27 year old with prolapse disc and degenerateive changes
Posted , 8 users are following.
Hi
I'm really after some help, I'm 27 and 6 weeks ago after an MRI after experiencing terrible lower back pain (unable to get out of bed, numb legs and lack of sensation to urinate) was given an emergency MRI.
The results of which although unusual for my age were reassuring, I was told I had "degenerative changes in the lower 3 levels, with high signal in the annulus at L3/4 and a central disc prolapse at L5/S1 with significant spasm from the mid thoracic area to the gluts"
I've been prescribed various pain relief (naproxen, tramadol, diazepam, paracetamol) which has all been hit and miss as a cocktail. I've lost my appetite and had some sickness and a definite lack of energy. I've lost around a stone and Im a size 8 so don't really want or can afford to drop much more.
6 weeks on the pain in my lower back and legs is still present although I can mobilise much more. I've also noticed my left arm, neck and upper spine is also in agony now so my pain specialist has requested a full spine MRI (rather than just lumber like last time) this week. The other notable thing is that my reflexes are very overactive.
Has anyone experienced anything similar? Previous to this I've always been healthy and never suffered back pain. Would love some help?
Thank you.
0 likes, 19 replies
Kenza S123456
Posted
I would recommend a private osteopath or physiotherapist who can help in identifying the cause together with your gp. Whenever you meet any health professional do ask these questions.
Once you know the cause you can make sure you don't continue damaging your body and can learn how to improve it by regular stretching, strengthening, good posture whatever you do and good diet.
Hope it helps.
Check out spine-health videos to help visualise what's going in your back.
minnie4 S123456
Posted
the morphine patch makes you feel sick to begin with but once they are in your system it really helps with the muscular pain but as far as the nerve pain goes the only thing that touches it is the Gabapentin and the maximum dose is 3600 daily and I am waiting for this dose to be increased.
At the moment my symptoms include severe twitching and muscle spasms all over my body, I walk with a limp, it feels like I have a brick in my back, and I am lucky if I am able to urinate once a day and only then if I use an electric hot blanket on my stomach. I wake up every night in tears and near to screaming with the burning sensation from my buttock to my foot and I have lost the sensation in my toes in my left foot and the latest symptoms in the last three weeks is numbness in my fingers to both hands and a dry blurry eye. I am assuming some of these symptoms will be side effects to the medications but unfortunately the surgeon who,ordered,the first MRI was if the opinion I had herniated three lumber discs while the second surgeon said he suspected not only this but facet issues. This was denied by the first surgeon.
We ended. Up asking for a copy of our last MRI which as we had asked for it within 30 days of it being done cost us nothing and we took the disc and the written result for a second opinion. I was told I had herniated discs in my neck, spondylitis in the thoracic region, three slipped discs in my lumber region and facet syndrome. I was told there was no need to leave me in the level of pain I had been in and that injections were available to numb my spine and enable me to build up my inner core so I could support my spine a different way to enable me to have a quality of life. He has written his recommendations for us to take back to the hospital and asked us to go back if we are fobbed off with tablets as once the injections are performed I can stop taking all the tablets and the morphine patch before I am addicted.
i would recommend you get a copy of your MRI and get a second opinion. I would also recommend you apply for PIP which is something else I was advised to apply for, and got. That helps me to pay for someone to help me with things I cannot do and finally apply for Access to Work if you are still trying to work. Your GP will be asked to write a letter explaining why you would be unable to get a bus or train to work, and you will then b able to get a taxi to and from home and you will have to pay a minimal amount. My taxi fare is £15 and I pay £1.25.
unfortunately no one will tell you about these benefits unless they have been through it too, lucky you have found a site wher people are more than happy to. As on their experience to put your mind at risk that your symptoms are 'usual' for your diagnosis even though still unbearable and also what other drugs are available and what help you can apply for.
i wish you well. Keep us informed of your progress.
x
S123456 minnie4
Posted
I've been fast tracked initially by the NHS because of loss of sensation, but I am also fortunate enough to have medical insurance through work.
