Coming off Olanzapine

Good on you!.

Why did they sue Eli Lilly.

What were the damages?.

Cheers Marbel

all the best

andy

oh diabetes.   I also see on Zyprexavictims website that there is a link to a 1.4 billion dollar pay out by Eli Lily because they were incorrectly marketing the drug through reps for the elderly in rest homes, children in foster homes and for people who not sleeping well when it is only FDA approved for bi-polar and schizophrenia.  However the money went to the whistleblowers and not the people (victims)who were incorrectly medicated. Marbel

sounds like you have a plan that could work for you.  I swear sometimes these shrinks don't know any thing about how to get on and off these drugs or like you say how their effectiveness works.  all the best   Marbel

That sounds stressful for you both.  I am not sure what you said your partner was having bad effects from - the olanzapine or depression controlling his life?. 

I don't think I can help much except the shrink I saw 23 years ago said his rule of thumb was stay on anti psychotic for six months then if it happens again two years then if happens again for life.  But there are probably other ideas by now. 

I have also read that abrupt cessation can induce psychosis.  I am not a psychiatrist and maybe you know a good one who can give you both some advice at this stage. Also maybe there is a group in your area supporting families who have family members with mental illness?. All the best

Marbel

I can totally understand both of your worries. I have been on Olanzapine for 10 years. Started on 10mg a night. I have over the past 2/3 years gtton myself down to .625mg. I tries a few times to go cold turkey and while it was ok for a short time eventually I too started to have bad nights, listening intently etc etc. I know how he feels. I had a breakthrough just a few months ago. I got my usual script of 2.5mg from the chemist and went home. That day for the first time I read the packet...it said take 1 tablet 3 times a "DAY" .(I had through my psych only been taking 1 tablet) but at night. I thought straight away "why am I taking these at night when it says in the day??

I immediately started talking them first thing in the morning at 7.00am.

The change was immediate. The first two days I crashed at around 11.30-12pm for abot 90 mins. that slowly subsided and now I do a full day no problem. I have not missed an hours sleep at night. I go straight to sleep pretty much and the things that used to affect me, such as intently listening have pretty much gone. When I do have this I am able to much more easily cope.

The only conclusion I can draw from all this si that the medication was wearing off by the time I woke in the morning so my days were often lethargic, uneventful and almost depressing. The meds only knocked me out at night.

Since going onto daytime meds I have dropped right down to.625mg a day. Everything is more clear, more energy etc. I too suffered from psychotic attacks so I believe I know what your husband is experiencing Im not saying this is the be all and end all of remidies but so far it is working for me. I just cant believe I was taking this stuff at night for so long.

hope that helps.

Colin

About 3 to 4 weeks ago my lovely doctor put me on valium because I was experiencing extremem anxiety, depression and I was planning suicide. I have never ever in my life up until that time felt that depressed, I believe that the olanzipine was causing this, the olanzipine seems to have no mood balancing effect for me. I am looking forward to very slowly weaning myself off of this evil drug.

It is nice to hear that u are having positive results with it, it is not the case with me.

Some newest research advocates taking the drug during an acute phase and for a short time after and then coming off the drug rather than meds for life see Martin Harrow "Do anti psychotics worsen long-term Schizophrenia outcomes".   When I read this article I thought of those people in my community living in sheltered homes who are obviously highlymedicated and their cognitive and work abilities appear quite diminished.

Unfortunately long term use can also make you more vunerable to psychosis should you decide to come off.  I think this is called neurotransmitter sensitivity.see Martin Harrow

For myself having been on an anti psychotic continuosly for 17 years  with no symptoms I thought I could give it a shot this last 6 months but yes my bizarre thinking did come back and it does take time to recover from this.  But I am glad I gave it a shot and have found the support on this forum invaluable. I have a niggling fear in mind that also the depression I experienced after my two other psychotic breaks may return and I also find the anxiety of the experience uncomfortable, and the sleep disturbance unsettling as I search for my happy place again.  If things are working well for you  now Mervyn and you have had a damned hard time of it in the past don't be afraid to  go with what is working for you. 

