Curious withdrawal symptoms

Hi Missy!

Thanks for writing!  Great to hear from you, and I appreciate your personal experiences you shared.  I agree, Day 1 is full of motivation and ambition eh?  Frankly I couldn't get by any attempt's first 24hrs without a copious few doses of benzofiazepine intervention.  I literally become a wreck, shaking like a leaf, tremors, really bad nausea, vertigo, cold/hot sweats, and that weird pain (which I just learned below, is called "peripheral neuropathy" which apparently is a deficiency in B1/thiamine.

34 you have under your belt now?!  My hat off to you!  Kudos!  I've only made it to 1.5 months, once.  That was my best record so far.  I found after the first 30-days, I seemed OK.  But anxiety struck, and I couldn't help running for a bottle  So I understand how your mind is prolly really getting to you around now, especially if you have any stress or anxiety that pops up in life while you're still getting by without the booze.

I asked my doc for Campral.  He said he was too uncomfortable giving it to me because I have bipolar disorder, and that Campral has been known to have a statistically significant side-effect of triggering serious depression for people like me.  He has me on mood stabilizers, the Naltrexone once a day, and he said to take as much diazepam as I need to get through the first week, then cut it back.  So far, I'm feeling OK.  i wouldn't say I'm feeling happy or overly positive, but I'm feeling...determined

You say you keep forgetting the Campral, I have a problem forgetting my Revia/naltrexone.  But I can tell ya, as 24hrs comes up for my next day's dose, I can feel its effects disappating and my cravings increasing.

I'm really glad Campral helps you!!  I wish I could try it, but I have some faith in the helpfullness of Naltrexone for me, so I'll try and work with that.  I have zero willpower around alcohol, so I definitely need it

I'm glad to know you're plugging along at over a month!!! Thanks for the inspirational info and motivation!

Regards, Steve

Oh..I did not know that you were diagnosed with bipolar.  Weird, I have serious (major depression) and my Dr. prescribed it to me.

However, my Dr does have a concern for me to take it because of suicidal thought increase. However, that risk...outweighs the benefit for me...I have had one suicide "talk" episode since taking it...but not since.

It really works steverz....I would be willing to try it if I were you and then if you became depressed he could stop it....because there are supposedly no withdrawal symptoms from stopping it abruptly..

Anyway

yea, I'm not a good pill taker....but never forgot to drink my booze!

Your so lucky your Dr. is prescribing benzos....Doctors around here are so scared of doing that because for people that drink...they are afraid of the liability of prescribing a drug that can cause respiratory failure when mixed with alcohol.

I've always been in hospital in the last 2 years for my withdrawal...so they give you the benzo's IV...lol (not funny).

Feeling determined as you are right now is powerful.  I'm happy for you....keep the PLUG IN THE JUG

Hi ADE! 

Nice to hear from yoU!  Yep, I used TSM for a year.  I was, and still do, take it every morning religiously with my morning coffee.  I came down from drinking 1.14 liters of brandy a day, to about 400ml a day using TSM.  Just stopped entirely yesterday.  

Doctor still thinks the 400ml or so a day, to cold-turkey was a little risky cuz I have bipolar disorder, and last year experienced DT., so he just gave me a lot of diazepam and I lode-dosed today, and again tomorrow, then just 20mg twice a day for two weeks.

How long have you been dry now?  Or are you still weening-off?  Or quit?  Hope things are great with you!  Thanks for your kind msg!

Warm regards,steve

Ah, there's a bit of a difference there, as TSM uses Naltrexone an hour before drinking. Unless you drink in the morning, then you'd hold off it til an hour before your first drink, per TSM. 

I was drinking over 80 beers per week when I started TSM (started it in January), so only 6 in the past month is a big difference for me. Only drank on 4 of those days, 26 were dry. The most I drank in one night was 2 1/2 beers. 

Yeah, almost half a liter of brandy a day isn't nothing (as you found out). Still, that's a third of what you were drinking before, so job well done there too! 

I recall when I dropped down to 3 pints a day, I was surprised that I still felt hungover in the morning. Well, 3 pints is 4 regular beers and I guess I should expect to feel it the next day if I drink most of a six-pack. Looking back, the last time I had that much was in the middle of May. TSM appears to be working exactly as it should.

