1. Community
  2. Cancer
  3. Prostate Cancer

Dad - I'm Discouraged - Options...?

Posted , 4 users are following.

LaurieEyeBee
LaurieEyeBee

I'm not sure what I'm asking here...but I've been following this forum and I've found it's educational and supportive, and just wanted to tell our tale and maybe get whatever feedback/support is out there. wink My dad, who is 92 and just this past spring retired from work (yes, you read that right) has just been diagnosed by digital exam. He's a tough, stoic American Scotsman - and sometimes it's tough to be his medical advocate.  He had an operation, probably a good 25 years ago, to shave (?) the prostate as he let his symptoms go until he couldn't urinate at all and had to self-catheterize. He did fine in surgery and said the surgeon told him this helps prevent cancer as well.  Dad is in pretty good shape (for the shape he's in!) He is quite deaf (stubbornly hates to wear his hearing aids), has arthritis especially in the knees but goes outside and does his yard work holding onto a ski pole, and had a heart attack in his 80's requiring 3 stents which he is fond of telling people only laid him up for a weekend (he's right). He does all the cooking and laundry as my mom is 89 and an invalid. (He won't eat my cooking, lol.)

He's very good about keeping yearly physicals with his GP and last year he told us his PSA was high. I sneaked a look at it and while I know very little, the higher numbers did not seem tremendously out of range to me. He also had no symptoms he was complaining about except much more frequent urination at night time.  This year when he had his exam my mother called me and said "Well, I guess Dad has cancer." I was stunned and naturally horrified. I went over to get the whole story. Apparently the doc had said the PSA had gone up higher (I didn't see this one) and his prostate felt rough (which I know IS a symptom of cancer, correct?) I asked him if the doc told him the prostate gland was rough last year and he said "I think so." *sigh*

He said the doc had talked about "pills" which I know is oral chemo. I would never want him to go through anything like this at his age!! He's strong and still fairly healthy for his age, but this would just be too tough.  I asked if the doc was going to verify anything by biopsy or send him to a urologist (as they had when he'd had surgery) and he said not to his knowledge.  He said that when he'd asked the doc what they were going to do about it, the doc said "Absolutely nothing!!" Well, I was glad they decided against the oral chemo. But I know there ARE other things they can treat you with, though he told me his doc said prostate cancer moves SO slow in an "old man" that most will die with it, not of it. Still, I want him to have testing to see if it has spread and then we will have a better idea of his situation. He said he is content to follow his doc's advice and if "absolutely nothing" is the plan, so be it...but then he looked a little wistful and said "Though I did hear about a couple of new things they are doing now..." Since then, however, he has squashed any questions I've asked, sometimes in an ill-tempered way.

So as I said I'm not sure what I want, but this forum is much better to me than a website even with the most up-to-date info. Were CAT scans and/or other tests a follow-up to peoples' diagnosis? If not how do they know how to proceed? Most importantly how many of your docs have said (if you are "elderly") they are NOT going to go forth with ANY treatment? My dad's friend had seeding and lived many years, he did indeed die of heart disease not from anything to do with the prostate. Good luck to everyone. Thanks.

1 like, 9 replies

9 Replies

  • Dudley71081
    Dudley71081 LaurieEyeBee

    Posted

    Hello Laurie,

    I  think the big thing from your point of view would be to back off and go with the flow and try to not worry.  Either yourself,  or your Dad.  His Doctor's advice is sound and in my humble opinion as a 71yr old  PC sufferer shouldn't in the specific circumstances pertaining to your Dad ,  be second-guessed.  

    No male, especially one as tough as your Dad sounds,   is going to want to be bothered by all the hullabaloo that will attend doing anything pro -active about something which most probably will not,  apart from nocturia,  affect his lifestyle or longevity at all.

    Your care and concern is laudable.  Hopefully you can console yourself by appreciating that you have your Father now and will be able to cherish him for a good while longer,  in an atmosphere of appreciation and calm serenity,  without troubling yourself with the machinations of PC.

    All the best.

    Dudley

  • georgeGG
    georgeGG LaurieEyeBee

    Posted

    Hi Laurie, I am sorry you dad has PCa. Yes, the development of this disease in the elderly is reputed to be slow. Still, without the Gleason score the agression of the PCa is just a guess. A biopsy is the only way to get samples for Pathology to study and give the score. At 90+ the doctor may think the risks of a biopsy cannot be offset by the possible benefit. Serious prostate infections are not that uncommon and sepsis does occur on rare occasions.

