Daughter suffering from NEAD or NOT?

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Hi Well I am at a total loss as to what is going on with my 18 year old daughter.

About 4 years ago her school reported that she was having blackouts sometimes she fell forwards, sometimes she stiffened, fell back & then began to shake. She complains of smelling things, seeing things, tasting things and sometimes of headpain and not feeling like she's herself She has undergone tests(to check for cardio related blackouts), but in September last year had a device fitted in her chest to check for cardio problems. During the procedure she began to fit quite badly, after this initail fit her blackouts continued, but it has turned out it is non cardio related, although the recordings show extremely accelerated heart rate during these attacks.

She never had another fit until October 1st last year, she blacked out, then a few minutes later she started to twitch, then her whole body stiffened and bent backwards, this lasted about a minute followed by jerking limbs, then she went limp, she also stopped breathing and was rushed to hospital. She had a further fit 3 hours later and in ressucitation was placed straight onto oxygen.

She was kept in for 6 days and was fitting on and off throughout, one fit lasted an hour, and on the day before coming home she had 15 seizures in 4 hours without regaining consciousness, (no tests were carried out for epilepsy, and no scans performed)we were there throughout these 15 seizures and were just told to tell a nurse when one occurred and we were left on our own)and no treatment was given, and this was on the grounds that a neurologist, who had not witnessed any of her attacks and had only read her records, decided it was Non-Epileptic-Attack-Disorder(NEAD).

The day after she came home she woke up then passed out and had three fits one after the other, followed by what we believe is a staring spell, she remained like that for nearly 2 hours, we could get no response from her at all and her eyes remained open but flickered. She was admitted for telemetry and she had one of these spells, but was able to do things and managed to cut up her pyjamas, when the nurse took away the scissors she ripped them up with her fingers, she can be quite aggressive at times, and we were told they still thought NEAD, but as yet they have not witnessed a fit, and we are being told our description doesn't fit so it can't be epilepsy.

Her fits(which look like a tonic-clonic seizure) are getting worse, she has had up to ten of these on the run without coming round inbetween, which is very frightening for us as parents as we know the brain can be starved of oxygen, which brings me to recent events.

Early hours 1st Feb, three big seizures, when she came round we had an 18 year old baby on our hands, she had literally gone back in age, I'd say about 2 years old and she remained that way for 15 hours 15 minutes, we had to do everything, she drifted of to sleep and came round as herself 18 again, we were so relieved we cried, she then went to bed as normal.

She stirred at 3-12am 2nd Feb and was a baby again, she is stayed like that for 8 days and had 2 more seizures during this time(she stopped breathing with the 1st one, husband got her airways open, but we didn't take her to hospital to be told its nothing) while shes like this, she crawls around*if she can move), she can't talk, she lies on her back, legs in the air drinking water from a mineral water bottle like a baby would drink formula and talks baby talk, she's terrified of her own shadow, has further absences and jumps out of her skin if you talk to her or cross her field of vision, she doesn't recognise anybody but us, she doesn't even recognise her brother whose 20.

After the 8 days we thought she would be fine, but at 0-55am(just 4 hours after coming out of it) she drifted to sleep then suddenly woke up again as a baby, we were devastated, seeing our daughter slip away yet again, she came round as normal this morning after 4 days in this state, and we have have a whole day with her as her 18 year old self, but now her hips, & knees keep locking and her toes twist inwards and lock up, maybe its something to do with the way shes been for the last 2 weeks. She has now gone to sleep, but we are terrified about what state she will wake up in.

We are devastated with all this and feel totally useless, but nobody will listen and we are made to feel as though we are not presenting the perfect description of a seizure. To Everybody who has read our daughters story so far, many many thanks, its wonderful to know there are people out there who do care.