Alch just doesn't call to me anymore, not like it did. If I really feel like one in the future, I'll take the pill an hour before and have one. Too soon to call a "cure", I think, but huge difference none the less. 

Geeze TSM worked great for you eh?!  Awesome!

Since I drank everyday (I would have a shot of brandy before my first coffee even), I always took my naltrexone ASAP after waking up.

I like how you said "alcohol doesn't really call to you anymore".  That's *sorta* my experience as well.  In the sense that if I had a glass of brandy in front of me that would normally take me 15ish minutes to drink, that glass slowly took longer and longer to finish.  I'd sorta forget that I had a glass of brandy in front of me.  That's what I love about Naltrexone, your drinking drops off without even trying.  The rest is willpower I guess.

I'm happy you've done so awesomely!  I need to hear these kinds of good outcome stories  So thank you!!

-steve

Ah, I understand now! Thought maybe your doc had you taking it in the morning every day whether you drank or not.

>>I like how you said "alcohol doesn't really call to you anymore".

Yeah, that's exactly the way it's supposed to work. There's a "memory" that gets set in the unconscious part of your brain, it's called the Striatum. For some, drinking really burns that memory in there and every time they drink, it releases endorphins that make that memory stronger and stronger. Naltrexone blocks the endorphins so the memory begins to fade. Eventually, it get to be like a tune that you can remember a few notes from, but you simply can't remember the whole tune anymore. 

One of the benefits of taking it only on drinking days is that on non-drinking days, your endorphin receptors are more sensitive and you can use that time to exercise or go for some other endorphin-releasing activity (watching a good comedy, even). That way your brain "learns"  a healthy memory/habit instead of the unhealthy one. In The Cure for Alcoholism, that's called "Selective Extinction". 

Anyway, it does my heart good to hear you doing so well, Steverz! Keep it up!

Thank you so much Paul!! I have no idea what peripheral neuropathy is exactly aside from the thiamine deficiency.  Gonna have to read a bit about it.  It is really unpleasant.  Even air blowing over my arms or legs is driving me nuts.  

I loaded up on about 5,000mcg of B1 yesterday and today.  As well as a high potency B-complex mix vitamin.  Doctor called me in to tell me he was concerned that my blood test showed ZERO B vitamins.  He didn't let me leave without giving me an intra-muscular shot of B1 and B12 in the butt.  That was a few weeks ago.

Thank you for giving me the name of this strange symptom.  For anyone who's never experienced it before - it's the strangest feeling.

Yeah, I'd heard of it as tingling in the hands and feet.  It might interest you to research Benfotiamine too. How much B1 are you getting between the B1 tab and the B-complex? 5,000 mcg would be 5 mg. 

Am altogether taking 6,000mcg of B1 a day.  Is that enough do you think?

Check with your doc to make sure, he may want you to dial it up a bit or give you another jab. He has to make sure it doesn't step on other stuff you're taking, so your doc or maybe even your pharmacist if the doc is hard to get hold of. 

Hi tess!  The uncoordination actually becomes worse after the first couple weeks, after I've stopped taking the diazepam.  I agree no question diazepam gives one some coordination probs sometimes, this is a different kinda coordination feeling... it almost feels like the muscles over-reach for things... or you unwillingly use too much force to pick up a cigarette and break it by mistake....  wish I could explain it better...

For the first 2-3 days I'm lode dosing - 30-40mg 2 times a day.  Then drop down to 20mg 2 times a day, then 10mg 2 times a day, then just as needed.  I find diazepam to be one of the less potent of the benzos actually, and actually begged my doctor for a slightly larger prescription.

I could never go through withdrawals - at least not for the first two weeks, without moderate dose diazepam.  Ever. Never.  I did it once last year, and ended up in hospital with DT, complete with hallucinations, trembling I could barely walk... it was awful.  So never repeating that again!  

Anyone else reading this and are just planning to quit drinking, be careful if you don't tell your doctor first. If you're a heavy drinker, beg him for a diazepam prescription for your own safety in case you live alone or there is nobody around if you come down with DT.

Tess - you get the itches too eh?  I wondered if that might have just been me or me just being a hypocondriac or something ;-)  I'm guessing that must be a common one.  Clumsiness is my middle name for the first few weeks for me ;-)  Last month I made dinner, I had a few days under my belt, but got so frustrated trying to eat my snow peas on my plate that I just threw my whole dinner out I was so frustrated haha  I'm over 24hrs now and that clumsiness has more than set in that's for sure!

