Dizzy spell and fell over getting out of bed. Constant dizziness since

Hello

Thank you so much for answering.

No.  Nothing.  They all just say its my anxiety.

Kind Regards

Liz

I therefore recommend seeing someone who will examine you with the above included (ENT with a special interest in Neurology, or a Neurotologist).  This is important.

Eleftherios S. Papathanasiou, PhD, FEAN

Clinical Neurophysiologist

Fellow of the European Academy of Neurology

Thank you.

Hello

I have an appointment tomorrow with Dr S. S. Surenthiran.  He is said to be the best.

x

He's the neurotologist Gillian was talking about, isn't he? Sounds like you'll be in good hands there. (I'm surprised you got away with mentioning his name on this site btw!)

I'm sure that if there is something going on in either your ears, eyes or brain he'll get to the bottom of it. And if he gives you a clean bill of health, then you'll know for sure that you just have to address your anxiety. In the latter case, your anxiety will probably lessen anyway. There's nothing like not knowing whether there's something physically wrong with you to send your anxiety levels sky-high.

My money would be on feedback between a pre-existing state of anxiety and the occurrence of vestibular symptoms, but you're obviously going to see the man who'll get you a correct diagnosis.

GPs who simply dismiss symptoms as anxiety without investigating further really make me angry. It doesn't just happen with neurological or vestibular symptoms, nor is it a new phenomenon. 35 years ago I worked with a young woman whose 50-year-old mother had been treated for anxiety by her GP for almost a year because she was having difficulties swallowing. He wasn't entirely wrong, of course - the majority of cases like this are indeed down to anxiety. But he never once referred her for further investigation in all that time. When he finally got round to it, it was too late. The poor lady was admitted for emergency surgery but didn't survive it. Sadly, the newspapers and news sites are littered with similar cases.

It seems to be a particular problem in the UK. I'm sure recent funding cuts haven't improved things, but this is by no means new. There seems to be an ingrained attitude in too many British GPs - almost as if they don't want to be "made a fool of" (in their own eyes) by patients whose symptoms eventually turn out to be psychosomatic. This doesn't happen in my country, where GPs assume all symptoms have an underlying physical cause until proved otherwise by appropriate investigations. Admittedly, our ENTs don't seem to be much better than yours when it comes to vestibular disease but then we have much freer access to neurotologists specialised physios.

I think i might have to pop,over,to Belgium at some point for a consultation before the UK leaves EU. Haha! Having to massage GP's egos here is very tiresome! I once saw an .endocrinologist here as there were some doubts re my thyroid.  If you cld have experienced his attitude Lily you wld gasp! He was so dismissive of me and made me feel 2 inches small!  I stormed out of his office with a very curt 'Thamks a lot' with my back to him!,  my Holistic dr who,i related this to Said he wasnt surprised, but very disappointed (He used to be a medical,dr,before leaving medical.practice in disgust to go Holistic!).

Yup - I nearly fell under a bus last week in similar circumstances!

I was standing at a pedestrian crossing on a narrow stretch of road waiting for the lights to change when one of those 3-segment bendy buses came past very close. (Ours are much longer than the ones they have in London.) I suppose I must have been unintentionally trying to focus on it as it went by, but the next thing I was in a wild spin. I actually thought I was going to fall forwards for a moment and grabbed the arm of the somewhat startled young man standing next to me!

Goodness!

xx

Yes beat to stand back a bit. I dont like,big trucks whizzing past either. Do,either of you get nauseous on buses??

Hi Gillian

Nope. Im ok on transport.

Im brainstorming now, but I do recall my son mentioned something to do with the moon, so i looked up and felt off balance again!

Hope you are well.

x

Not any more, but I used to have terrible car and bus sickness up to my mid-20s. Sometimes so bad everything would go into a spin and I'd fall over when I got out. I'm fine these days - as long as I don't try to read, of course. That's always fatal.

I,m not always but the more tired i,am, or feeling unwell then it's,worse.  Cant do back seat on cars either. Used tombe car sock as am hild, them fine, started again after menopause, funny eh? But it got worse when i started the vertigo stuff.  Now go armed with coca cola, and mentholated sticks to breath in as seems to help take edge off.  And yes, deffo no looking down whatsoever. 

Hello

Oh my goodness, Im so sorry to hear about your neck.  How awful!

i have booked a GP appointment for tomorrow afternoon.

I have to go and collect the kids from school soon - I dread this.

Speak soon

x

Hang in there, Lizzie! And don't take any rubbish from your GP. Remember he's a public servant.

Hello

Thank you!

Im so nervous that he will say the usual - anxiety.

Ive had anxiety for 10 years and never felt like this before.

Im going to try the test tonight - Ive got to get the courage built up.  I had my hubbie nagging at me last night to do it.

Ill let you know.

Hope you are well.

x

Just imagine him sitting there in his chair naked! When he starts with the anxiety thing,just say, excuse me but my husband agrees with me (Often the mention of a 'superior person' helps!) that this is nothing to do with the cause, but the effect and i wish to be referred,to an ENT. Then dont speak,  let that silence speak! (And he s still naked in yr mind, haha). If in any way he tries to avoid that, just say, again, my husband wants me to see an ENT.  That's it, dont say anything else, don t try making explanations etc etc. Keep it short and to,the point,then you wont get flustered.  And dont worry anyway, because if the worst case scenario happened and he refuses, which I doubt, you can get a second opinion with a different dr  at the practice. Which again is standard practice for lots of people, so no biggie ok. Remember the GP isnt god and he,s paid by you the taxpayer, he's a public servant, just like a bus driver! Haha!