My neurosurgeon did put me forward for a steroid epidural but the pain specialist refused to do it as my back was spasming so much he believed it would be too painful and dangerous. Now I've had diazepam and started Physio to relax my muscles he may revisit it. I think they just want to make sure the full MRI doesn't show anything else as the injections work best if the pain is localised and mine has spread.
The info on the taxi is extremely interesting as I'm a bit of a workaholic and the pain of driving without drugs and safety of driving with them isn't working so I'm paying for expensive taxis or getting lifts, I will certainly look into that.
Thank you so much. I really hope you get your injections, I've already learnt you have to be firm with them, but it's your body so make sure you get the best treatment :-)
suzanne136 S123456
Posted
10 months down the line after been hospitalised for a week and 2 sets of injections into my sacroiliac joint and root nerve injections I am walking much better still need a walking stick and if I am out for more than a few hrs have trouble walking and getting up and turning in bed.
The bottom part of my one foot is completely numb the consultant doubts if this will get better.I am under the pain management team who think I have a problem with my sacroiliac joint.I still feel it is the siatica.My Mri showd 3 bulding discs 1 pressing on the nerve degeneration and damage to the L5-S1 disc also.
Since the second lot of injections I have improved alot but I have a constant ache sort of like a headache going from my bum all the way to my foot.Still on medication, paracetamsl twice a day,ibrupofen twice a day.gabapentin twice a fay,tramodol twice a day and deluxatine once a day
Have morphine and diazepam if needed.I hope you get sorted
I have an appointment in Feb and am going to ask to be referred for a second opinion as im only 45 anf the thought of living with this for the rest of.my life scares me.
Let us know how you get on x
minnie4 S123456
Posted
im six months in and no better. Private insurance? I would be pushing much harder for better treatment earlier otherwise you too could end up where so many of us are with the permanent limp, on constant pain relief to the point of being junkies when there is treatment available but too expensive so not offered until you happen to have £25,000 in your back pocket.
is there the equivalent if the pdsa for humans? I think quite a few dr's and specialists and care commissioners would have a lot of questions to answer to justify their actions.
boob jobs, tummy tucks etc all available as the patient has depression. Not belittling their situation but do they hit think what we suffer from will ultimately lead to depression?
sorry for the rant. 😥 It's one if those nights/mornings.
annie77 minnie4
Posted
Have you spoken to an occupational therspist?
S123456 minnie4
Posted
With the pain injection both parts were private so I'm confused too. The private neurosurgeon asked the pain specialist to give me the injection but he refused at the time as he said my back was spasming so much there was no way I could handle the pain and he couldn't guarantee he wouldn't do more harm. At that stage I think he just thought the pain was secondary in my muscles but now is more concerned as the diazepam hasn't helped.
The symptoms in my arm seem to be worse today, I can't hold a drink in my left hand which is more more extreme and unexplained as my damage is in the lumber region.
Do you know how long a full spine MRI takes? They've booked in my follow up just over a week later, wish it was sooner.
Don't give up, we all need to stay positive. I know it's an obvious one (and I want to scream sometimes when people try to help with simple advice!) but maybe try a warm bath, then your medication, heat patches, have you tried folding a mattress protector (the chunky ones) in the top half of your bed with plenty of pillows and one between your knees? May be useless to you, but sure we are all after any tips at this stage!
AmiDarling S123456
Posted
I've had problems on and off for the last 10 yrs due to cheffing but was only given my 1st MRI 3 yrs ago. Since then I've had 3 of my lower back and I full back.
I have tried many different pain killers, Tramadol and Diazepam worked for abit, gabepentol and Baclofen did nothing, Naproxen made me feel sick and now I'm on Amitriptyline which I started off on 10mg then 20mg now 25mg and Tramadol when needed but it's losing effectiveness.
I had epidural nerve injections and they made no difference whatsoever.
We have discussed surgery but it's not a route I'm keen to go down because they have explained to me that any success is normally on nerve pain and not back pain and although at 1st the sciatic pain was worse now the back pain out waY's it.
These last 2 days have been agony and I have found very little strength when trying to stand to the point where when I do get to my feet, I will be bent over and physically unable to actually stand myself up which is scary.
I am finding it very hard mentally that however willing I am mentally to do something, my body is not playing ball.