Right, I will do my best to cover it all here. The device she has had fitted is under the skin below the front of her left shoulder, it was only put in to ascertain if there was any heart related reason for her recurrent blackouts so all it does is record her heart rhythm and nothing else, which it did each time she had a seizure, cardiologists said highly accelerated during seizure but normal heart, thank god.

Although her blackouts started just over 4 years ago, she had never had a seizure until the day the device was fitted. Apparently in some unfortunate people anaesthetic can trigger seizures, they say she was unlucky. 1st October(the eve of her 18th)she suffered her 2nd seizure, paramedics said tonic clonic seizures, oxygen helped her, but we did not accept that it was definitely epilepsy, as we know it requires a lot more tests etc.

However we did accept NEAD as a diagnosis and vowed to help our daughter through it. The telemetry test was arranged and she went into for 4 days, she had 2 staring spells, 1 for 5 mins & 1 for an hour(but it now turns out from neurologists report that these 2 events lasted 29 mins and then 3 hours), during the second she was focused on her pyjamas and was destructive.

The neurologist said he didn't think it was epilepsy at that time.(the 15 seizures happened after a visiting neurologist(only does clinics at hospital, not on staff) had been to see her and were classed as small seizures, were she is out cold and the body and limbs shake continuously but not violently(the shortest 2 minutes, the longest an hour), at the time we did not know what was meant by \"small seizures\", only now after witnessing the seizures she has now do we understand the difference.

The seizures she has now are very frightening, they only happen after she has gone to sleep or blacks out, so she is normally on her side, her fingers start to twitch, her eyes flicker & it looks like her eyes are rolling, head jerking back, then her whole body stiffens and starts to bend backwards, her fingers twist around each other, her toes and feet twist and her legs bend backwards towards her lower back, she ends up with her whole body arched backwards, and making horrible noises. Then she starts to jerk quite violently(blood & saliva from mouth sometimes & nosebleeds), then her body just goes limp(bladder empties about 50% of the time at this point), normally all over in about 90 seconds.

It is extremely rare that we get her to come round right away and normally remains out cold until the next seizure arrives maybe about five to ten minutes later, she has had a cluster of 10 of these type over a couple of hours, after the tenth one she came round but went straight into a staring spell.

That was a while ago now(Nov), but at this moment she is back in her childhood state which was triggered by 3 seizures at the beginning of Feb, followed by 15 hour child state, 9 hours normal, 8 days child state & 2 seizures, 4 hours normal, 4 days child state, 12 hours normal and now back in child state. She has more absences than ever now. What we do find strange as she would have what we would class a relatively short(2 hours) child state and days of normality, now it has reversed and she has days of child states and hours of normality, during which she is bright and bubbly and the light of our lives.

She is a fantastic artist and now we watch her daubing any old colour in a childs colouring book, its just so sad. When Suzanne was rushed in on Wednesday gone(normal hospital, not neurology), again paramedics arrived, said tonic clonic and treated her accordingly,(the female paramedic begged us not tolet it drop because of the state our daughter was in) she improved once she was on oxygen, bloods were done and infection ruled out, discharged next day to wait and see outcome at neurology.

As we said NEAD accepted, but still feel there is something else not quite right, we were told by neurologist last time that these clusters can be dangerous IF they are Epilepsy, and she could end up NEAD & Epileptic in the future, I just hope the futures not already here(we would prefer it not to be) anyway, thanks to all for listening, we as parents just feel glad we are able to tell people our daughters story.

At this time(22-02-09) our daughter hs been her normal self for 4 full days

0 likes, 13 replies

13 Replies

  • Posted

    Oh Linda, this sounds awful. I too have a 19yr old daughter who has just been diagnosed with epilepsy but nothing like you have been through.

    I think i would demand more tests, has she had an EEG or brain scan. She is having an awful lot of seizures and the fact that she goes childlike. That is not normal.

    Have you got a good G.P? If she is in hospital again, i would refuse to take her home unless you get some answers.

    She is still your little girl and has her whole life ahead of her. It's such a worry as a parent.