Are you dry now?  If so how long has it been for you?  Have you ever experienced thinking you see something out of the corner of your eyes while you withdraw?  I've had that a few times which is always un-nerving! 

hey..have you ever read about PAWS?

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome?

I heard about this in the hospital one time and it really put all my after symptoms in prespective....and the symptoms can last up to a year for some people.

Actually, clumsiness was a big one for me...when I tried to quit and I was working...I was CONVINCED....I couldn't function ever without alcohol...until I learned about PAWS.

Check it out!

Thanks for the reply!

I came to this site some months ago because my husband is an alcoholic and I wasn't understanding his condition. So many people on this site have helped me.

Diazepam -ah, yes. Different story. I've been addicted to it and all the other benzos for forty years and am finally coming off them.

I am not sure if the brain works in the same way for alcohol withdrawal or diazepam withdrawal, but I'm ALWAYS seeing things out of the corner of my eye.

I don't drink any alcohol - but I certainly was a very, very addicted person. I'm on a taper from the diazepam now.

My husband isn't doing very well - he has terrible liver function tests, and will probably die within a year - unless something persuades him to stop drinking, and even then it will be difficult because he's damaged so much of his body by now.

One interesting thing - I was forever falling over before i started my taper, and had poor motor control. Now I haven't fallen for months -so that has to have been the massive amounts of benzos and Zs which I was taking.

My last fall was really spectacular - it was in a pub car park, where we'd just had dinner. It was dark and unlit so that didn't help.

Suddenly, I tripped on something and I screamed and screamed because it hurt so much. I have arthritic knees and of course I landed on them.

Then I was yelling "I've broken my arm!!!!"

Help arrived in the form of a physiotherapist who happened to be passing by. She had me calmed down very quickly, told me I didn't have a broken arm, then told me to go home to bed and have a nice cup of tea.

We were staying at a bed and breakfast. When we came down for breakfast the next day my husband didn't want to go down - he thought that people would think that he'd been beating me up, I had so many bruises.

Anyway, that was the last fall. I hope. Well done on your seventieth attempt at ditching the booze. I really am rooting for everyone on this site - they helped me so much. Nice to get to know you. love T

Proud of you, Tess! Benzos sound every bit as nasty as alcohol to get rid of and it sounds like you're coming along well. 

Per my DR...anyway.

diazepam addiction eh?  I've got a really addictive personality with a long history of 'self medicating' - I went through a 10 year long serious clonazepam addiction.  When I first started it, I was taking 0.5mg a day.  By the time the end of the 10 years came around, I was sometimes taking 15 or more mg a day.  People thought I was drunk (I didn't drink back then) because I slurred and stumbled around so badly.  i wouldn't remember moment to moment - zero short term memory.

Got to the point my doctor decided to try something unconventional and prescribed medical marijuana.  I stopped taking clonazepam overnight, and smoked a lot of medical weed for a few days.  I suffered only a loss of all apetite, some anxiety, and I felt "flat" - I didn't have any interest doing anything.  I got off easy thankfully on that one.  Wish I had the same luck with the booze!

I'm sorry to hear about your husband! The only reason I first tried to stop drinking was when I ended up at the ER with pancreatitis from drinking.  The ER doc said point blank "you're going to die if you go any further down this road".  That shocked me sober for a while.  Has your husband tried Revia/Naltrexone?  Do you think he could make it through a day without drinking if he had some benzos to keep him calm?  I hope he can manage a way to stop.

Warmest regards,nice to make your acquainence.  -steve

So that does make sense, then.

Ade - don't be proud of me this week - I had a major relapse. Long story. Hoping to be back on track next week.          Both you and Misssy have been so supportive.   Thanks, guys. x

It's a blip. Keep looking at the bigger picture, yer a gud lass!

Give me some advice, please, anyone.......

The problem I'm having at the moment which is stressing me out so much is that one of Jim's friends, having been kicked out by his wife, because he becomes violent to her and the kids when he's drunk, has moved in next door to us.

