and the non dominant eye sees closer. The idea is first to confirm you have good distance vision (which seems accomplished) in the dominant eye, and then select a power of lens to give you good closer vision in the non dominant eye. That is done by leaving you slightly myopic in that eye.
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There are two choices for monovision. One is to use another monofocal ZCB00 like you have in the left eye with good results. This time the power would be selected to leave you at an eyeglass prescription of -1.25 D to -1.50 D instead of 0.00 D to give good distance vision. That would leave you slightly myopic in that eye, and based on my own experience able to see clearly down to about 12" or even less. It is not going to give you the ability to see really small print, and again in my experience that requires +1.25 readers to achieve that on top of the slight myopia.
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The other choice is to use the extended range of focus Eyhance (ICB00) in the near eye. Some call that hybrid monovision. Because the Eyhance has an extended range of focus (but it is not much), you don't need to target quite as much myopia. My guestimate is about -1.00 D is ideal. But since these lenses come in steps of 0.5 D, you can't be that precise and have to accept a range. Your surgeon's range is about right, although I might go for -1.25 to -1.0 D as a range. More gives you better reading and less better distance.
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There are pros and cons to standard mini monovison vs hybrid monovision. The Eyhance is probably significantly more expensive, but if insurance covers it, then that is not a factor. The Eyhance is not going to give you quite as crisp of either a distance vision or close vision in that eye. The standard monofocal will give the crisper vision at the closer, but less at distance. If you really want to dig into the detail of this you should look at the defocus curves for both of these lens choices.
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I think based on what you are being advised you have a good surgeon. If you want to explore it further I would ask him or her what the pros and cons are of the ZCB00 in the second eye vs the ICB00 in a monovision configuration. I am in a similar situation where I have the first eye done with a monofocal and got good results and still have the second eye to do. I am currently simulating the vision of a -1.25 D second eye by using a contact in that eye. I like it a lot. It is not perfect, but I am 95% or more eyeglass free. You are getting short on time, but if the vision in the second eye is still reasonably good, my recommendation would be to simulate the amount of monovision using a contact, before you jump in with an IOL. I have been doing that for a year and am now 100% sure I will go with another monovision lens in the second eye in the range of -1.25 to -1.50 D. I considered a similar to the Eyhance but Alcon brand Vivity lens for the second eye, but have decided against it.
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Hope that helps some,
zippet
Posted
Thanks for your insight. It has helped to give my husband and I a better understanding. We do have a couple of questions to help increase our knowledge base before diving into answering your specific questions.
Since my naturally farsighted dominant LE has been set to distance with the ZCB00 IOL, does this mean it’s intended target was 0.00 D? And, given my excellent results, the surgeon has hit the target or came pretty darn close?
RE: “Your surgeon's range is about right, although I might go for -1.25 to -1.0 D as a range. More gives you better reading and less better distance.”
What is meant by more...
Is a negative number moving further away from zero,in this application. consider more?
OR
Are these numbers more in line with the usual concept of a number line, in which as one moves to the right from any given point on a standard number line, that is considered an increase; therefore, as a negative number gets smaller (closer to zero) it is an indication of more?
RonAKA zippet
Posted
The numbers being used are essentially the same ones that would be used to write a prescription for eyeglasses. You say that you were far sighted in the left eye. Sometimes people use that term to say they can see in the distance very well without eyeglasses, but have trouble reading up close. That is not really far sighted, but quite normal. To be more technical if your eye has refractive error and the image is in focus behind the back of the eye, or the retina. that is commonly called far sighted, and technically hyperopia. Short sighted is when the image is focused short of the back of the eye, and technically is myopia. And when the image is naturally focused on the retina that is perfect vision or emmetropia.
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If you had hyperopia prior to surgery the spherical part of your prescription would have been in the plus range, say +2.0 D or more or less. Emmetropia has a spherical prescription of 0.0 D. Then you go into the short sighted or myopic range with requires a negative power. Commonly it is around -3.0 D, but can be anywhere between -0.25 to -12.0 D or more. If you look at your eyeglass prescriptions assuming you have them you should see this spherical power part for each eye.