I am sure because my try of getting off this drug was unsuccessful I will prob live with the fact that having a happy life without psychosis, anxiety and post depression can be acheived by taking this drug (2.5mg).  I am also resigned to the fact that my brain has changed due to taking the drug for so long that it will also require me to continue.  People who stay on anti depressents for long lengths of time find this too ie their brain chemistry has changed so that they will be drug dependent to reach the serotonin levels they need to be happy.

Fortunately I avoided being sectioned by increasing my meds when my sleep and appetite became disturbed and I gained insight!. Thanks Mervyn and glad things are better for you these days

Marbel

I believe most of the posts on here who are anti this drug are those who have been taking it for a long period, 7-8 years plus. Myself, I have been on this drug for 11 years. I do not believe you can stay on this drug for an extended period without problems arising. The drug comes with serious health warnings for a reason. Without sounding blunt I also believe the only road to recovery is changing and creating a life that is in balance. By that I mean you need to face reality and understand what was wrong with your life that brought psychosis on and then build a life that will ensure that does not happen again. Simply stopping the meds and hoping everything will be ok does not work. In most cases it means a complete transformation ie: new mental outlook, new friends, new jobs, new home, new diet, new hobbies/pastimes etc. Why? Because once you have experienced the effects of psychosis such as hearing voices, seeing things, abstract thinking etc the people, job and the life you have been living up until then are not compatible. That sounds like a step to far for 9 out of 10 people with any form of mental illness/health...whatever you want to call it so the option they are left with is to go on the meds, but nothing has changed in reality except you are now drug dependant to help you block out everything that made you mentally ill in the first place.

But, there are other people out there who have been through it and now live a healthy happy life, you just have to find them.

Here is a thought..."Psychosis is defined as delusional thinking or having false beliefs that affect your life." With that in mind and remebering that most people who experience psychosis have "real" experiences, as far as they are concered, such as hearing voices etc, then, if you look at what the mainstream are saying is "normal" and "actual reality"...all you have to do is simply google the number of people who are christians, muslims, jews...you will find that nearly 3.9 billion people firmly and unequivacally believe in a god. To date there is not one piece of documented evidence that god exists yet 2/3rds of the worlds population belive this to be true. These people who have this form of thinking and hold this belief are walking around ours streets, our doctors, lawyers, bakers, taxi car drivers. How many are taking medication for this thinking and belief? probably none. The point of that example is to highlight that if you believe what people tell you without questioning it or doing your research you will simply believe what they tell you. Just because the experiences of psychosis are for the most part unpleasant does not mean they cant be worked through and understood. Through pain and suffering comes growth. My experiences are real. I do not expect others to understand something they have not experienced, therefore I just keep enhancing my life as best as possible because in the long term my experiences will become apparent to others. Psychosis is not a curse, it is something to take hold of, learn from and overcome, even if that takes you the rest of your life. I am unique because of my psychosis experiences and in a world where everyone looks, thinks and talks the same that is something to cherish and hold on to.

Best of health to you Mervyn.

Thank you for your response and thought-provoking insights. I am in full agreement with you in the sense that I think you understand psychosis to be rather complex but also something that is worth trying to understand. I don't believe in all but one aspect of my psychotic behaviours and thoughts so I guess that is somewhat contradictory. I do believe in spiritual realms to our existence or more aptly, my own existence as I have no right to inflict or impose my own views upon others. I don't consider my faith to be delusional but it comes at a price- just as much as I believe in the forces of good, I also believe in forces of evil and corruption too. I don't use this as an escape mechanism but personally it gives me strength and willingness to accept my own mortality here at present. Prayer & meditation have helped me in the past year to reconcile my difficulties with periods of peace which can be intermittent but also help me to feel whole as a person. Conversely, I also thoroughly respect the values and opinions of atheists and agnostics. My constant impression of them is that they are some of the gentlest and intellectually motivated beings who add to each of our experiences of life, (again just my own opinion). I have met with some of the most bigoted and unpleasant characters inside the walls of churches but I don't let that deter me from pursuing my faith. Since revisiting my faith, I don't see in any way coincidental that I now take half the neuroleptics I took for years at alarmingly high doses. I still take olanzapine and lamotrogine at their recommended maximum dosages and have done so for over seven years now. I practise complementary methods as well to try to boost my inner-strength to help me to cope better with my bipolar diagnosis. Reiki; Homeopathy; Creative Writing; Mystery Dining and Voluntary work all help to give me a sense of awareness and enable me to follow a direction of enrichment and fulfillment.