I have already lost my job - my career - and am feeling quite overwhelmed by the effects of living with long term pain =(
annie77 AmiDarling
Posted
minnie4 S123456
Posted
whats the criteria for qualifying for a chair bed? My partner, who does not live with me is worn out and can't take anymore so I'm going to end up trying to look after myself. I can't stand long enough to cook, I can't reach my built in microwave I can't get lids off tins and is he leaves it for me lidless I eat the contents cold as its too dangerous trying to lift it as I have lost sensation in some of my fingers.
once I reach the point of real depression maybe I will qualify for care in ther community!
annie77 minnie4
Posted
If they don't, you could request a self directed payment to buy one yourself?
For the microwave - perhaps a plastic pot with one handle would be helpful? That way you only need to use one hand to lift it in/out and the other hand to support yourself on the counter?
Did they offer you any equipment for the bath or shower?
Enna1 S123456
Posted
At your age I was going to Osteopaths, physios etc. none of whom did me any good Bless you, you are so young to have these problems - have you tried yoga. I did exercise - jumping about etc. and never thought yoga would help me but it does there are lots of stretching in yoga which you need to do, think of your discs touching one another - you need to stretch them out. I don't care a damn, no-one knows me, if I am in pain, i sit on the nearest bench(Benidorm lol) chair (our park) and wall (in the midde of Valencia) I think I have mentioned above that its all to do with stretching your back. :look at spine health videos.
LOOK ar this website, it has over the years helped me.......http://z6.invisionfree.com/adrsupportuk/index.php?showtopic=1969
I have difficulty in getting my Pazital down and together with lyrica but had lots of meds through the years.
You MUST get a referral to a neurosurgeon, I don't know what country you live in so don't know what your circumstances are. You have your MRI, take it to a professional although I suspect he will want his own MRIs doing. Is your pain in your groin? Is it also on the left side of your buttock? It may possibly be something you are doing at work but its only a guess. Bed rest is one of the things you shouldn't do, but its really hard when you are in pain to exercise.
Do you sit at a desk?
I have had no side affects like you but have noticed other things like if I have a full bladder or bowel I have worse pain.
Hopefully someone will come and help you - I have actually heard of these side affects but its a long time ago and haven't much of a clue now. Have you been on the forum for Spine Health or ADRSupportUK? I am sure you may almost certainly get your answers. There are a lot of experienced people who can answer your questions on the forum. Its OK Kenza saying that you may have bad posture etc. etc. but at the end of the day you need stabilizing so that you don't have this pain. Have you tried heat on part of your body? Did you have an accident - fall off your bike or fell down stairs or something like that. I don't think posture at your age has anything to go by but it was an osteopath who put me in the right direction to begin with but that was years ago and I am just about now learning about the spine and what it can do
Look at spine health videos (spine health is a fantastic website) I get newsletters on facebook - but..... you need to find out first what the problem is if its prolapsed discs a surgeon is needed for advice. Can you not be referred to a surgeon via the dr?
Keep in touch, you could be my daughter, and I feel for you. I only go on this forum but I do ask questions when Spine Health is on facebook and they almost always answer....
But do ask a question (as above) on ADRSupportUK and they have tons of experience and will answer you.
Keep in touch, not that I can help but at least its someone to chat to and if you are in pain, we are all experienced....
john11891 S123456
Posted
I first hurt my back at age 28 back in 1986 and now its 2016 - Ive had 12 back operations and a fusion at L4 L5 in 1999. My initial injury caused the disc to splinter into 5 pieces - so 5 operations in 18 months - they found one fragment at a time and refused to believe i was still in pain.
From what I read about your event it sounds like you do need a complete MRI of neck, thorasic and limbar spine. If you have that much spasm or twitching it could be a sign of nerve root impingement. Muscle twitching is a definite sign of a nerve problem and you need to find out the cause. Look into a Nerve Study or EMG - it will check for nerve problems. Also a Myloegram - dye injected into spinal chord while under xray and then its followed with a CT Scan. The symptoms you give are nothing to fool around with and you need to find a doctor that will look and look till they find a cause. You are too young to have such problems and you need to know the exact cause. As far as the injection and the spasm, the Dr. could do more harm than good if that needle isnt set perfectly and with lots of spasm and twitching a needle could rupture the sheath that sorrounds the nerve chord and cause severe damage. Valium works great for me for spasm along with other pain meds - taken as directed.
