Dizzy days
Posted , 6 users are following.
I have switched fow xanax 1 mg to diazapam10 mg in the hopes of getting off benzos I have tried a lower doseI use this for sleep only,Ihave been on the diazepam since 1/26/16. First at a lower dose 5 mg but was awake so I switched to 10 and am trying to stabalize on that dose and then plan to reduce at 5%. My problem is while I sleep well my days are bad, off balance sometimes dizzy.I also get sort of a buzzy zappy feeling in my head like when you come off of psych meds.Anyone else had this? Is it the d or wd from the x?
2 likes, 49 replies
craig137 carol20979
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I think with everything we have spoken about your Dr will be fairly well informed on your condition. Did you take in this print out?? either way I hope i've helped in some small part, and more importantly this DR wont just script you off. Don't take what a DR says as gospel, they quite often make mistakes, this is part of being a human. Let me know what the (fingers grossed) your shiny new DR says lol.
Craig
carol20979 craig137
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carol20979 craig137
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Carol
MARKUpNorth carol20979
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Your report that your days are "bad, off balance sometimes dizzy."
I am not sure what you mean by bad. That is to say, are you too hyped up and too nervous, or, are your sluggish and sleepy?
If the former, your dose is not high enough. Increase by 2 mg every 3 to 4 days until the daytime symptoms are gone.
If the latter, your dose is too high. With diazepam it is very important to take into account what is called diazepam's layering effect. In short, Xanax has a short-half life, such that by the time you need to take a new xanax dose, the last one is beginning to wear off.
But with diazepam. the half-life is very long, from 30 hours up to 200 hours. It all depends upon physiological factors such as liver fuction, weight, age, metabolism and a host of other factors.
The point here though is that because each diazepam dose lasts so long, when it is time to take a new dose, and then another and then another during the early days of starting diazepam, each subsquent dose layers on top of the previous ones. This happens because the previous ones will not have worn off. After several days, the active amount of diazepam in your system is increasing and increasing until you reach a stable level, which is that point at which early doses begin to wear off.
But if you are taking too much, this layering effect builds up to too high a level and the result is that several days later, the same daily dose begins to seem like a much hiigher dose, when in fact the feeling comes from newer doses layering on top of older ones that are still active.
This is extremely common with diazepam. The usual pattern with any dose level is that during the early days it feels ok to wonderful. Then as the doses layer upon one another, the sleep becomes deep and longer and daytime sleepiness and groginess sets in, which is the signal to reduce the dose bit by bit every 3 or 4 days unitl there is nice sympomatic relief with no excessive sedation or under-sedation.
The Last and very important note is that it is a very good thing that you have switched from Xanax to diazepam. It is much easier to taper off diazepam than the vast majoirty of other benzos due to its long half life. BUT, once on diazepam and you have a nice stable dose, make sure your start right into a taper program, otherwise you will just be switching dependence on Xanax for diazepam. Even if you begin tapering soon after the start of diazepam, don't go cold turkey.
The diazepam is replacing the Xanax, so you still need to taper off nice and slow.
Hope this helps - Mark
carol20979 MARKUpNorth
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carol20979 MARKUpNorth
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craig137 carol20979
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You've had bad expierence's with benzo's. You've read terrible stories about benzo's, you've met people who have said "no matter what don't take any benzo's"
No wonder your worried about it.. It's gonna be a bumpy road no doubt. Good days, bad days, nasty hours even. This is what i was talking about with the hand and palm thing.
take it and forget it.
And again Mark is absolutely right in saying the easiest benzo to come off is Diaz. Might take a month. might take 2 years. End result is the same . Either way, keep talking, that's your greastest weapon by far.
Hang in the
Craig
carol20979 craig137
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Carol
craig137 carol20979
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Craig
carol20979 craig137
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I am usually distracted might still feel bad but act normal.I did take week off from work because I don't know how this will affect me.and I won't have rhe stress of dragging myself to work when i don't know how this will be.Will keeep you posted
Future Happy Bunny
judy96662 MARKUpNorth
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I'm Judy. I've been follow your thread with Carol and Craig for several weeks now and I think you're on to something. A lttle of my history....
I was prescribed 15 mg. of Temazepam for 25+ yrs. when my internist chose not to continue with the prescription. She sent me to a sleep clinic (wrong move), and I came prepared with Ashton's method of tapering. Doctor there said," looks good" and gave me a script for diazepam (2 mgs.) and said I'll see you in 3 months. 2 wks. into my taper I contracted Lyme Disease that mirrors the symtoms of benzo withdrawal and muddied the waters. I should have been instructed by one or both docs to cease the taper until the Lyme Disease was under control. Knowing diazepam (started with 8 mgs.) has a longer 1/2 life and so fatigued I couldn't even stand, (confusing the Lyme with the taper) I may have tapered too quickly. 16 wks. in I was down to 4 mg. d. With both hitting the CNS at the same time the infectious disease doc sent me to a neurologist. He refused to treat me not wanting to "get involved" with benzo withdrawal. My CNS was a mess. Off to a psychiatrist who was familiar with the Ashton method. He put me on 2 mg. d and 7.5 of temezapam.
