Do You Pee Like A Horse
Posted , 13 users are following.
Several years ago, when my former uroloigst tried to talk me into a TURP, he mentioned the usual benefits such as more complete bladder emptying, less urgency, fewer night time trips to the bathroom, etc. But when he tried to close the deal, he looked at me, his eyes lit up, and he said, "Jim, you will pee like a horse"!
I guess he's not the only one who singles out flow rate when selling an operation, because I have heard the phrase here often attributed to both doctors as well as people reporting on how their flow rate changed after an operation or procedure.
What I'm curious about is the correlation between "peeing like a horse" and some of the other bph symptons such as incomplete bladder emptying, urgency, night time trips to the bathroom, etc.
So this question is for those of you here who "pee like a horse". (If you pee like a dog or cat no need to reply 
Have all your other symptons resolved, and if not, what is going on. Also, what is your current IPSS score and what type of procedure did you have?
Personally, I've never had a procedure done, and do not pee anything like a horse! In fact, I don't think I've had a strong stream since the age of 25 and before that frankly I can't remember!
That said, my bladder empties completely and my plumbing functions pretty normally considering I'm pushing 70. In fact, things work better now then they did when I was in my 20's. My IPSS score is around an "8"" (borderline mild) but it would be closer to a "3" if the "weak stream" question wasn't in there. I understand that a weak stream suggests bph but it really doesn't affect lifestyle like the other questions unless I guess extending your void time ten seconds cuts into your work or social life 
If you don't know your IPSS score, I will post a link shortly in a follow up post.
Jim
0 likes, 71 replies
jimjames
Posted
Link to IPSS Score (International Prostate Sympton Score) in first post of the following thread:
https://patient.info/forums/discuss/what-is-your-international-prostate-sympton-score--453484
Howard31850 jimjames
Posted
I was also told I would pee like a horse after my PAE. Well it has been over 3 months and the horse still wins!
Neil
jimjames Howard31850
Posted
Sorry about the horse winning!
My stream has been weak since my early twenties after several bouts of STD's within a short period of time. The uro way back then suggested scar build up from the STD's as the cause, however the uro's I've seen more recently never mentioned anything about scarring or strictures even though I have asked, been imaged and scoped and then asked again. So, perhaps my weak stream doesn't have to do with my bph, perhaps it does now. But the main point is that at least with me that weak stream doesn't translate into incomplete emptying, it only translates into a few seconds more doing my business. Let's see if any race horses show up and hear their story!
Jim
Jezzaman Howard31850
Posted
Hi All,
I have had a PAE and certainly do not pee like a horse. However like Jim
I am fairly sure I am voiding completely. I had a US Bladder scan 6 hours after Ihad a Foley catheter removed and there was 18ml of urine present!
I would be prepared to bet that even if I underwent a "succesful" TURP my flow rate would not increase much if at all. I can live with that. my problem is going into AUR after drinking too much Beer; something I am reluctant to give up.
jimjames Jezzaman
Posted
Still no race horses! 18ml is pretty good and I'd dare say more important than peeing like a horse. As discussed in the other thread, don't count on an operation or procedure changing anything in regards to AUR after too much beer. It might. Might not. As I mentioned over there, if that was my only issue then I would either just watch my beer, or learn how to self cath so I could continue to enjoy drinking without worrying about going to the doc's or ER for a Foley.
In fact, although our histories are different, symptomatically we're now similar in that I believe both of us have normally functioning urinary systems with the exception of occasional AUR caused by too much fluid overload of the bladder. So when I say I'd forgo any procedures and just keep some caths on hand, I'm recommending to you what I'm doing myself.
Jim
Jezzaman jimjames
Posted
It makes sense Jim. As you say if I allowed myself to undergo an irreversible procedure such as HOLEP or Green Light and found I still went into AUR after too many beers but now had RE or worse then I'd feel pretty sick.
I think the next step for me is to conquer this self cathing.
My only current concern is my symptoms are worse, ie frequency, and reduced flow. Do you think this might the bladder's reaction to 2 episodes of AUR within a month? Or is this now me and I have to get used to it?
Jeremy
cartoonman jimjames
Posted
Hi again, JimJames!
Why does the phrase, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" come to mind? :-D As long as you are completely voiding at our age, it seems to me you're doing fine. No one is standing there with a stop watch (are they?!); it's most important that you CAN empty the bag! After 2+ years of on-and-off self-cathing, I've been thinking (as I did mention on another thread yesterday) that if urologists really had our best interests in mind (my conclusion is they typically don't... :-( ) , then they would teach self-cathing as a way to AVOID prescribing TURPs. The worst symptom of of BPH is the "number of times per night I gotta get up and pee" thingy. It's this that drives men to sleepless nights of non-rest, and then when they are punchy and least resistant to coersion, the uro-doc moves in for the kill. "It's the 'Gold Standard,' you know!...and it'll fix ALL your problems and LET YOU SLEEP THROUGH THE NIGHT!" "Uh, sure, doc, I gotta get some sleep!"