Our flat is completely open-plan, apart from the bathroom, of course. We have a back door, which none of the other flats has. Unless it's very cold we leave it open unless we go out. It's accessible by a public alleyway.

And this bloke has been coming round twice a day, unannounced and uninvited, for several weeks now.

Since the UK has recently experienced a heat wave we've had the back door open all the time, until we go to bed.

So this bloke often wanders in while I'm lying on the bed, with only a skimpy top on - or nothing at all - because of the heat wave. He isn't doing this in order to see me naked - I'm quite sure of that - but it's very disconcerting when a random man walks into your flat and you have nothing on.

Also, he always brings a huge bag of cans of beer and Jim can't resist them. I don't blame him. And then there's the banal conversations - all about his health problems - and how he misses his wife - and once he came round just to tell us he'd lost his bus pass. Another time was when he cut his finger (not badly) and came to show us the plaster (!)

Jim and I have been having rows about all this. Jim is sick of the bloke, too, but I'm sometimes so stressed out I tell him I'm moving out, and equally stupid things. Jim has told his pal to stop doing this. I have also told him. Once I was in a bad mood and when he turned up I yelled at him to **** off. I told him he was violating my personal space. He went bonkers - tried to kick our FRONT door in - we had to call the police.

It doesn't matter how many times either of us tell him to stop coming round twice a day, sometimes for hours, he just carries on doing it.

Thank you for reading this - anybody's advice would be much appreciated.          Tess.

Than the only thing I can say is BOTH you and JIM must have a serious sit down with this guy....if it gets heated to the point where it did before where your angry enough to swear at him....tell him the next time he walks in the police will be called.

Thank you Missy!  I've not heard about it, off to research and read about it now!  Much appreciated.  We all have such different kinds and levels of symptoms, it's frustrating eh?  They could write an encyclopedia of alcohol and benzo withdrawal symptoms!

Be well!

steve

Thanks for asking!

I'm trying to stay positive.  Still keep reaching for that brandy glass that isn't there.  Back to keep a hot cup of green tea there instead.

Still on some high dose diazepam so the withdrawals have been ok, aside from that skin pain/peripheral neuropathy.  It doesn't seem to be getting worse tho.  I can tell the benzo is keeping my shakes at bay, but still totally uncoordinated.  Having trouble focusing on anything for longer than a few minutes  I think I just re-watched the latest episode of Last Ship four times and still not sure what happened in it

Voracious apetite today.  Ate more today than I have the previous 5 days or so!  So that can only be good.

Reallly meant a lot to get your msg!  Thank you Misssy!

-steve

Have you tried Chamomile tea?  It is a sleep inducer...probably would enhance your diazapam for an even better nights sleep.

So glad your still on track..keep going.

Hi last night was my first night in almost 6 years ( aside from flus etc) not drinking. It started with a few drinks and has progressed to a little over half of a 26 oz .... Sometimes can be a bit more. Everyday I promise to quit and something kicked sat night that im just so sick of this controlling my life .... The constant when can I get home, what is my inventory there, how can I hide it from loved ones.

Last nights sleep was a lot of waking up , weird dreams , one dream that I was being shaken. hot etc.

Is what I am drinking considered a heavy drinker and should I be stopping cold turkey? I don't feel any different today at work , just tired really. I do not want to take medication. Any help is appreciated

Hi Karen!  Nice to make your acquaintance!

If you're drinking upwards of 26oz regularly, you must not stop cold turkey!!! :-O

My doctor was concerned with my stopping cold-turkey even after I widdled down my drinking daily to abour 450ml.

Please, please make sure you have access to diazepam (or pretty much any benzo) if you are going to just take the plunge and stop cold turkey.  I know, believe me, how embarrassing it can be to tell your doctor you need help, but I strongly encourage you to tell your doctor that you want to quit "now" and that you know diazepam makes that approach far safer and more comfortable.

I hate pills.  I hate taking them.  But I cannot stop drinking after a prolonged period without some diazepam, or my anxiety and shakes and hot/cold sweats, and nightmares - are just too unbearable.  

My doctor told me that if you drink more than 3oz of liquor a day, you are a problem drinker.  I hate it, but I have to agree with him.  

I too am so tired and sick of it controlling my life.  Like - planning to get everything done before noon so I can start drinking.  And then needing to go out but I'd be too drunk to drive, so cabbies and Uber knew me by heart.