2 ER visits and 3 day hospital stay, with detailed taper/side effects, etc. in hand, I had every test on my heart and brain available. All came out clean. They suggested I go to the Mayo Clinic the health gold standard in the US. Really? That was almost 5 mo. ago. I've been on the same dosage since then with s/e (BP up to 200+ at times and anxiety). that kept me from driving or leading the normal life I'd had previously. Those s/e seem to be behind me now.
There's much more to this journey, but I save both of us the pain. Let's just say doctor upon doctor and no help.
I'm now dealing with just the dizziness and severe fatigue most days. The last addiction psychiatrist took me off the 7.5 temazepam cold turkey leaving me with just the 2 mg. d. By 2:00pm the next day I was off the rails not even able to write. So I went back on the 2 + 7.5. After reading your post, I think he got it backwards. Should have tapered off the d.
Cut to the chase:
I started last night by tapering to 1 1/2 mg. d. and plan to stay on this dosage for about a wk. and then down to 1 mg.
I'll let to you know how things go, but I really think that may be the answer to relieving my dizziness and fatigue.
I'm hoping the old adage "Seek and ye shall find" applies here.
carol20979 judy96662
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judy96662 carol20979
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Thank you for sharing. I read you are in your 60's. I just turned 70 and I have given up 10+ months with some major improvements, (not without dreadful side effects) but at the rate i'm going I'm looking at at least 2-3 yrs before I could say I'm completely off the benzos. My internist has agreed to allow me to stay and hold. But living with this dizziness/fatigue is not an option. Maybe between you, Craig and Mark I can find some relief and can return to some assemblence of normal. I miss my old self and life. Please keep me in the loop as I will keep you in my thoughts. Hang in there Girlfriend!
Good luck to you with traxene.
craig137 judy96662
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I'm sure between our personal expirience and a little detective work we can get this undercontrol. The only way to get of this particular merry go round is with a slow (as long as it takes) taper, maybe lowering doses, possibly upping them, trying different ones and trying different combinations. Whilst all Benzo's have a similar impact on the CNS they all are very subtly different on their actions on the GABA neurotransmitter and the synapses between nerve endings. It's all about finding the (what's right for YOU) combination. This is truly a slow and steady wins the race scenrio. Think of it as a picture missing a few piece's we just gotta put them in the right place and solve the puzzle.
Hang in the ladies
Craig
carol20979 craig137
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Happy Bunny
carol20979
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judy96662 craig137
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Thank you very much for your response. All you say makes a great deal of common sense. One size (or benzo) does not fit all. If the Ashton method has a shortcoming, that would be it. In her defense, she did what no one else took the time and effort to do. She's allowed so many to walk through a dreadful journey when so many other doctors either refuse treatment or play Russian roulette with suffering minds and bodies. Others do try but are lacking the knowledge.
Question? In your opinion, if I can taper off of the d why should I at this age make a conversion from the 7.5 temazepam (1/2 the original dosage) and once again start to taper? I believe the dizziness and fatigue is caused by the d. I've started to reduce by 1/2 mg of the 2 mgs. of d and actually started to feel a small improvement. I think I may have stabilized at the 2 mg. I see no upside at this time to conversion + taper +withdrawal side effects when considering the length of time I've been on temazepam (25+yrs.). We all understand length of time is a big factor when trying to withdraw. My new internist has asquiesed to my request to continue to prescribe my current dosage understanding my situation caring for a partially handicapped husband. I'm the one who must remain strong both mentally and physically for us to function.
I understand tolerance may become an issue, but that could be years in the making. At this age and situation, I need good years now, and hopefully we can address that down the road if it does indeed become a problem.
Thank you to you and all who have made me feel I'm no longer alone facing this challenge with the support and advice I've desperately needed.
Judy
annie1963 MARKUpNorth
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craig137 carol20979
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2 thumbs up
Sounds like a positive day overall. Stick to the 10mg of Diaz and leave out the Tranxene if thats working for ya at the moment. (let the DR know ) Don't wait for the WD (it might not come) just remember the sucess of today. I would'nt worry about the vertigo sounds like the fluid in your inner ear swapping sides, which will of course give you that slight off balance swirly feeling and it was only transient in nature. Remember my favorite saying " journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step.
craig137 judy96662
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As you say "at your age" I don't really see the point in changing to a different benzo, and starting the taper cycle all over again. 2mg of Diaz is a very very small dose anyway. Unless you want to change due to uncomfortable symptoms ect then by all means, but as my grandad used to say if it ain't broke don't try and fix it.
and your certainly not alone.