Ultimately I have to be very sceptical and cautious about giving credence toward my psychotic episodes. The dangers with which they manifested brought me close to either committing homocide or suicide and I strongly don't believe that this duality has any relevance or acceptability. I was ill and in urgent need of help. I now take very seriously my responsibility to not harm others, whatever about myself, but the only method, (and I may be wrong here) is to resolutely commit to taking anti-psychotic and mood stabilising medication to prevent the likelihood that I would act on these intentions which can't be understood or considered anything other than a symptom of mental illness. I don't think that anybody would suggest that murder is acceptable in society. It is true that there were many triggers to my mania which included being sacked from two teaching posts, one after the other; my Mum dying of cancer and a debilitating savage alcohol dependent syndrome and poly substance abuse. The latter makes the prognosis for the affects of bipolar on an individual to be significantly worsened. Interestingly, whilst I was teaching, my students nicknamed me 'Switch' which was quite a telling description for my erratic behaviour in the classroom. They in effect determined something long before any Dr's did. I had intrusive thoughts and distorted thinking and I don't think there was any real purpose to feeling like this. Eventually, I became grandiose, spending vasts amounts of money and eventually declaring bankruptcy to the tune of tens of thousands. Rather than go to work one Monday morning, I took a flight to Paris where I aspired to be a dancer. When I became acutely unwell with psychosis, I heard voices coming from my DVD player; my thoughts about God swung from delightful feelings to terrifying other hallucinations where I felt evil spirits all around me in my house. I refuse to believe that this level of psychosis is worth analysing. Nothing can describe the pain & danger both I and others were in. There's nothing logical or rational about this; no sense in trying to come to terms or intellectually accept or attach any meaning to these experiences. The bottom line was I was profoundly unwell and in need of urgent medical care. I trust and respect the psychiatrists who have since being treating me and the role of science is an influencing factor in coming to terms with brain abnormalities. I first became impaired when I was diagnosed with depersonalisation at the age of 24. Nothing felt real and I thought that in death I would still experience pain. I completely lost any sense of identity. All of this to my mind adds up to a pointlessness and irrelevance. I am comfortable with being labeled mentally unwell at times and in my opinion medication helps to control this. As a consequence of my behaviour during mania I now also have a treatable, but chronic immunological disease. Coming to terms with all of this spiked my mania. I firmly agree that bipolar is a stress related disorder but to reiterate, psychosis, in my opinion, is just an indication of sickness. A very high amount of an anti-depressant also sky rocketed my mood. 

I never ever wish to harm others but my fear about coming off medication might trigger a similar episode of psychosis of which I have described. 

Thank you you for illuminating some insight into the impressions from others of how they deal with their illness and view the world. I love that we are all journeying along individual paths to what might be the same destination or not.

Best Regards,

Mervyn.

Thank you for your response and encouraging words. Bipolar can be quite a lonely illness so getting affirmations from others is a real support. I can see why you have decided to remain on olanzapine, albeit at perhaps a smaller dose. I did read, however, that olanzapine is one of the only drugs used long-term to treat mania. Worryingly though, I hadn't heard that discontinuing olanzapine after many years of use can lead to psychosis. That's a worrying thought but I did also read that psychiatrists sometimes switch the anti-psychotic drug, whether typical or atypical, and monitor closely through medical supervision, to minimise the chances of a psychotic break that can occur in the switching over process. 

Good of for you for increasing your meds when your sleep and appetite became disturbed. It takes courage to show insight rather than risk further damage to your brain. It was also brave of you to try to come off your meds and return to them when problems arose. You are inspiring me to have an upfront chat with my psychiatrist when I see her next about where I'm currently at in terms of olanzapine. I will ask her about the drug's shortcomings and pitfalls and weigh these up with advantages to taking this particular medication. It's still a scary thought to think that I might have to take olanzapine long-term but so far, so good. Who knows, within a few years or so they may come up with a complimentary drug which will support its use. 