    I am a nurse and i still panicked when my daughter was in and out of seizures, i thought she was dying and couldn't breathe.

    You need to get some answers. Perhaps it is a heart thing but the medics need to get to the bottom of it.

    Good luck Linda

  • Posted

    Hi

    thanks for taking time to read this, hopefully people like youself can see why we say\"yes\" in some respects NEAD does fit and we accept that but in others \"No\" it doesn't. It is confirmed blackouts are non-cardio related, which we are thankful for. I cared for a woman many years ago in her forties who had lost half her brain in a horrific moped accident, I watched and cared for her through every single grand mal she had(I was 18 then, am 44 now)those seizures are etched in my thoughts for life, its something you just don't forget. So you can imagine my thoughts watching my daughter having clusters of them. She isn't in hospital at present, and thankfully has been her normal self for the past 4 days, and we love evry minute of it. We see neurologists on 21st April, seems so far away, but we can only hope he will look at her diary and at lease offer to do a scan,(refused to do one last time as she had scan 4 yrs ago for blackouts and was normal) we can only hope. Thankyou for caring

  • Posted

    hi i'm so sorry to hear about what your daughter is experiencing, it must be so hard for you but she is incredibly lucky to have such caring and devoted parents. i've been suffering with seizures for about five years now, i was diagnosed with nead and was told by my gp that there was nothing more they could do and that it was just something that i'm going to have to live with. its easy enough for them to say but its not only the sufferer who has to live with it but everybody else around them. my parents have found it so hard to deal with. i have a two year old daughter and the idea of it happening in front of her terrifies me. i'm getting as much info about it off the net as possible about it and then going back to my gp to argue my case for more tests and treatment. have you heard of nead trust, they're a site that is trying to raise awareness and help people. on there it says one of the symptoms of nead is 'time travel' where people in their minds can go back weeks or even years, they say though that the person should revert back fairly quickly. it might be worth looking into it. it appears that there are so many various symptoms and triggers with nead, i think that actually the doctors are at a loss. the only treatment that appears to be available is cognitive therapy, has your daughter been refered for this? there are a few physiological causes for nead and psychological but its difficult to find the information on the physiological causes which are also refered to as organic, these can include heart problems and diabetes. your daughter must feel terrified. i know for myself its incredibly scary and mine havent been as extreme as your daughter's. i can always feel mine coming on, i feel disoriented, hot, begin to forget where i am, not recognise people, it feels like my mind is beginning to shut down, i cant remember how to talk, i lose all sense of balance, i no longer understand what things are around me, it feels like i'm slipping away into a terrifying dream. i cant breathe and it just feels like everything around me is disappearing. i've had hallucinations with it as well whilst feeling that my body is completely paralysed. this all happens before i have the seizure, when the seizure occurs i can feel my hands start to shake, then it all feels like a dream, i can hear voices and can feel myself shaking. my seizures that have been witnessed have been described as extremely violent, with my whole body shaking very violently, eyes rolled back and difficulty with breathing. they last usually for abut three minutes. i just thought you should know you and your family arent alone, but unfortuanately it seems we are going to have to fight in order to get our voices heard. but please keep on fighting, do not just accept what they are saying, a full assessment needs to be done of your daughter and from what i read of your story it doesnt appear that they've done that yet. i hope your daughter gets better, your story upset and touched me so much, i really hope your family can find a way through this, my thoughts are with you, lisa x
  • Posted

    dear linda i have just read your story . i have just been told i have nedas i get the same symptons as your daughter funny smell slurred speach pins and needles and a usually go in a daze. i have had many tesks like mri scans and also having to go to a specailist hospital in london , which i was then refered to chalfont. ask your doctor if your daugther can be sent their as they video you and have all the top expitment. your daugther is so lucky to have you as i have no family surpport and have also lost my job . i feel that this isnt neds . and that the doctor has got to do some more tests i wish you all the best. please can you let me know how you get on . princess pink.
  • Posted