craig137 annie1963
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That zappy feeling your getting is completely normal, it's just very uncomfortable especially switching between benzo's. Are you taking 10mg once a day or split into doses? that will make a hugh difference too that Zappy feeling. Speak with your Dr about spliting the dose. Diazepam has a very long half life of active metabolites (up to 200hours) then you get a cumlative effect, same as alcohol. Also Diaz has muscle relaxant qualities (xanax does not) which will give that dizzy (not real "feeling" [wink] 1mg of X is a big dose, so it will take several months to "normalize" then start reducing your Diaz. Importantly though, go SLOWLY it takes as long as it takes. If you stopped taking X abruptly and straight on to Diaz that will Defo give the symptoms your describing. Side note 1mg of xanax is approx equal to 20mg of diaz so your already taking half of your normal dose, again this will DEFO give you those symptoms. Ask about taking 4x5mg diaz every 4 hours. Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on [smile]e
carol20979 craig137
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judy96662 craig137
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Hi Craig:
Well, it's been 4 months since I last posted. Two weeks ago I decided to switch from the combo of Temezapam (7.5) and Diazepam ( down to 1 mg. from 2 mg. since my last post) to the equivalancy of 5 diaz. Had a couple of bad days with BP over 200, but rest and time allowed for adjustment. So here I am almost 2 wks. later with a few good days this past week, where I feel almost normal. I've always taken the benzos at night before bed because of sleep issues some 25+ years ago. Now each day I wake up with a foggy head and legs that feel unsteady. It's extremely frustrating after being use to walking 4 mi. in the forest 2-3x's a week before being forced by Dr. to get off benzo. I plan to reduce another 1/2 mg. tonight.
I have read where splitting dosage during the day seems to help others overcome some of the s/x. While the s/x before going all Diaz. were much worse, I'm thinking the diazepam with its long 1/2 life is making me feel better, but.... I've had this weakness in my legs for over a year now (that's how long I've been trying to taper). It does come and go with the good days. Do you think splitting the dosage could ease foggy brain and leg issue? Can it hurt to try or could it make things worse? But then how do I split the dosage? 4 mg at night, 1/2 mg. during the day? Pill cutters don't seem to be very accurate. Will that make a difference while tapering?
In addition, the "not so good" days are those when severe fatigue puts me on my back for a day or two. Thanks for any input you can provide. After my intial decision a few months back, not to taper any further, I've decided to give it another try. I simply must get my life back and enjoy the walks with nature and be more socially interactive once again.
craig137 judy96662
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Hi Judy
?Glad to hear from you. Yes I would defitely recommend splitting your dosage as this will in effect increase the duration of the effects of the Diaz, but at slightly less intensity, so it will defo help with the foggy head and wobblely legs, but it will take time for you to notice the difference in the effects, again this is due too the half life. As far as splitting the pill it's self the 2 best ways i have found is to either use a pair of nail clippers or simply bite it. Given the dosage the small varition in actual dose ingestated won't cause you any problems at all. The not so good days are part and parcel I'm afraid , but it sounds like your doing great and try and keep up those walks they are just as effective if not more so than the Diaz.
judy96662 craig137
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Hello again Craig:
You are like a breath of fresh air in a dark coal mine. You dispense more common sense/useful information than any neurologist or psychiatrist I've seen. The neurologist I saw said he wouldn't consider treating me, but instead gave me a prescription for Ritalin. That sent my BP into the stratosphere after one dose. He suggested I was in for a "world of hurt" when trying to get off this dreadful drug after 25+ yrs. and that it was worse than kicking heroine. Like I mentioned before the psychiatrist, specializing in addiction, took me off "cold turkey". Bad, bad, bad. So you see, I've been pretty much on my own and now with your kind and knowledgeable words I feel like I can do this. New internist is working with me, as she too wants to see me off, but has little knowledge re:tapering. She's agreed to keep me supplied with Diaz.
Thanks for the reasurance that cutting the pills doesn't have to be perfect. I've read where some felt it necessary to use a scalpel to assure
the dosage. Obviously, common sense says not necessary
I'll touch base with you as I continue this journey. There are some struggles ahead, for sure, but with your encouragement and thoughtfullness, I'll make it!
Judy
craig137 judy96662
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Hey again Judy
?Thank you so much for your kind words. Seeing people overcome the hurdles that life throws at us is , to me the best drug in the world. Unfortunately most of the "experts" you come across have'nt got the first clue as to what it's like to be in this type of situation, all they're programs and medications are based on decades old research and are therefore little more than academic. Only someone that's been "there" can truly know what you're going through. I won't pretend that I have'nt have had "bumps" along the way. And for a so called neurologist to say "you're in for a world of hurt" does'nt exactly fill you with confidence does it? Do please stay in touch, and of course you can always private message me if there are more "intimate" issues you would like too discuss. I'm not a Dr, but I've been there and done that, and that's all the education one needs. You never know maybe one day you can pay this forward and help someone else, but it feels my heart with joy to know that I am helping in some way.
Craig xox
judy96662 craig137
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xoxo backatcha!