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So back to your questions. To know where your IOL eye ended up you really need a refractive eye test like you would get for an eyeglass prescription. But, from your description of what you see and vision tests at, it would seem you have a perfect 0.0 D outcome. IOL's come in steps of 0.5 D, and it is not always possible to get perfect 0.0 D outcome. It is common practice to target -0.25 D and hope it ends up in the range of -0.5 D to 0.0 D. They do not like to go into the + range, as that impacts both distance vision and close vision. A miss on the negative side impacts distance vision, but actually improves closer vision as you are slightly near sighted or myopic. As my surgeon said, nobody ever thanks me for making them far sighted! In any case your surgery has had a good outcome, which in part is a matter of luck in what correction you need, and how well that matches up to the available power steps of the IOL.
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With respect to the second eye, they are trying to make you myopic to improve the close vision. The Eyhance lens due to the design already has about a -0.5 myopia effect built into it. This comes at a slight reduction in the sharpness at distance, but improves the reading about the same as a pair of 0.5 D reading glasses would (if they existed). The reading can be improved further if you go more negative (more myopic), but the distance vision will be further reduced in crispness. It is a bit of a tradeoff. If you target -1.0 D for the lens that, along with the -0.5 built into it, you get a total of -1.5 D, or about the same as wearing a +1.5 D pair of reading glasses. How much is the right amount? My opinion would be to target -1.0 to -1.25 D, but opinions will vary. You would be best to discuss this with your surgeon as the other factor is the power of lens you need and the issue of the large 0.5 D steps between powers. They should be able to narrow it down to two expected residual myopia outcomes.
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Hope that helps some,
rwbil zippet
Posted
Your doctor is offering you a mix and match Option (blended vision) to optimize your overall vision, which is more than most doctors do.
First, you stated you can read 20/10 at distance. I know that sounds great, but there are tradeoffs to everything. If you can read 20/10 distance you might be a bit on the hyperopia side or Farsighted, which
will adversely affect your near vision.
Your plan for the other eye is to do mini-monovision using a Premium Monofocal specifically the Eyhance IOL, thus giving you an even greater close vision boost.
Your question is if you shoot for -1.0 will you be able to see at 16”. Everyone’s results will vary so all we can do is look at the defocus curve and see the average results. I highly suggest you pull out the Eyhance Defocus curve and study it. The real question is what your Visual Acuity will be at 16” if you shoot for a -1.0 refractive target. From what I see, with those setting, you can expect to see about 20/32 (please verify that for yourself). So the question becomes is 20/32 at 16” good enough vision for you?
I don’t know if you are familiar with Premium Monofocals or diffractive IOLs. I will assume (yes I know) that you are not interested in a diffractive IOL. But I would recommend you also look at the other Premium Monofocals and if in the US those are the Vivity and Rayner EMV. These 2 options will give you greater depth of focus, but that may come at the loss of Contrast Sensitivity so you want to make sure your doctor has done them and familiar with the results.
Overall, I think you doctor is offering a Good Option. I am not a big fan of going to much monovision, as the greater the difference the IOL image sends to the brain the bigger the risk for problems.
If you other eye still sees well, you can get a contact for that eye setting it to achieve -1.0 and see how you do with that.
RonAKA rwbil
Edited
"If you can read 20/10 distance you might be a bit on the hyperopia side or Farsighted, which will adversely affect your near vision."
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@rwbil, I am not sure that is quite the correct if you look at the defocus curves for the ICB00 and ZCB00 lenses. The peak acuity is at the 0 defocus position and drops about the same in both directions (hyperopia and myopia) from the 0 position. A 0.5 D defocus either way drops vision from 20/20 to 20/25. In other words going into the hyperopia side hurts both near and far vision. There is no way of going into the hyperopia range and getting supervision. Of note some defocus curves show the 0 defocus position as being essentially at a 0.0 logMar or 20/20. Other ones show the standard monofocal ZCB00 as getting slightly better than 20/20, so perhaps 20/16. It makes some sense that the aspherical ZCB00 gets better vision as it is free from asphericity error, and I am not sure the ICB00 is. I think that is basically how they achieve the EDOF effect. The power of the lens varies with the radius of the lens. Seems to me that you can't vary the power of the lens radially and claim it is aspherical at the same time.
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I will post a defocus curve in the next post. It will likely be sent to purgatory for a day or two. @zippet, you will have to check back to see the defocus curves when they get moderated....