What worries me is all the numbness and radiating pain with weakness. Those are all signs of nerve damage or compression and you need to know the cause. A good Dr. should test until you have an answer.
A Chiropractor helped me a lot, more than a medical Dr. The Chiro used lots of moist heat, ultra sound and muscle stimulation along with massage of the muscles in pain. Try to be on your feet as much as you can, staying in bed or sitting in a chair will cause muscles to weaken very quickly even at your age. Any PT at all will help a lot - stretching is a must even if it hurts. Have your Dr give you a list of exersizes you can do that wont hurt or do more harm. Swimming or walking in a pool is great to, stay as active as you can but know when to stop if it makes you worse not just causing pain.
It takes time to get better but first you need to know if you need a surgical solution to free a trapped nerve or nerves. Referred pain; pain in one part of body that will cause pain in another part of the body - this is common with a spinal injury or problem. Remember, the nerves are all connected and travel throughout the entire body. Just today I started having severe pain in my foot and big toe; the nerve that can cause that is the L4 & L5 nerve root - it can even be caused by a nerve from my neck. Im in my 50's now and I have learned a lot about back pain and back problems; its important that you are honest with the Dr and to keep pushing the Dr. or others to find the cause of the problem. You know your own body better than anyone so if you know something is wrong then it probably is in distress and in need of help. Staying in bed is good at first but after a week or so its time to keep your muscles working and in shape. Use moist heat not ice after 48 hours of any injury; lots of moist heat. Stay as active as you can but dont over do it. Last, if your Dr. isnt doing a great job its time to get another opinion - always get a second opinion just to be on the safe side.
If using Opiates for pain, use them as directed and if they work then tell your Dr. Do not be afraid to talk to your Dr about how you feel about your treatment. Keep a journal for every day, how you feel, pain, changes, what makes you feel better and worse. Like I said, it sounds like you have nerve issues that cant be ignored. Im not a Dr but I do have nearly 30 years of experience with my own back and if left untreated the problem can get much worse. Get all the tests you can; MRI - Myloegram - CT Scan and Nerve Conduction Study if you are not getting better.
Has the Dr tried a dose of oral steroids ? They can help a lot to reduce swelling.
I live in the U.S. so my language and use may seem different but im sure you can tell.
Good luck and get to work feeling better.
John11891
minnie4 john11891
Posted
so I am left dragging one foot out of the door to pain management. In between waiting I have nerve conduction done. I was told it would be uncomfortable and after a little sore. Mi,felt nothing. Absolutely nothing. I was so relieved when she turned a dial and got my big toe to move. Needles,non pain whatsoever. She asked me if I'd had a stroke but wouldn't give me any information.
pain management is this week and I am scared I will be sent out again with nothing.
having waited so long I took a copy of my MRI for a second opinion. Yes I have the three herniated discs but I also have spondylitis probably age related and worn discs in my neck. He told me that if I were his patient I would be having pain injections immediately before matters progressed. I didn't ask what that meant but assumed mire pain. What I have now is severe muscle twitching all over my body when I relax. It's like I'm having a fit. Three fingers on my right hand are numb and my toes and outside of my left foot are numb. My neck now cracks if I try to look up and I have a lump in my back which my partner can feel. He thinks it's the muscles surrounding my spine. I went to an osteopath as it frightened me and she said that I had been left for so long without treatment my body was treating itself. She did one procedure on the top of my leg somewhere and I thought she had broken it both me and my partner jumped at the noise but after I was able to bend.mmshe did deep muscle massage and ultra sound and I began to feel easier. She also gave me crutches as the only way I could keep my balance was to hold onto something.m after three treatments the twitching got worse and even during a treatment the twitching became more violent and she stopped treatment and spoke to my GP. She suspects ms my GP says its nerve. All I know is it's so bad I cannot rest or relax. Mi cannot feed myself without dropping food everywhere cannot walk unaided I'm in constant pain and yes now I am past the point if depression as I have no quality of life. What do you think my body is trying to do and is there any chance of a normal life and if one more person says build your inner core I will scream.
john11891 minnie4
Posted
Im 57 and I hurt my back at age 28 while pulling a cardiac arrest patient out of a car - I worked at a large teaching hospital in Pittsburgh Pa. I heard a loud POP sound when i pulled the guy then shortly after or a few hours I had pain down my legs.