In my experience, if you can make it 5 days (with medical intervention like diazepam), things start feeling a little easier.  Not easy.  But easier.

I'm an expert quitter lol - so if you'd ever like to chat or bounce things off me, I'm here for ya!

regards, steve

(ps. I'm on day 7 being dry!  It's still a little painful, but we just can't let liquor run our lives.  I can't stand the thought that alcohol determines who I am.  My biological dad suicided by alcohol overdose.  I will not be him.  We can all beat this.  It's just such an albatross.    Be well Mary.  I'm happy to be in touch with you!

I'm sorry - I meant KAREN!  I apologise, I'm still on high dose diazepam, so I have little brain-slips here and there

Thanks Steve , day 7 is better than no day at all. It's like finding nickels. Doesn't seem like much but before you know it it adds up.

I've done the same on a wknd if I'm alone I will start in the afternoon , by evening dinner plans are cancelled. And also bc I would rather stay home.

I wonder if they will prescribe at a walk in. I do have 5 lorazepam tablets from flying ( low dose) so maybe that can help if needed.

Thanks for the support. I'll be on here a lot now that I'm actually being proactive rather then the " tmw will be different as I have been saying.

Well I will try tonight. I don't have the shakes but so feel a little headachey.

Karen, there's also this:

https://patient.info/health/sinclair-method-for-alcohol-use-disorder

The reduction is gradual as the compulsion to drink is slowly erased, so detox isn't always needed. Just another choice to pick from. I used it myself and went from over 80 drinks per week in January to less than 6 in July. Campral is another one to check out, depending on which way you want to go. There are others yet, just depends on what's the best fit for you. 

Oh Karen...do you ever hit a soft spot with me.... when you say by evening 'dinner plans are cancelled' (cuz you've drank).  I have experienced this before, and in fact you're the only person I've heard mention this awful problem we experience - cancelled plans because, we drank too much.

I feel deep guilt, I am 40 years old, and have a 12 year old brother.  I have canceled going to see him on his birthdays before (cuz, drinking), have canceled so many chances I had to spend time with my little brother who i really love.  But I just could never let him see me drunk.  Unfortunately, being as young as he is, I can't explain my negligence in being a good big brother for him yet.

I still think it's in us all to overcome this crutch, Karen!!  I try my damndest to remain positive.  The anti-depressents don't hurt ;-)  Be well!  So ncie to 'meet' you!

Hello Karen - welcome - although I am new on here.  I relate to all this, many cancelled arrangements.  Weekend and alone means afternoon drinking starts.  Sunday if me and the hubs had decided to go out into the country and have Sunday lunch out - I would say that my tummy was not so good due to heartburn (fib).  We would have arranged it on the Saturday but on the Sunday I could not face it.  I'm sure he knows as I have told him I have a real problem with alcohol which he does not want to admit that I have.  He has been a heavy drinker for years on his three nights out with his mates and each night we have always drank together.  He does not get drunk.  Now he can happily go nights in the week with one can of beer.  I find it really hard.  He just does not understand the "pull" it has after one drink - the desire to keep feeling relaxed. 

Coming onto this site is really helping and hopefully we can all pull together. 

Thanks to all for your honesty.

G.

Hi gwen, (hope you don't mind me poking my nose into your thread Karen!

Boy do you ever sum it up for me too.  Every point.  Instead of "heartburn" I often use the "I'm just feeling too flat or depressed, just wanna stay in today" excuse.  Different means to the same end.  We drank too much to go anywhere.

The only redemption I have in my alcoholism is that I've never been an angry drinker.  Nor am I ever 'drunk'.  They call my kind of alcoholism "maintenance alcoholism" - I stop and switch to tea or coffee when I start feeling buzzed.  However, I always had alcohol in my blood.  Always.  24/7.  Thus the "maintenance" of the condition.  I was physically addicted to it, and my brain made the connection to feeling anxious - to curing it with alcohol.

Got off point there again  Which hilights another issue a lot of us deal with, poor memories, difficulty holding a thought, difficulty committing to things...

Gwen, my partner also drinks.  I see it turn into alcoholism for him, but he'll never admit he has a drinking problem.  As I try to recover, I see it more clearly now - how much he drinks, how much everybody drinks.