RonAKA rwbil
Edited
Here are the defocus curves for the ICB00 (Eyhance) and ZCB00 (basic monofocal Tecnis 1). These are not all that easy to read. The LogMAR vertical scale is the visual acuity. A 0.2 is considered the limit of generally good vision or 20/32. 0.3 is about 20/40, and starting to get poor. The distance is done in diopters instead of inches or meters. @zippet, if you look at the diopters on the right side of the graph and divide 40" by the diopter you will get the distance in inches. So for example the -0.5 diopter position will be 80". The 2.0 diopter is 20". 40 divided by zero is infinity and represents full distance vision.
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Now for the complicated part. If your surgeon implants a lens at -1.0 D those curves shift over 1 D to the right. This gives you a significant increase in closer vision, but also hurts distance vision.
zippet
Posted
Thanks all for all your thoughts and ill be sure to look for that posted document once its released. Here's additional info...
My last progressive prescription (2017) for eyeglasses just before being told that I was beginning with bilateral cataracts was a very typical script, the type I have had since my twenties.
OD: Sphere +2.25; Cyl -0.25; Axis 150; Add +2.25
OS: Sphere +2.25; Cyl -0.50; Axis 75; Add +2.25
It is my understanding, that the + in front of my sphere value indicates I am farsighted, I remember when in my early twenties when my vision was starting to require eyeglasses, the eye doctor told me that I had gone into the wrong line of work (that being lots of office work) and that with my eyes, I should have become a fire tower lookout, So I’m guessing that this means I’m farsighted.
As my cataracts progressed, my script was changing constantly due to my experiencing second sight. This is why I reverted to using cheaper bifocals. So I don’t know how relevant those scripts would be as they were never stable. In the end, it was the extreme daytime glare on top of the night glare that did me in and made it impossible for me to do anything.
That being said, it is interesting about how the Eyhance has -0.5 D myopia effect built into it. This would explain the difference in targets previously mentioned when comparing the two options for my RE of either a ZCB00 or ICB00 IOL. This brings into light what the surgeon might actually
be aiming for, and, am hoping that, that equates to my easily being able to use my cellphone without glasses. In my case, I hold my hand out between 16” and 18”.
It also seems by the previous explaination that the further away from zero the target is, in either direction, the stronger the script. So in my case, a -1.50 target would pull in my range of focus and allow me to see things closer than a -1.25 targe range of focus. So hopefully, what he is proposing will easily capture the 16”-18” cellphone distance as well as the desktop screen which is about 24” away. I’m not worried about the dashboard, as my newly corrected LE is already easily pulling in the dashboard, which, in my case is about 30”.
I have taken the advise to reached out to my doctor and we are awaiting a call back. Our big question is whether or not he can hopefully hit a RE range that includes the 16”-18” distance to I guess 30”, as my LE is taking over beyond that. My husband is also wondering what my range of focus would be if he targeted -1.50, as somewhere between -1.25 to -1.50. It will be interested to hear what he says. Oh, in regards to the corrective difference between my eyes, we understand that this can cause issues that I prefer to avoid.
We have read about those other types of lenses and have discussed them with the doctor, but give how bad my eyes have been with the night time and daytime glare due to the cataracts, I am not interested in going with an IOL that glares, halos, or starburst might be an issue. Thanks, however, for mentioning them.
Also, due to major medical issues that have developed since my first pre-surgical with my husband, I am unwilling to put off my second eye surgery, which is schedule in a week from today, as he's going to need me to be able to drive. Right now, he's driving me because my cataracts made both day and night driving unsafe. In fact when I told the surgeon about my husband, they could not move my surgery up any closer than next Monday. So, basically the sooner my eyes are done, the sooner I'm functional again, the better.
Anyway, If we’ve interpreted anything wrong, please let us know. Additionally, if you a have further thoughts regarding my old script in relationship to my current IOL game plan, please share. once again, thanks.
RonAKA zippet
Posted
Your eyeglass prescription does show you have a moderate degree of hyperopia. As far as being a fire lookout, I suspect you do not see all that well at any distance without your eyeglasses. That is the issue with being far sighted. It hurts vision at all distances. Us short sighted people can usually read pretty good without glasses.