I I hope you are having a lovely weekend.

Cheers,

Mervyn. 

Thank you for your response and encouraging words. Bipolar can be quite a lonely illness so getting affirmations from others is a real support. I can see why you have decided to remain on olanzapine, albeit at perhaps a smaller dose. I did read, however, that olanzapine is one of the only drugs used long-term to treat mania. Worryingly though, I hadn't heard that discontinuing olanzapine after many years of use can lead to psychosis. That's a worrying thought but I did also read that psychiatrists sometimes switch the anti-psychotic drug, whether typical or atypical, and monitor closely through medical supervision, to minimise the chances of a psychotic break that can occur in the switching over process. 

Good of for you for increasing your meds when your sleep and appetite became disturbed. It takes courage to show insight rather than risk further damage to your brain. It was also brave of you to try to come off your meds and return to them when problems arose. You are inspiring me to have an upfront chat with my psychiatrist when I see her next about where I'm currently at in terms of olanzapine. I will ask her about the drug's shortcomings and pitfalls and weigh these up with advantages to taking this particular medication. It's still a scary thought to think that I might have to take olanzapine long-term but so far, so good. Who knows, within a few years or so they may come up with a complimentary drug which will support its use. 

I I hope you are having a lovely weekend.

Cheers,

Mervyn. 

Thanks for your  replies.  Thankfully we can converse. For many years I knew only my cousin who had had psychotic illness and over the years I have met another two people who have also had.  They are great productive and loving people. They do not take meds as they only had one psychotic episode.

I was diagnosed with a psychotic illness rather than  bi-polar which is why I have been on olanzapine.  Mervyn I think there are three possible vunerabilities to becoming psychotic when coming off this drug  ie 1.  you have come off too quickly, 2.  you have developed neuro sensitivity due to long term use and 3.  The illness is not controlled at a low dose, that is the illness has returned.  However I am not sure how this looks for someone who is taking the drug for bi-polar with psychotic features.   possibly the same?. or who is using the drug to control mood who is bi-polar?. 

Any way sometimes I get bogged in the medical side of these things!.  You know one of the motivating features for me to get off the drug was that they tested it on dogs at very high doses and really I did not want to be a part of that as it made very unpleasant and upsetting reading.

Yesterday I had a breakthrough in understanding the bizarre thoughts that I was connected to someone else who was not my partner and realised that the lesson is I need to 'love and accept myself'. No one else can validate me and I do not need the acceptance of others to be ok about me.  If that makes sense.  Coming to this understanding is helping me to integrate the experience and move forward, as you suggested in your reply Colin.   I can see my other two psychotic breaks were around similar issues.

Maybe those of us who experience these things are highly sensitive individuals.  Often brought on by very stressful events like Mervyn mentioned he had in his life. 

Hello to you both.  Have a great Sunday

Marbel

Thanks for bringing up the points you did. It seems psychotic illness and bipolar have very similar features and that the course of both of these illnesses are similar to each other. Olanzapine, as well as being an anti-psychotic, also helps to stabilise the affective part of bipolar disorder. As I'm sure you already know, it also has a sedative effect which can help assist sleep. I don't agree with people though when they say that olanzapine is an addictive drug. I think it's mood stabilising rather than mind altering. Sounds confusing I know but if you take say for example, benzodiazepams, they are highly addictive and eventually need to be increased to higher amounts by users for their affect to be achieved. They also stop working after long-term use and the symptoms people experienced when starting the benzodiazapeine return and worsen. I think people can become dependent on olanzapine but not actually addicted to it. 

Stressful events are a definite trigger for bipolar! How are you coping with your psychotic illness? It sounds like you are very together. I like what you wrote about loving and accepting yourself. When I think of thoughts like this, they give me a lot of respite from the onslaught of negative feelings I experience that are relentless at times.

Kindest Regards,

Mervyn.

I wasn't saying people of faith are delusional...I was merely showing a comparative argument in beliefs and what we believe is real.

Thats all. You have to own this thing, make it yours, just like you do if you believe in god.

Have a good day mate.

Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you. Thank you for your message. I hope things are continuing to settle down for you. It sounds like you've been in a lot of emotional pain and mental anguish. I wholly sympathise with this and I hope your prescription for diazepam is helping you out. I cannot ever bear anxiety, it's the worst feeling in the world and I'm not surprised you felt as desperate as you did. Olanzapine must affect people differently. I find it does help to stabilise my mood but of course each individual will respond differently to any type of drug. Knowledge is power though so recognising your symptoms will help you to understand your condition better. 

I hope your new drug regimen will be successful for you. Thank you for sharing with me. It's helpful to hear other people's experiences of the same meds I am taking.

Best Wishes,

Mervyn.

I hope you are well. I read your message to Marbel a few days ago and I just want to share a couple of thoughts with you because some of our experiences are similar.

Like you, I also experienced a major psychosis which was partly triggered by the high amount of anti-depressant I was taking. I was hospitalised on a ward and immediately taken off the anti-depressant. I've since learnt that the anti-depressant was partly responsible for triggering my mania or psychotic break from reality. I was diagnosed with Bipolar Affective Disorder and olanzapine is one of the drugs I have being taken since that time. Olanzapine also helps to treat my depressive symptoms. I do need lots of sleep but I no longer feel zombied-out. This took a long time though. I've also been told that psychiatrists are very reluctant to prescribe anti-depressants to people with Bipolar Disorder. I'm not sure if this is your diagnosis but I can relate to the type of psychosis you experienced. I thought I had supernatural powers. I also think that psychiatrists prefer to keep patients on olanzapine on a maintenance dose for as long as possible to prevent the same type of psychosis reoccurring. 

I am glad you are no longer depressed. Taking Lamotrogine has significantly helped me with depressive symptoms. I wish you luck in reducing the amount of olanzapine you take.

Regards,

Mervyn.

sorry it has taken me ages to reply but I have been getting myself together really well.  I decided to stop splitting my dose about 10 days ago and now taking my whole 2.5 mg at night.  I have found this has helped with my sleeping and that is no longer a problem!.  YAY I was so sick of dragging myself through the day on 5 or 6 hours sleep.

I have been really productive around the home and still need to get more paid work but going to hold off putting myself out there for a week or two or longer? and concentrate on sewing and painting at home.

I do quite a bit of reading of spiritual books and what I read and believe is that we are all connected and we are all spiritual creative beings and that we are all acceptable and loveable just as we are and all we are asked on earth is to be ourselves and that is enough!. So ditch those negative thoughts eveyone and celebrate that you are great as you are! There are angels and the spiritual realm there that we can all call on when we need help too.  Sorry I may sound a bit out there and mad but not at this moment ha ha.  These beliefs help me problematic times and in good times too.

Peace Marbel

just a pointer watch out for the sugar content in Grape Juice.  Great you are coming off the Olanzapine.

Marbel

That is yourself and one other who have mentioned that the high level of anti-depressant caused psychosis.  I had not heard of that before and that is very unfortunate that you had that complication in your life when you were struggling with depression.  I am thankful for you that you are not depressed any more and your psychiatrist sounds helpful!

CheersMarbel

Thank you for messaging me. It looks like you've been going through a lot and it also sounds like you are being very brave and matter of fact about your conditions. This is inspiring and must make you a practical and honest, assertive individual. Personally, I do feel concerned from time to time about diabetes. I have a very high sugar intake. Like you mentioned, I also heard that olanzapine can influence this condition being brought about. I take 20mg of Olanzapine nightly so I suppose I need to be mindful about how I manage my health. I am really happy though about a decision I made recently. I've been a smoker for 25 years and two weeks ago I gave up so I am hoping that this will have a very positive impact upon my overall health. My local chemist has been very supportive in terms of me accessing support to help me make this transition to become a non-smoker. I was interested to read that your pharmacist is playing a pivotal role in terms of liaising with your psychiatrist. That's encouraging because I'm not used to using this particular outlet. I think the experience of pharmacists sometimes gets overlooked. I tend to depend upon the experience of my own psychiatrists. I have a consultation on Wednesday and will have a lot to discuss. To be honest, I'm very worried about attempting to reduce the amount of olanzapine I take. I'm concerned that my sleeping pattern will become affected. I easily slip into very uncomfortable feelings of anxiety so being unable to sleep easily would impact on my well-being. I walk quite a thin line between wellness and the vulnerabilities of having severe depression or even a psychotic episode again which would help nobody. I've also been lapsing into alcohol and painkillers again which for obvious reasons jeopardise my chances of maintaining a stable mood. I do hope I can get to grips with my dependency upon substances that I misuse as I am only creating more, unnecessary stress for myself and my relationships with others when I indulge in these harmful behaviours. I also worry that I will exhaust patience from my Drs who have always raised serious concerns about my addictions history. I hope though that their professionalism will enable me to remain a patient worthy of their attention and diligence. 