    To be honest I had forgotten all about this site as back then I felt we were so alone in all of this. But she is confirmed NEAD. NEAD is a very complex yet poorly understood illness and many sufferers invaraiably ending up feeling that doctors feel it is all in their mind. This can have a devastating effect on the patient in the long term. We have learnt from the small amount of information available, how to deal with her condition. And 4 brushes with death later I think we can safely say we have the hang of it now. To the point(and I know this sounds awful)that we can sit over her while she is fitting and have a conversation. They like to base this illness on pyschiatric porblem is they can but it has never been proved that psychiatric treatment actually helps. She is happy go lucky and you would never know there is a problem unless you witness and event. And we have witnessed hundreds over the last htree years. I feel so guitly that I forgot about this site but at the time of posting she was very bad, so you can imagine how easy it was to forget the post. So I apologise to all those that replied whent hey did. My daughter refuses care now unless she stops breathing and we have to make decisions for her, obviously. Also in age regression, we have to step in too. Have you ever witnesses the damage a toddler can do in an adult body? I tell you it is devastating. But more devastating for the patient to see when they reurn back to normality to see the damage they have caused. At the moment she is having a good spell and is singing her head off upstairs, driving me insane in one sense, but nice to hear in another. Stay safe and get all the help you feel you need from the medical profession. Tell them your thoughts and your fears and try whatever they suggest. By doing this you can show them what does and does not work. xxxxx
  • Posted

    thankyou linda for taking the time to send a reply back.when fits started was i was attacked outside of work at that time i contnued with evey day life then one day i had a fit , to cut a long story short my supervisor at the time found me on the floor, she just looked through a window and throught i had been laying around and not doing any work . this resulted in her telling my manager that i wasnt doing my work . i was pulled up in frount of my boss which i then had to expain what was going on , at that time i didnt know it was neds i had to go through all the tests on my own with no surpport off my mum which was quite hard and also goning to a hosptial in london . i am still on tablets which my specalits is going to start to reduce again in oct. sometimes i feel its really hard to expect that i have this condition because there are no tablets to take i feel that no one beleves me . in the end i lost my job i am scarred to go out alone , but reading about you and your daughter next time i feel that no one belives me i shall think about what you and your daugther have been throught and how the both of you have learned to carry on. linda if it is ok with you i would like to keep in touch and let you know how i am getting on and also i would like to know anyup dates on how your daughter is. thankyou in beleiving in me princess pink
  • Posted

    NEAD is just so unpredictable, you have no idea when it will happen and you cannot prepare for an attack. I feel for the fact that you have no support, familywise that is. And I would not wish that on anyone. I know you do get some sort of warning that an attack is imminent in Epilepsy and you can prepare for that attack, I always knew when the woman I cared for was going to have one of her attacks, so I could prepare her. Employers these days are not willing to always take on someone who has an unpredictable illness. I would say it is because they do not really understand it. My daughters school would not have her there because of the unpredictability of her blackouts, and she was not diagnosed NEAD until some 4 years later. Blackouts were all she had back then. Our family actually cannot grasp the concept of this illness and often say 'she should be out clubbing and having fun'. But the fact of the matter is she cannot. This was to be proved in June last year when as a normal adult she insisted on going to the local shop alone, much to our dispair. But as she was 20 years old, and in a normal state, we had to step back. That 10 minute trip turned into a 3 hour nightmare. She was eventually found in a secluded country lane unconscious and spent 4 days in hospital. She had age regressed whilst walking along and just kept going. She actually wandered to a place she had been walking with her dad in the past. I am not trying to scare you, but this made her realise she cannot be left alone, it made her see things the way they are. And since then she has just got on with it and never worries about what may or may not happen. It is hard to except it and there are a lot of medical professionals out there who refuse to recognise it as a real illness. My daughter is lucky, her choice in GP understands how NEAD affects patiens who are unfortunate enough to have to deal with it. Her philosohpy is the same as mine, "when you are born you are dealt a hand of cards and you have to play the best hand you can for as long as you can and only throw away a card when you really need to". She abides by this now and always will. I am happy for you to keep in touch with me, but do not be down-hearted if I take a couple of days to get back to you. I do not get on here much due to my own health. I believe in anyone who takes this illness in it's stride as sufferers, once used to the idea, inevitably do. Do not be scared to go out. Do what we do and think to yourself, if it happens, it happens, hard as that sounds it works, for patients and carers xxxxx
  • Posted