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Whether you are moderately myopic or moderately hyperopic does not matter much when you get an IOL. The IOL power corrects for it to bring you back to ammetropia or slightly myopic depending on your objective. The fact that the correction power for glasses is changing is somewhat irrelevant as well, as that is most likely being caused by the cataract changing the power of the natural lens. And, since the lens is being removed, that issue is gone. All the IOL has to correct for is the error in the cornea which usually is much more stable and not impacted by the cataract.
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On the issue of how much myopia is best, about all I can offer is my experience in simulating monovision with a contact. This does not exactly simulate monovision with an extended range of focus lens like the Eyhance. It would simulate what you would see with a standard monofocal like the one you got already. In any case I have about a -2.0 D required correction (myopic) in my non IOL eye. To simulate -1.25 D of monovision I use a -0.75 contact, so I only partially correct my myopia. With no glasses I have -2.0 D myopia, and I don't like that much. It is fine to shave and get dressed etc, but for computer work I find -1.25 much better. -1.5 is OK, but not quite as preferred as -1.25. Even with the -1.25 I can quite easily read a computer screen from about 16" down to 12". I can fairly easily read my iPhone at a comfortable distance.
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I think what I would ask the surgeon about if the issue of leaving a gap in vision between your distance eye and close eye. You said you can see down to 30" with the IOL eye. If you go too high with the myopia, you may end up leaving a gap between what you can see with the close eye and distance eye. With the Eyhance lens you have a bit more leeway. It is probably best to depend on the experience of the surgeon to pick the ideal amount of myopia with the Eyhance lens. Just tell him or her how close you want to see and that you don't want to leave a gap or poorer vision in the middle, or at least not at the computer screen distance.
rwbil zippet
Posted
All I can tell you is I tried monovision with contacts and I hated it, so I would be very careful of going with -1.5 especially if the other eye is on the plus side. Is your cataract to bad to try and simulate monovision with contacts first?
zippet rwbil
Posted
i cannot tell you whether or not technically my remaining cataract is too bad to try what you suggest, but what I can say is the RE isn't very functional at this point, so I suspect that means its a no go. Unfortunately, even if it was capable of a contact test drive so to speak, time is against me. The rest of this week is going to be filled with many very urgent medical appointments for my husband,
He already has stage four cancer and now for the second time, his routine testing and imaging has showed the cancer appears to have return once again, He has testing tomorrow ahead of our appointment with is surgeon at MSKCC Wednesday. The last time it returned, they were doing a biopsy the next day with major surgery shortly there after followed by another 8 months of chemo after he already went through 6 months of chemo the first go around,
So now you can see why my surgery is now set for this coming Monday and why I need my eyes fully functional. I'm not mentioning this for sympathy, but rather to explain why doing a contact trial is not really in the cards. That being said, we do have an after thought of maybe a simpler way to see how may my RE might end up. Here it is...
Since basically my LE has been given a new lease on life with it being reset to square one and since my old script shows how similar my eyes are/were back in 2017, would I be able to simulate, what I might end up being able to see with my RE, by looking threw a pair if old OTC computer glasses with my corrected LE while covering up my RE. We have in the house an old +1.25 OTC reader as well as an old +1.75 OTC reader that we used to use at the computer at times. Unfortunately, we don’t have an old +1.50 OTC reader about.
Is this a plausible idea?
RonAKA zippet
Posted
I was going to suggest using some OTC readers to simulate the myopia that may suit you the best. If you currently need +2.25 for plano distance vision, and I do my math correctly you would need a +3.50 D reader to simulate -1.25 D myopia, and a +3.75 D reader to simulate -1.5 D myopia. Another option but I really don't think it could be done physically is to put some +1.25 readers over top of your +2.25 progressives. That would put you into the -1.25 myopia range. Probably really hard to do, as would also have to just look out the top part of the progressives (or bifocals), and not the bottom.
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As I suggested earlier I would put my confidence in the surgeon if he will listen to what your outcome priorities are. Hopefully he has done hundreds of eyes before yours and will be best able to estimate your outcome. He/she is taking a sound approach to meet your needs. It is just a personal opinion, but my only criticism is that they may be going for a little too much myopia by targeting as much as 1.25 to 1.5 D on top of the Eyhance built in -0.5. I would worry a bit about it leaving a hole in the 15 to 20" range.
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Sorry to hear about your husband's diagnosis. My best wishes for success in his treatment. That must be difficult to go through for both of you on top of your cataract surgery. I am taking my wife for cataract surgery tomorrow, but fortunately I am in reasonably good health.
rwbil zippet
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I am so sorry to hear about the cancer.