Now in your case you said you also heard a loud noise - or a SNAP you called it. Did you hear it and feel it ? I ask because any noise while lifting or bending can be a sign that something bad happened.
Three herniated discs, facet and arthritis or " spondylitis " is the medical term they give it. The facet allows for motion in the low back and in the neck but the neck facets tend to allow for less motion so the body cant get hurt during a sudden movement. The Dr said you went too long without treatment - if the facet is an issue and its left alone after an injury the body will try to heal that area and muscle spasm is part of that process of healing along with lots of swelling, both of these can and will cause more pain. Yes at our age problems can be part of the natural aging process but you have too many other things going on to pin the problem on age - 50's isnt that old anymore. Doctors like to blame problems like yours on something they can easily explain, like age and then tell you to live with it. Its not that simple and you dont need to live with pain that takes away your quality of life and your dignity. I know how you feel.
3 herniated discs sounds bad and it normally is but remember; a herniated disc is not always the cause of the problem. If any of the discs are interacting with the nerve then yes it will hurt and cause a lot of other problems like you have described in your post.
I have had over 35 MRI tests and they do the MRI because its easy to do and its a low risk test for you, no needles or pain and almost no way to make it worse. Problem is the MRI is not the best test to have done and its mostly done to rule something out. In your case it found something or things causing pain and numbness. The MRI can miss things to and that depends on how good of a MRI machine was used, was it an open MRI - they tend to be less dependable.Did they use any dye for your test ? Dye will provide a better picture and if you have a lot of arthritis the dye will enable the doctor to seperate whats old and whaats new, in some cases. Sometimes having a normal X*RAY can show a lot, I hope they took one.
When the Dr asked you; is it nerve pain or is it muscle pain - that is how that Dr will determine just how bad your case really is. If you say muscle pain then he would most likely tell you to get lots of PT, lots of stretching and other forms of therapy to quiet the muscle pain and spasm. Had you said - NERVE PAIN - then the Dr would probably look a lot harder for the cause of that nerve pain. The problem is, how would the average person know what the hell that Dr is talking about ? Asking you that question was just plain stupid in my opinion, a person in pain knows one thing, it hurts and you dont know why. I think asking that question was his way of taking you serious or are you just a person with lots of muscle spasm that needs PT. Nerve pain is more direct, like taking a pencil and tracing the line of pain and when you do the pencil will follow the nerve. It burns and the pain can come and go depending on how you are standing, sitting, bending, lifting, walking and sleeping or not sleeping. If I sleep in my bed I will have a bladder issue but if I sleep in a chair sitting up the bladder problem is all but gone. Sitting up will free the nerve impingement while sleeping will entrap the nerve causing the bladder problem - you need to understand how the mechanics of your spine work in order to understand why you have the problems you have. I got my Neurosurgeon to spend nearly 45 minutes with me and go over my MRI, CT-Scan and Nerve Study and he was able to explain to me why I was having all the problems I currently have and thos ehtat will only get worse. He said my condition is Acute, Progressive and Chronic. Meaning; its bad, its not going away and its going to get worse. So far he's been 100% correct. My surgeon said my pain is similar to cancer pain without the cancer.
Please get tested for MS and any other neuro disease that might be causing some of the problems you have described. I have similar issues and my Dr did a complete work up, Blood, Brain scan, the works and it all came back fine. He said its all related to my back problems. And, they are; arthritis, scar tissue, 16 inches of titainium screws, spinal stenosis, foot drop, bladder problems, numb fingers, hands and feet and a ton of PAIN. I thank God everyday for the wonderful wife I have that could have left a long time ago and I think most would have. My wife has been by my side and seen it all happen and she cant believe how badly patients like me and you and others get treated by doctors that think we are all just a bunch of babies or drug seekers.