    Another good idea is if you go out, always make sure you have something in your purse that says who you are. But more importantly these words 'I SUFFER WITH NON-EPILEPTIC ATTACK DISORDER' xxxxx
  • Posted

    thankyou so very much for saying that you will keep in touch with with me. i understand that you may not be able to reply back straight away as you have your daughter to look after and also yourself. i am so happy that i have found some one who understands what i am going through . i dont know how your daughter copes. i dont think that going to see someone once a week to talk about my fits is really helping . half of me wants to stop going and the other half doesnt know what to do. the person who i speak to . also i have aneigh said if i dont put my whole heart into it i am never going to be able to get these attacks under control. she is on holiday at the moment so i dont see her again untill the 8 th august. i feel i have been sent their because my specailist doesnt really know what it do, about it i dont see him again untill oct , and i dont know really what i am goning to say . linda i shall take yours and your daughters advice on board and keep my head held high and if i have a fit it happens there is nothing that i can do about it. all the best to your daughter speak to, you again soon
  • Posted

    I am glad I am of some support to you. Everyone with NEAD needs support, no matter where it comes from. It is very hard to put your whole heart into something that is so unpredictable. I know that with my daughter. One minute she is laughing and joking the next she can be out cold, fitting or in age regression. Looking at how she is I would say it is difficult, if not impossible to get it 'under control'. And this is where the downfall is, most people get the 'jist' of it but they do not fully understand. If no physical reason is found then people assume you can control it, and assumptions like this, in my opinion are totally wrong and unfounded. The good thing about going to see someone once a week is that it keeps you getting out of the house. It may feel pointless, and sometimes it is pointless, but by going you are proving that you yourself are taking this very seriously. If you feel your specialist has sent you there because they do not know what to do, then voice this when you go for your weekly session. I am messaging you with this as well rather than posting it, as by me being able to offer some sort of support it becomes more personal, and not for boards so to speak. Just hit the message button by my name if you need to xxxxx
  • Posted

    There is another angle you might look at, I was talking to a woman at the Back Pain show this year and she told me she had what they thought was epilepsy but non of the treatments - including brain surgery - had any effect at all.

    She hurt her neck doing something and had it treated with the Theraflex machine. The therapist said that her back was not in a good way and the neck was very squashed a couple of goes of the Theraflex machine and as well as fixing her back pain all the fits stopped as well, so it looks like it was some squashed vertebrae causing the problem… might be worth looking at this angle.

  • Posted

    Thanks for taking the time to respond Damien. In the three and a half years since posting this topic we have been down every root you can think of. Her episodes were all witnessed at the Walton Centre while she was an in-patient there. And they were able to confirm NEAD. We have been warned that she may end up with Epilepsy too at some stage, but at least that can be treated. Thankyou so much for your input but more so your interest in this.
  • Posted

    thankyou linda so much i have sent you message using the message button hope you get it if not well . i have spoken to the person today that i speak to and she wants me to go through the sheets she has given me to see if there is any other ideas that could help wiith my attacks,. she says she wants to get it to the stage were i am able to manage my attacks using these teqneques but i dont think they are helping. but i am willing to give them a try. how is your daugther. give her my best wishes and tell her from me she is so brave . have you any tips that i could use that could control these attacks speak to you soon princess pinkxx

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