With self-cathing, I do so before bedtime, and ALMOST ALWAYS sleep through the night. Last night was an exception, and as I stood there cathing at 4:00 am or whateve, I thought, "Sheesh, I'm glad this only happens once a month!"
I would certainly encourage you to look into self-cathing (SpeediCaths are the best, imho!)... Forget peeing like a race horse; can you remember what sleeping through night felt like??? :-)
jimjames Jezzaman
Posted
Jezzaman,
Not sure if it was the AUR, all the stress your system has been under with the Foley, etc, or just a normal progression of BPH. Time will tell.
The operations and procedures are always there, but since you've already started cathing, see no harm going on a cath program now and see how things go. If you don't like it, then you can always try one of the less invasive procedures if you qualify.
I had a lot of difficulty with self cathing the first couple of months but then I didn't have a choice since my bladder then was too flaccid for an operation or procedure anyway. But honestly, if those difficulties continued I would have dropped the self cathing and gotten whatever operation or procedure I deemed best at the time. Fortunately, like some others here, after a little tie, the self cathing turned out to be virtually painless and not much of a bother.
Jim
harveybronx cartoonman
Posted
According to an April 15, 2015, American Journal of Clinical and Experimental Urology review article: "HoLEP: the gold standard for the surgical management of BPH in the 21st Century," HoLEP is the new gold standard, replacing traditional TURP. It's just difficult to find physicians who are experienced in performing HoLEP. And HoLEP also has its good and bad.
The article is available at: ajceu.us, Volume 3, No. 1, pages 36-42.
Harvey
kenneth1955 harveybronx
Posted
I think I read that. I'm glad that there trying to get rid of the turp but it is true there are alot of doctor that only know the turp surgery. Holep is less blooded but it still come with alot of side effects that men do not want and are talk into by there doctor. Retro suck and you have to way the pro and con. Is it worth peeing a little more to loose the orgasm and ejaculation that your use to. To having a flat feeling that is not worth the time.. That is the was it was for me. No way in hell. Will I live like that. Urolift PAE and Ruzem is the way to go if you can have it done....This is my opinion Ken
jimjames harveybronx
Posted
Harvey,
The way these invasive procedures are promoted over less invasive procedures, the "gold standard" might also apply to the amount of money the urologists make from the procedure.
My understanding is that HoLep has a significant incidence of permanent retro ejaculation, to name one side effect.
The way it seems to work is that urologists know and promote whatever procedure they were trained in. So if they do button turps they don't mention Holep and vice versa. None of the urologists promote PAE because PAE isn't done by urologists, it's done by interventional radiologists.
And self cathing -- well, no doctor really makes money on that one, so don't expect them to push it or even be very knowledgeable about it. I know more about self cathing than my eminent urologist, and those were his words!
Jim
oldbuzzard jimjames
Posted
My ipss score is 8-9. I don't pee like a horse, but my flow si greatly improved. The biggest problem is that I normally have to strain or pump under my scrotum to get the last 20% or so out and my problem now is bladder function not the prostate. The wierd thing is that I didn't seem to have bladder issues prior to the Ruzum procedure. But other than not being able to empty without a little work (extra 15 seconds or so at most) and having to pump all most all of it out when I drink a lot of alcohol I'm in pretty good shape now. My ipss used to be 19-21, so its dropped alot. I get up once a night most nights - it used to be 2-4. I never could go more than two hours between bathroom trips during the day and now its been as much as 4.
jimjames oldbuzzard
Posted
Before I started self cathing I had to push on my bladder get the urine out. My understanding is that pushing on the scrotum is more useful to just clear out the urethra of the few last drops (Post Micturition Dribble--PMD) but apparently in your case not.
It may or may not be relevant but one of the causes of PMD is weakening of the pelvic muscles from prostate procedures. They then suggest pelvic floor exercises if you haven't already tried them.
Not sure if you're motivated, but instead of pushing it out, you could start cathing for a few months to give things a total rest which might accelerate any needed healing.
Jim
oldbuzzard jimjames
Posted
I'm not sure that self cathing would improve my bladder function, I think normal use is the best thing for it now as it's still slowly improving. I see my Uro in two weeks and I'll ask him.
kenneth1955 jimjames
Posted