    There is the MRI scan of the pelvis area that can identify tumour clusters of more than 2mm diameter. There is also a whole bone scan that is used to identify hot spots of blood activity. The experts can identify likely mestasteses to the bones. It is also used, as in my case, to confirm there are no mets.

    Hormone Therapy is used to shrink tumours and slow dow progress of the disease.

    Your dad may like to include in his diet foods reputed to be helpful in combating cancer. Various ideas may be found on the web. There have been studies which shew that cooked tomato has a helpful effect on PCa and so does cucumber when eaten twice weekly, with about two times the good effect if eaten daily.

    I see you are a member of five other groups. Please accept my best wishes for your own health as well as my best wishes for your Dad.

  • alfred5
    alfred5 LaurieEyeBee

    Posted

    Hello, my husband was treated a few weeks back for prostate cancer, he is only in his 50's, we are hoping for a cure this time, but no doubt it will return, so I fear perhaps he will never reach the age of your Father. But what I wanted to say was that Father in law was diagnosed with prostate cancer in his mid seventies, he was told not to worry as it is usually slow growing in older men and that it wouldn't kill him. So he carred on and never spoke of it again, he died age 93 and it was not from prostate cancer. (He died as a result of parkinsons)

    This just goes to show that in an older man it is not always bad news! 

    Hope everything goes well for you all.

    • georgeGG
      georgeGG alfred5

      Posted

      Very extended "remissions" do occur more and more. That is what radical treatment is about. Please do not dispair. Certainly PCa is terrible but not enough of those who are in remission stay in the formum to give others the encouragement of their experience of going back to work, getting on with life. Year after year they have their PSA test and the value is next door to nothing.
  • LaurieEyeBee
    LaurieEyeBee

    Posted

    Yes, thank you Dudley, "hullabaloo" is exactly the right word. Last winter Dad fell while out feeding the birds and tore his rotator cuff, and from what I hear this pain is really agonizing. When he couldn't drive is when he finally agreed to go to the orthopedist. He never does want to make a big deal out of anything connected to illness or injury. Me, I pound on the doctor's door and say "I don't feel well, make me better!!!" Your words are very consoling and I obviously wish you the absolute best. George, you're right, the doctor never mentioned biopsy (at least to my knowledge as Dad doesn't always allow me or my brother to go into the exam room with him) so no, we don't know the Gleason score. I don't think Dad would object to or do poorly with that procedure especially if given medication, but apparently it is not in the plans so we can only guess how aggressive it is.  THAT is what is driving me halfway to a frenzy and interfering with the serenity Dudley was mentioning! But I don't know how much this is bothering Dad...he's a smart guy and knows what's what, so I'm guessing he's worrying some about this too, even though he continues to say "I trust my doctor completely."  My brother is very good, and we've discussed this but my brother's less proactive than I. George, I don't know why the doctor isn't ordering less invasive tests to show us something.  It is frustrating to not be able to ask, but Dad is still his own patient. My best to you as well, and yes, I do have my own health concerns, so thank you for your well wishes. Alfred5, I will send your husband healing thoughts for a long, long remission. It is like the Lyme groups and forums, when people get better they tend to leave the groups. Thank you all again for your info and encouragement.  I only have one dad and I am very close to him. confused
    • Dudley71081
      Dudley71081 LaurieEyeBee

      Posted

      You are doing great Laurie.  But your worrying seems to be exponential and maybe a case of you projecting onto your Father,  your concerns about Yourself and Life In General.   Please bear in mind that given your underlying disposition it is not helping you,  beyond an initial release of tension,  to continue to articulate your fears.

      Just try to reign it in.  And accept that 90 + is a life lived.  Your Dad appreciates that and I strongly doubt,  that he is concerned about his PC beyond not wanting to appear irresponsible about it in front of you. [ I like the sound of your Dad ... I reckon he'd be a good Mate to have ].  Naturally he finds getting up to urinate more often,  tedious ... but to get to his age before that kicks in is nothing short of miraculous !  