Picture him naked! Nice one Gillian! But you're quite right.

I just loved Gillian's spot-on advice.

One thing I'd add is that you shouldn't mention BPPV or any other possible diagnosis. That's always like a red rag to a bull with doctors. Just describe your symptoms accurately. For example, if you've had episodes where everything seemed to be spinning, or if you've actually fallen over in one of these attacks, mention that. (I think you did say you'd had one of these attacks when getting out of bed, which is a classic BPPV sign.) The generalised dizziness of anxiety rarely makes anyone actually fall over. And yes - tell him you accept that you suffer from anxiety (thus signalling that you accept his authority) but these symptoms are quite different. If you do psych yourself up to do the Dix-Hallpike test tonight and it's positive for one side or the other, just tell him things start spinning if you lie down too quickly but don't mention the test.

The best stance with doctors like this is stupid but not compliant. Don't let him think you know anything about your condition, just that you're not prepared to put up with any more and want to see a specialist!

Sadly, mentioning your husband probably is a good ploy. Sigh... But whatever you do, don't tell him you've been on a forum. Some doctors automatically pigeon-hole any patient who dares to research their own symptoms as a neurotic hypochondriac.

Hello

I tried to do it,but dont think i did it properly.

I must say, now my ears hurt inside!

x

Yes all,good,points too Lily. The egos are astounding, not just male drs either! Absolutely agree not to mention Google, research, forums, u have to,kind play dumb,  awful to say as far as it's all concerned, but not dumb in yourself, dont want him or her taking you for a fool,either!

T H Lizzie i wldnt do anymore exercises before you go. As Lily said dont mention you did it and yr ears hurting cos of that, but it wont hurt to,add 'hurting ears' to your list of symptoms!  It's,all black and white with some GP's so keep,it simple. Dont want to,overload you with advice, so just prioritise, maybe jot down on scrap of paper, which i do, bullet points of key words that ll make his ears prick up!   And dont forget his Birthday Suit,haha!, and try not to smile,too much if you do!

Thank you

Does it mean anything that my ears now hurt?

x

I cldnt say for sure. If it only started after u did the exercise and you do have 'crystals' (They are actually calcium deposits), they may have dislodged, bit i can only guess.  If they ache like an 'earache' when the gp looks in ur ear with the light he may see inflammation which cld maybe be an ear infection.  Don't stress on it too much if you can. Keep on top of it though and of course if it gets worse go back as they'd need to give you antibiotics if it's infection.  Good luck tomorrow. Just ask yr 'guardian angel' to make sure it's an easy consult for you. Am not religious but do,find them very helpful at times! 

Hi Lizzie,  how did you get on at drs today? Bit worried not heard?? ❌

Hello

That's so sweet thinking of me.

I saw him and tried to explain everything, but I had my list and the 1 minutes went so quickly.

He took my blood pressure and pulse sitting and standing.

He then gave me a quick neuro exam, and he said I passed with flying colours.  He then made me close my eyes and turn in a circle.

The more I think about my anxiety, it could be a big factor.  I get really dizzy when I go and collect the kids, Im dizzy in my house too.  These are the 2 worse places.

I went for a walk with the dogs retracing the school route and no dizziness until I got back in my house.

I have contacted a private neurologist that I could see on 22 March.

I also have an appointment with a top psychiatrist in London on the 18 March.

I shall tell her everything and see what she says and I may well just see the neuro guy anyway.

I know when I get dizzy, my legs stiffen up, and I get more dizzy because Im anxious.

He wasnt reallt interested in y falling over getting out of bed episode.

I had a brain CT just before christmas as Id had a sinus problem that lasted 7 weeks and it came back normal.  Im not quite sure what could have incidently be seen.

Are you in the UK?  Where I live there is an 18 weeks wait to see a specialist.

I dont know anymore.

Thank you for asking about me, I really appreciate it and I hope you are well.

xx

Is this the same gp you saw last time? And i'm really sorry to say that GP's doing a 'quick Neuro exam' is about as much use as a chocolate teapot, and then to say you passed with flying colours!!, oh Lizzie, that's,disgusting. He's not fit to say that. He's not qualified to do a 'Neuro exam' either.

We,all,get, or feel,dizzier in certain siuations, be it,indoors (I too am worse indoors than out with my dog example) .some people,feel,worse,on shops, supermarket aisles, I dont particularly.  You really do not need,to be spending money on a top shrink, there's nothing wrong with your mind by the sound of it. You are just anxious because you dont know what's going on, perfectly normal. If,you can afford it, spend yr money on seeing,a Neuro,Otologist, not just an ordinary neurologist (I'm in UK too, .surrey) who know the vestibular system. A regular Neuro is a specialist for the brain mainly. I,learned al, this the hard way, and the. neurologist i saw admitted she couldnt help me much unless I had a tumour or brain injury.  And as for the scans being 'Heralded, as normal, so,eg, there's nothing wrong with you. Is another misnomer. They are done primarily to rule things OUT, not in!

if,your legs stiffen up,when you get dizzy that is due,to,the muscles responding to your brain thatnisnt getting it's usual normal messages, nothing to do with anxiety. The anxiety is like a by product,of yr mind (Not physical brain) saying' hold on what's happening, this is scary. My legs have gone funny.  

It's very interesting because today I had a treatment i am having to help me with my problems as i also get, as a by product of this 'thing' awful neck and shoulder,,lower back muscular pain.  My therapist who i trust immensely, told me to,do a certain exercise involving legs! She said that the messages from muscles in legs to brain are super important!