You can google monovision and see some of the adverse effects some people have.
My only suggestions is if you are thinking about -1.5 d monovision make sure your doctor has done lots of monovision and knows your goals and listen to what his experience with his patients have been.
I can just tell you, I personally would never do -1.5 d of monovision but that is me. I need good distance vision in both eyes, which is why I am doing the Synergy diffractive IOL. If I had to do monovision, I would only consider micro-monovision and -0.75 at the most for me personally.
lucy24197 zippet
Edited
The unfortunate thing is that there is so much variability between one eye to the next and from person to person, so there are no guarantees. As you get into near vision, the depth of field gets smaller and smaller as the diopters get larger (more negative) so it's more difficult to guarantee you'll have good vision at a particular distance as you get more nearsighted, especially since you may not end up at the target as your eye heals. The Eyhance increases that depth of field over the ZCB00, giving a little more range in focus (and consequently a little bigger target zone.) I have ZCB00 in both eyes, so this doesn't fully apply, but I found it helpful to get some cheap readers at different powers in the range that was being considered for my 2nd (near) eye when added to where my first eye ended up. I'd test them with my first (distance) eye to get an approximation of what things would look like if my second eye was -1.0 D different from the first, -1.25D, -1.5D, etc.Eyhance should give you a little better near vision that what you see combining the readers with your ZCB00 eye, but it might give you an approximate feeling for what your vision could be like--the optimum focal point should be the same regardless of whether it's ZCB00 or Eyhance.
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You also might want to read the experience with Eyhance a couple members here have posted. They're pretty recent--eyhance review by mary27273 and My Eyhance Experience by xen42188. They talk about near vision/cell phone use if I recall correctly.
zippet
Posted
Ahhh… we see your point. After reading the last post, I actually sat at the desktop and we used a tape measure, like we did with the car. And low and behold, with the keyboard rolled out, in reality, the screen is about 30” away, similar to that of the dashboard.
The big difference is, however, the info on the dash, like how fast I’m going or whether or not the tank is getting near empty, is all in rather large print. The desktop not so much. I covered my right eye and look at email, chat, and news articles and it was not sharp with my LE. If I had too, in a pinch, I could make it out, but would prefer not to struggle.
We are still awaiting our call back and will ask about what in reality I can expect with the proposed target as well as the one my husband was wondering about. I suspect, by what is being said here, that a range that has a -1.50 target might present some issues. I’ll keep you all posted.
zippet
Posted
Thank you for your well wishes. Although we were caught off guard, as he has been doing well after his second go round, we are still trying to remain positive, as it is possible that the imaging irregularities might be due to a problem with the hepatic pump that was implanted to help combat his colorectal liver cancer. If this is the case, it would still mean major surgery to correct the problem but it wouldn't mean another cancer setback. And that would be a good thing.
So back to my eyes, thanks for that suggestion. I will definitely try that. Perhaps if I pop the lens out of the reader frame, it would be easier to hold up against the upper part of my old progressive lenses.
Meanwhile, we got a call back from the surgical coordinator. She is who I reached out to earlier today with our question regarding what I would be able to see with a target of -1.50. She passed along the doctor’s answer, as today was a surgery day for him.
He said a target of -1.50 with the Eyhance IOL would bring the focus of my RE to be able to read at about 12”-14” and my RE would see distance at about 20/60. And, since we realized we actually don’t know the equivalent type of numbers for the proposed -1.25 target, I asked if she could get back to me with those numbers.
And along those lines, given I don’t know what the RE distance simulation was actually showing me 20/X-wise, I don’t know if the simulation was showing me distance as 20/60 or was it more like 20/30 or something in between. If it was as I suspect more like 20/30 or 40, then I don’t believe I’d be okay with the -1.50 causing 20/60 distance in my RE.
I'll keep you posted with what she gets back to me with. Thanks again.
RonAKA zippet
Edited
Based on a quick look at the Eyhance defocus curves I would agree with those numbers.
For a -1.5 D target.
Distance - 20/60
Close - 20/32 at 13.5"
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For a -1.25 target I would expect about
Distance - 20/45
Close - 20/32 at 15"
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For -1.0 Target:
Distance - 20/32
Close - 20/32 at 16"