      My Urologist reckons I've had PC for 20 yrs and I started with the nocturia 10 yrs ago.  I got PSA and DRE warnings 6 yrs ago and was fending off calls for action until Feb last year.  ( I had things I wanted to do,  unimpaired by the rigours of treatment ).

      Your Dad will keep going and quietly,   for as long as he can for the sake of your Mum and you all.  And in any event,  it's v. unlikely it will be the P. C.  which sees him off.  He trusts his Doctor completely.  Likewise,  now that I have entered a treatment programme,   so do I and I can attest that it is an attitude that removes anxiety almost entirely.

      Thankyou for your sentiments expressed in such kind words to us all.  

      And now,  respectfully,   I recommend that you stop worrying and start living.

      With best wishes,

      Dudley

       

    • Dudley71081
      Dudley71081

      Posted

      P.S.  

      I don't mean to infer that before commencing treatment I didn't trust my Doctors.  I both did and instinctively knew,  that they were ' right '.   But  on looking back reflectively at my pre-treatment  ' phoney war ' years,  I conclude that as things have now turned out for me overall,  I wouldn't change a thing.

       

      We all choose our path through this individually unique disease.  I suppose that's it really.  

      There is a book by Dr. Clare Weekes entitled ' How to Stop Worrying and Start Living ' .  I strongly recommend it to you.

    • LaurieEyeBee
      LaurieEyeBee Dudley71081

      Posted

      Thanks Dudley. I am sure Dad fears the rigors of treatment and probably any results the tests might show. I know him! I fear it too of course (have been through a tremendous history of Mom's serious health problems - she's one to happily hand over her care, and I've taken it on since her stroke in the early 1980s; it has been quite terrifying at times, but definitely an education).  But when you hear that you have something serious or a loved one does, it is a boxing match between trying to keep your worries in or letting them out. Having been indescribably ill myself for 15 years with no diagnosis and indeed mostly disdain from the medical profession, it isn't as easy for me to trust the medical field or doctors in general. I wish it were. As you said, one you begin treatment it can often alleviate your anxiety...if a person felt helpless or hopeless previously the fact that they are doing something empowers them. I would bet anything that Dad is vacillating (sp?) between the two. But we have to follow his lead and not hound him or even bring it up any more unless he does because he's apt to get angry. Not necessarily at us, of course. Yes, 92 is a life well lived (although when anyone asks "How old is your dad now?" we say "92 but he doesn't know it, lol). He's is quite bigger than life and a hero to many.

      The book you're referring to has sat in my parents' bookshelves for as long as I remember, but the author's Dale Carnegie, the famous guy who also wrote "How To Win Friends And Influence People." In fact Dad took the course long ago! However, curiously, when I first contracted the Lyme Disease and it went into my nervous system, one of the first symptoms was severe panic attacks - later I found this is typical - and by chance I stumbled across Dr. Clare Weekes' books in a store that isn't there any more. The ones I bought were "Help And Hope For Your Nerves," "Peace From Nervous Suffering," and one other. I was desperate! I never expected any self-help book to actually help...but these books were literally lifesaving, and I myself have recommended them to anyone who is going through anything from panic attacks to agoraphobia to anything of this sort. At any rate, thumbs up to all.

    • Dudley71081
      Dudley71081 LaurieEyeBee

      Posted

      Yes Laurie,  you're right.  I got the author,  Clare Weekes,  correct ... but not the title I used which is as you say attributable to Dale Carnegie.  Actually they have re-titled it  ( Dr. Weekes book )  at a subsequent re-print from when I first came across it,  under the header :  ' Self -Help for your Nerves '.

      Yes,  I further agree.  It's a tremendous book and it helped me a lot when I was under a fair bit of career type pressure back in the day.

      I'm sorry to learn both of your decade and a half of health care problems and of  you running into a stone wall of Medical incomprehension. But the past is the past and you can follow a bit of Dr Weekes advice which I remember :  

      " Let go.  ( then ) ". Let go some more ".

      Best wishes,  Over and Out.

      Dudley

       

Back to top

Report or request deletion

Thanks for your help!

We want the community to be a useful resource for our users but it is important to remember that the community are not moderated or reviewed by doctors and so you should not rely on opinions or advice given by other users in respect of any healthcare matters. Always speak to your doctor before acting and in cases of emergency seek appropriate medical assistance immediately. Use of the community is subject to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy and steps will be taken to remove posts identified as being in breach of those terms.