Yes,a semi normal life is very possible provided you get to work on those CORE MUSCLES - Just kidding. Find out what is causing your symptoms and then find out what will help them to get better. In my case I tried everything from a Chiropractor - no manipulations - Accupuncture - Spinal chord stimulator and even bio feedback. Staying in good shape helps the body deal with the pain and you need to keep your muscles strong in order to fight off the muscle atrophy in your legs, arms and even your fingers. Nerve damage can cause a lot of problems and thats why you cant - do nothing - find the cause if you need to go to 5 or even 10 doctors, sooner or later you will find one that cares enough to help you get better. Waiting will only make you worse if its a nerve issue.
Your not crazy just tired and DO NOT get depressed it only makes it harder to feel better. Take on a - this is not going to beat me attitude, I'm going to beat it. Use the internet to find answers just remember its the internet. Dr's are not perfect only human and thats why it might take more than a few of them to finally get you taken care of.
Oh yea, 1 test does not tell the whole story so if you need more get more and push the Dr to get it done.
Im sorry for the long post but you sound like someone that needs to hear from a person like me. Ive been there and done that and there is a way to get you feeling better you just need to do a lot of the work on your own. Please dont hesitate to ask me for more information. I'm giving thought to writing a book for people like us and after nearly 30 years of dealing with these problems I believe I know as much as some of the Dr's that treated me or at least from the patients point of view.
Lastly, if you act like you feel like crap you will, if you act like you feel better you will, if you act like you feel great you just might. The brain is an amazing thing so use it to your advantage.
God Bless you minnie,
John11891
minnie4 john11891
Posted
Yes both me and my partner heard the SNAP and I felt it instantly and couldn't get up off the floor. Over a period of about three weeks crying down the phone for my GP to come and see me but all he did was give me stronger and stronger pain relief without seeing me. When he finally did just a mere touch of my back and I was sick. I had at that stage already got muscle atrophy even though the last thing I had been doing was sitting or laying around.
So I've tried again to sleep in bed but once again I've ended up in a chair. I think most of the depression comes from lack of night sleep but I don't want to tell the dr that as I have only just got him to agree to me taking less diazapen so I'm awake during the day. I want some normality.
ive now been told my first appointment at pain management in the uk is with a nurse asking you questions for 20 minutes and then sending you away for another month or so for them to think about it. So far because of the progression my GP, osteopath and an a and e dr have said I should not be working and I need treatment urgently. My GP rang pain management to see if I could be seen sooner but they said everyone on the list was urgent.
being frightened, in pain, tired and at home with the risk of losing my partner who does not live with me and really cannot take anymore, and the risk of losing my job there is little left to not be depressed over.
If if the approach this week from pain management is to ignore everything that previous dr's have said then my thought is to go back to work. At least there I have someone to interact with and if something does go badly wrong someone to help rather than being st home on my own waiting.
i have downloaded an app which has good reviews for relaxation. The first sentence talks about finding a comfortable position. The second is to clear your mind. I think that's asking too much.
annie77 minnie4
Posted
I had my first day back at work since my lost recent flare up on Christmas Day - 1st morning back and I had my lifestyle management course to take (for people with long term health conditions ironically including chronic back pain lol). I think it's safe to say I was the one suffering from most pain and I'm the therapist 😁
I was told by one of my health colleagues that I couldn't possibly have a disc problem as I didn't have shooting sciatic nerve pain. I simply had poor core muscles and muscle spasms. I didn't bother responding as I'm sick of talking about my pain when others think they know
Best. The truth is that before I broke my back, and since, I have practiced yoga and Pilates and my core is pretty good - even after months in cast and three babies & c-sections. I don't have a disc at t12/l1 unless it grew back so I'm guessing there is no disc problems at fracture site. When I had sciatica type pain it never went further than mid thigh BUT I have altered nerve feeling that meant I didn't feel any labour pains (contractions 5min apart but felt nil) and I reckon sciatic nerve is affected somehow?
I've been referred to a new
Back pain service but will cry if all they do is refer me to physio and pain management. After 19 years surely an up to date scan or X-Ray is not unreasonable ?