Glad to see your name and postings gwen, puts a smile on my face

Have a great day all!  Let's try to put off that first drink today!

with much respect, steve

Hi steverz, no I don't mind at all.  I love reading all of these.  Interesting about the Diaz - I have anxiety and have for seems like EVER - I have a full pack of them given me by the doc about 6 years ago as a fall back strategy for panic attacks.  Coz I know I have them it staves off an attack, so I don't know the effect of them. 

I wish there was a non addictive pill that you could take that gives you the same relaxed feeling as a glass of wine - that would be brill.

What is scary is your tolerance - it just gets greater and I wish it would not.  But something will have to give.  It is approaching 5pm here in UK and I have no inclination for a drink yet - I am an evening person and how ironic - half an hour ago I started sneezing and now my throat is starting to get sore - that means a blooming cold is on its way.  We go away tomorrow to our cottage in the Lakes and I really don't want to spoil the holiday for the hubs by having a flippin cold.  He needs the break as he works really hard.  My predicament is a bottle of whisky in the kitchen which he keeps in because he likes a single with lemon before bed.  And it always works for me in stopping a cold.  Hot water and honey and lemon and usually three does it!!!  Now I really don't want to as I know this will "start me off" for the night.  Do I kill the cold?  I am sure there is a gremlin hiding behind my sofa just waiting for an opportunity to pounce on me say go on girl - pour some alcohol!!!!!

I'll let you know who won.....................Achew (that's a sneeze lol\)

G.

Hi gwen

i must be a bit dense, or a lot! Why do you make excuses not to go for Sunday lunch with your husband? A few drinks (well none at the moment), nice food and no cooking or washing up sounds my idea of heaven.

ive lost count of the number of times my husband had to cancel arrangements due to my drinking. Worse still when friends would come for dinner and I'd spend most of my time in the kitchen or dining room 'seeing to things' I'd have a bottle of wine in the kitchen cupboard, port and spirits in the dining room which I'd swig at under the pretence of setting the table.

usually the food was good and I'd only have a small glass of wine at the table. Little did I know at the time that everyone knew what I was doing.

OMG you guys are so honest - vicks - yes Sunday lunch should be fun and it used to be - just loved it summer or winter - good long walk then big roast cooked by not me, and a couple of drinks.  But now I am so hungover from Saturday - I can't do it - hate hate myself - just feel dizzy and heavy headed on Sundays.  Oh you have got me there - everyone loves coming to ours for a meal - but I also would spend tie in the kitchen 'seeing to things'  - I used to hear guests say "where is Gwen" and I would pop my head in and say "won't be a minute" just doing desert - liar liar pants on fire lol.

I have bookmarked all these posts as the honesty overwhelms me - my hubs makes me feel bad for drinking and don't blame him - but this site does give me hope - it also makes me laugh that I am not alone with the fibs I tell.   Thank u all.  G.

Oh Gwen!  I just had a brainstorm  In your last post you lamented there not being a medication that doesn't cause addiction or dependence.  

There is such a drug.  Check out info online on BUSPAR  (busparine).

It helped me for a while after detox one time.  It doesn't give you the "high" like a benzo, but somehow you feel completely "chill".  It is non-addictive (at least not physically).  But doctors are reluctant to prescribe it as a long-term alternative to a benzo because it's efficacy diminishes quickly (you become tolerant quickly).

I know this is a completely random thought to post, but when I re-read your posting while I was catching up on the forum here, it made me think BUSPAR! Tell Gwen about Buspar!

Hi steve

I'd never heard of this drug. I spent an hour reading about it. It sounds like a wonder drug!. I did read one article which said it may not be suitable for people with drug/alcohol issues

Yep, I guess most of us get used to "side effects" to the stuff we use to try and cope eh?  (or, as in an episode of Frasier:  "sllllllide effects"  

Compared to benzos, though, Buspar is nothin'.  Wake up without the benzo hangover.  Now that I'm detox'd I might ask my doc to switch me back to that and drop the diazepam.  I'm bipolar II, so I tend to slip into depressive episodes, but despite the warnings, Buspar never made me feel depressed.  Prolly gonna be different for anyone.  

Anyway good luck!  Can't hurt to know as much as we can when we see our doctors eh?  All the best! -steve