I find Lamotrogine to be a thoroughly effective drug. I hope that you will reap the benefits from this particular mood stabiliser. I take my dose in the mornings which I feel helps me to have a bright and optimistic outlook as I face the day. Having lamotrogine as part of my drug regimen has assisted me in the seven years I've been taking it to not have serious depressive symptoms. It's amazing really because it's not actually known why this drug helps with patients suffering from Bipolar Disorder. It's usually used to treat epilepsy but has been found to help stabilise the mood of bipolar sufferers.

I was really interested to read about the portable brain scan you mentioned. It sounds very high-tech! I have an appointment to see a neurologist next month to discuss the possibility of peripheral neuropathy because of my alcohoism. The nerve endings in my stomach become affected when I consume even small amounts of alcohol. Like I said my drinking is starting to take a toll on my health so I just hope I will have the strength & courage to abstain. 

It's very thoughtful of you to keep in touch. I hope your meeting concerning support around your diabetes goes very well next week. Well done on making the effort to make the changes that will help you now and in the long term.

Mervyn.

Thank you for your message. Don't worry about taking your time to decide if you wish to write or not. You have already given me a lot of support and I appreciate that. 

I could never cope with 5-6 hours sleep! It hits me very hard when I'm tired and I barely function when this happens. I tend to need upwards of 9 hours sleep and I find then that I have plenty of energy to cope effectively. It's nice to read that you have interests such as painting & sewing. My mother did everything around the house whilst I grew up so I never really made the effort to acquire these skills myself. I love colours though so there is an artistic side there somewhere! To my shame though, some of my clothes have missing buttons so slowing down and doing things more gently might help me to relax enough to take care of my needs.

I do quite a lot of voluntary work at a food bank in my local area. It's very helpful for my state of mind. However, the harder I work tends to cause me intrusive thoughts whereby I give myself permission to succumb to my age old addictions and in particular to alcohol. I know most people enjoy a few drinks but I lost the ability to drink safely many years ago and the effects of alcohol have begun to take a toll on my health. I'm quite proud at the moment though that I've quit smoking. Asides from my mental health I also have an immunological disease so taking better care of my health should remain a priority for me. In regards to drinking, I've noticed that as soon as I'm committing myself to lots of activity I tend, rather foolishly, to reward myself with alcohol. It's a vicious cycle and I don't wish to underestimate the affect that that this is having upon me and my relationships with others. Please God though, I will find and maintain a sound sobriety. I used to be a teacher but this was having disastrous effects upon my health. My former psychiatrist told me that I would most likely never work again. Quite a scary thought but who knows a contented sobriety might bring about so far untold periods of success in my overall wellbeing. 

I share are with you my profound interest in spiritual realms. I try always to consider and value the role of my Guardian Angel in my life. I don't doubt or believe it coincidental that prayer & meditation brought about my unexpected  drop of two of the medications I used to take. I was taking as many as 14 tablets per day and now this has been halved. I didn't pray for this but finding greater serenity and appreciation of the elements that make up my life created enough space to allow the infiltration of positive changes. It was also thought for a couple of years that I had an Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder but following three rigorous and gruelling assessments I was told that this was an inaccurate diagnosis. It may be that I had traits of this disorder but I firmly believe now that prayer & meditation have spared me from this further condition. 

I hope you are well Marbel. Spring has arrived albeit a little windy but it's a very nice time of year nonetheless.

Best Wishes

Mervyn.