Dexa scan result

sorry for typos.  swimming   avoid   

I've read your reply with interest because I have osteopenia but my doctor said it was not bad enough on the scale to warrant taking medication for it.

Then I got an autoimmune disorder that has me taking Prednisone every day for a long time possibly years. I'm worried about my taking prednisone

and how it's going to affect my bones. I am taking extra calcium and vitamin D and I take a multi-vitamin meant for women over 50 which I am. I am

also taking some magnesium but I don't really know how much I should take. Can you tell me how much I should take everyday. And what is D3 and

should I take it and how much should I take of it?

You can check your vitamin D levels in your blood tests as well as calcium levels. Blood tests now allow one to keep a check on all our vital vitamins.

Vitamin K2 is a good one for you to add as it puts the calcium onto the bones.

Magnesium is good as it helps with cramps if you have issues with that.

There are foods that help too. Some include avocados, prunes, skin of cucumber, bone broth, leafy greens, cheese and yoghurt.

I've been taking prednisone since June 2015.  Have managed to get to a low dose, but started at 15 mg and it took about ten months to get to 5 mg, where I believe there is still some effect on bones, but not as bad.  I'm currently nearing the end of a taper to 2.5 so hope it works!  Anyway, to get to your questions.  We all need Vitamin D in order to absorb calcium.  D3 is the recommended form we are told to take, and it's almost always included in the calcium supplement.  The other things we must make sure we get include the Vitamin K2, as Kathleen says it's what makes sure the calcium actually gets to the bones - Vitamin D doesn't do that, and if we lack K2 and magnesium the calcium can get deposited in the wrong places, hence the advice not to take too much calcium as it can lead to issues like cardiac problems or kidney stones, for example.  K2 helps avoid those problems.  Most things can be got from a healthy diet, except, of course, D and K2, although if you live in a place with good sunshine all year round your need for d supplements isn't quite as important as for those of us who live in temperate regions.  I think the amount of magnesium is based on how you are, so what one person needs can be quite different from qhat another person does.  One thing I did learn is if we are taking extra calcium we should also take extra magnesium or you can develop an imbalance, which can lead to things like muscle cramps.  I think if there is a chance of a slight magnesium deficiency it's a good idea to take a supplement at a time separate from calcium.  As you will know from taking prednisone calcium can interfere with our absorption of other things.  I have to take iron, for example, and can't take it at the same time as calcium although fortunately it's okay with pred.  You can even get magnesium through the skin by having a bath, or a footbath, with Epsom salts in it.  As too much magnesium can lead to diarrhea it's a good idea to be cautious as you introduce it as a supplement.  It is in a lot of foods, though so you may not need to supplement too much.  I have taken to having about one or two capsules a week with my bedtime snack, instead of calcium at that time, and also have the occasional good soak in an Epsom salts bath.  Really, it all has to be tailored to the individual and there is quite a lot of valid info on line to help you decide what to do.  Not having any qualifications I'm not going to make any recommendations about how much of anything you should take.  You may have individual conditions which change things.  I was diagnosed with a high Vitamin D level, for example, so cannot follow the standard recommendations.

I no longer take a multivitamin as it seems from recent info that they are quite useless.  Better to eat a healthy diet and supplement with targeted nutrients when needed.  So, just as an example, based on my own particular needs, I take a formulation designed for bones which contains calcium hydroxyapatite as it's supposed to be better absorbed by people on prednisone.  The other recommended form is calcium citrate.  I only take 2/3 of the recommended daily dose as I'm concerned about the amount of D in the capsules, and try to eat extra amounts of leafy greens.  I also take glucosamine for osteoarthritis, 1000 mg twice a day, an oily E with several variants of E in it, every second day I take a complete B supplement, and I take a Vitamin K2 capsule twice a day, which is the top of the dose recommendation (trying to combat the D issue I have).  And as indicated I also make sure my magnesium intake is good.  I eat prunes every day for the boron, and I think my diet in general provides all those other micronutrients like copper and zinc....

I eat a lot of fermented foods like yoghurt and fermented veg (think sauerkraut and its kin) and kefir, etc.

Good Luck!

I hope this helps.  It's taken a while for me to get to this place, and you too will find your own way to what works best for you.

My head is swirling with all the info you gave me. It looks like I'll be doing some research. Thanks for your help.

I'm the same, seamed so easy sitting talking to my Dr, but to be honest it was a bit of a shock to be told I have yet another issue to deal with on top of everything else, but I would like to take an alternative route so next week I will get an appointment with my rheumatologists and get some guidance from her and let you know what she thinks, I'm going to also get my levels checked next week to make sure I'm not bombarding my system with things I don't need.

It is a bit mind boggling to try and wade through the great advice regarding supplements etc but need to get bones stronger, does seem strange that I know loads of women who haven't had the scan and don't want it.

When my doctor told me, incorrectly it turned out, that I had osteoporosis I was shattered, not to say crushed, but I immediately started reading, asking my friends about stuff and so forth.  One of my friends told me she had improved her bones (confirmed by DXA scans) through completely natural means, and this gave me heart and the ability to say no to the meds, which, quite frankly, terrify me.  When two months later I finally got the T-score for femoral neck and it was "only" osteopenia or low bone mass, I felt like a huge weight had been lifted from me.  I literally felt lighter and lighter all that day, and have for the most part been in a much better frame of mind since then, a year ago.  I now feel quite certain that our bones are indeed something we can work to improve, but we do need to mitigate any causes of bone thinning, like taking into acoount medications like steroids, or other factors, like a naturally small frame, etc.  

Be aware that many well trained doctors have very little clue about nutrition.  They may not even have heard of Vitamin K2, for example, or if they have they confuse it with K1, which works differently, and say Vitamin K does not help the bones.  This, in fact, is not true.  Japanese studies have shown pretty conclusively that Vitamin K2 is very effective in helping with bone health and proper calcium metabolism.  K1, of course, is the vitamin which works to enable blood clotting.  So, listen to your doctor, but know that you can probably find out even more on your own!

Yea my neck of femur is actually 2.5 osteopenia or some such spelling, I do think we are becoming pharmaceutically lead, more and more meds given out daily, only they get rich and we rattle LOL your comments are greatly appreciated, thank you

Hi Anhaga, I have osteopenia and osteoporsis, got my scan results last week, all I was offered was alendronic acid, which I refused.  I would also like to try to improve my bones the natural way.  Although my blood test results all came back as normal,  I have done some research and just started taking extra vitamin K2, magnesium,D3 and zinc with copper, in the hope this will help my bones.  You menioned that you had talked to one of your friends who had been taking natural means and it had helped, could you help me out with that and tell me what she was taking please?  I need to try what I can at this stage, as I am sure you understand.

Adcal D-3 gives you calcium and vitamin D in one dose.

I eat a banana a day and tomoz when I go out will go to local store that sells all the vitamins etc and get some vitamin k and anything else to save me taking alondronic acid, also I'm starting back in the pool to build muscle and bone.

Will let you know what he says

Good for you!  Perhaps Kathkleen will come along with suggestions for using the pool most effectively as swimming itself is not an effective bone density builder as the water supports your weight, but I believe it's Kathleen who does some sort of exercises in the pool which are supposed to be helpful.

I think she was the one who put me onto Vitamin K2, and also, which I already knew, said that dairy was not the best way for us to get most of our calcium.  She also started doing a lot of exercise, including Nordic walking and parkour.  You can look up parkour.  It was something I couldn't dream of doing.  But I have taken up Nordic walking and I also wear a weighted walking vest every few days, and do tai chi, as well as carrying on with regular walking and my llongstanding physio and yoga exercises.  It's a lot of work and quite time consuming.  I do remember asking my firend what she thought had been the single most effective thing she'd done and I believe she said it was the Nordic walking.  I'll see if I can find the FB message and if there is anything else I'll get back to you.  I do recall she said something about eating oat grass or something, but I haven't done that.  At least not yet.  I think it is rich in silica which is another bone-building mineral.

I have a book from physio that gives me a group of exercises to improve bone and muscle's so will have a go, still waiting for hydrotherapy appointment, so drawn out

Oat straw, recommended by a herbalist, and apparently it does contain calcium as well as silica and a whole load of other micronutrients.  I think I may look for it next time I'm in our organic foods store. 

If you have steps into the pool use them for step ups.

Go to the shallow end of the pool and walk.

Use equipment like noodles and dumb bells to build muscles in arms and legs.

The pool is good especially if you have mobility issues because it is safe.

Hi yea its the power walking that iv been advised to do at chest depth, I do weights as well, did swimming and gym weights before I did this bloody accident, have gone back to weights again and of course all the exercises from physio never seem to stop, its hard work isn't it but its in a good cause

I feel it more in the legs in the shallow end. Maybe do some of both types!

I have some fun ones I do too. Put the arms out straight to the sides when in the deep water holding the Dumbbells and swinging the legs from one side to the other underneath. The legs go from one side to the other and hold you can feel this in the shoulders in particular. Go back and forth from one side to the other.

I think it needs to be fun or you won't keep going. 

I chat to people there too so it is social and not isolation.

My husband is bailing up a bit going and I need him so it is a bit of a problem at the moment,  so we take pool breaks from time to time but keep the membership.

I know what you mean, its 5 months of paying and keep thinking is it worth it but it is definitely

Yes, for sure, a few years now for me! So I can understand my husband needs breaks from time to time.

So is your hubby your carer to, mine is and I'm sure he finds it hard going sometimes as well.

When did you have your op 2 years ago

Yes, my hubby is my carer. He s 74 with the bones of a 30 year old.

He does have some arthritis in his knees and hip.

Not sure what op you are referring to. I had shoulder surgery three years ago. Last year I had skin cancer removed from my face.

 

Sorry, I keep getting the forums mixed up, I'm on about 3 and get confused, amazing how men's bones don't degenerate like ours, they reckon its the menopause that makes us vitamin D deficient and they say that's what causes it.

I'm not keen on meds and although my sister was on alondronic acid for five years and was absolutely fine I'm still dubious

Thank you so much Anhaga, and to everone that has commented, it all helps.