Drinking every day...

It works, and the reason it works is that it is far easier to take a pill and wait an hour, than white knuckle it through cravings day after day while abstinent.

It DOES take a person being well enough organised to take that pill though. What you need to understand is that, initially, you may be desperate to get to your first drink. The effect of the medication is that it stops that urgency, slows down your drinking, and changes how your body reacts to alcohol so that it is much easier to get yourself organised. And the difference occurs in many people very very quickly, even after the first pill, the desire to drink a lot is eliminated and I have had people tell me that they poured a drink and forgot they had it.

I LOVE your description of how the craving takes over.

You described the craving phenomen perfectly!  There is NO TIME.

They do talk about this pill alot...and it DOES seem to help MANY people.  

Paul would not agree with my take on this...and Joann wouldn't either...but I am going to tell you what I KNOW I would do...if I was considering taking this pill.

I WOULD...take it as soon as I woke up....because odds for me when I am actively drinking are that I AM going to drink within 2 hours of waking up.

AND...no one here is a scientist....and my thought is once you put a PILL in your body.....it is going to do something ALL DAY...or at least for many hours of a day....so if I chose this method...I would try to at least get the pill in my body and then if I drank....3 or 4 hours later....I personally would think it would be better that I took it.....than not taking it at all.

Additionally, maybe if you did take the pill in this way....your cravings upon awakening would be lessened or your cravings in general wouldn't be so drastic....

But, I'm like you....there is NO WAITING once the decision is made to drink...none....I'm like a maniac...it hits...and I'm like GET OUT OF MY WAY....i'm going now!

 

But my point Missy, is that once you have started taking the pill, that urge reduces dramatically. Then you have better control. Most people who start The Sinclair Method have very little faith that it will change the urge they have to drink. Almost without exception, those who do it correctly, are amazed how it works with very little willpower and just a bit of planning which gets easier and easier as time passes.

All due respect Paul.

You were not an alcoholic....I totally get your point.....BUT isn't taking the pill better than NOT taking the pill?

I'm saying eventually me or the person that at least succumbs to TRYING some method...would eventually be able to plan the drinking better after having this pill in their system....I'm not saying it is a FACT...

I'm only saying what I would do...if I were to have any success with this method.

And for me it would work...because when I am active...I am always drinking withing 2 hours of waking...and I think ALOT people that are far into the end stage of alcoholism can not stay away from a drink for more than 2 hours after waking.

So, if I were drinking and I took the pill when I got up even if I didn't think I was going to drink....I know from experience my thinking I'm not going to drink when I am active is FALSE.  And then all of a sudden I have that compelling urge like Peter mentions....had I taken the pill I would have a CHANCE of this method working for me.

If I have to plan when these compelling urges are going to hit?  That is impossible and I know I have read many people failing with the method on here...because they didn't take the pill 2 hours before and they end up getting discouraged and not taking the pill or continuing with this method.

I second Paul's comment here.  Not because I am such a supporter of this method, but because he is right.

Misssy, I respect your decision about the treatment you are taking, but must point out that you are basing your expectations of how you would need to work this method to suit you best, on your usual drinking pattern and behaviour. 

However, you have never drank on naltrexone to know that when you do, it is completely different to what you expect or have experienced before.

When you are actively drinking without naltrexone, that 'more, more, more' voice is screaming in your head.  When you drink on naltrexone, that screaming to continue drinking is silent.  It no longer drives you to drink until you end up in hospital.  In fact, I have never (in over 3 years now) ever heard of anyone using this method correctly, to have ended up in hospital because of a drinking session. 

Imagine your last binge but without the completely irrational insanity of continuing for days.  Without that screaming drive to continue drinking, you are able to make a more rational decision long before then.  You won't have the insanity of needing to drink in the morning.....

At best, it completely stops the binge.

At worst, it stops the binge being so prolonged as to have someone drinking for days on end and finishing up in hospital.

You don't have to plan an urge to drink, but you do have to wait an hour.  Or, at least as close to an hour as you possibly can in the beginning.

Though I agree that it can be useful to speak to, and get support from, people who have suffered addiction, I don't believe it is something that absolutely necessary.  If people feel it is, then AUD is the only medical condition I can think of, on which recovery is based on only taking the importance of what is being said by others who suffer the condition above a consultants advice.  For example, if someone is unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer, no-one asks a cancer specialist consultant if they have had cancer.

Logical explanation.  Nice one .......G.

Thank you, Gwen.  I've just had so many people tell me exactly what Misssy is saying and then be surprised what the reality actually is.

Alcohol Use Disorder is a physical illness, Missy. This is a physical treatment. While those who have suffered an alcohol problem themselves are certainly best placed to offer emotional support from the point-of-view of 'I have been there. I know how it feels.'

However, would you ONLY see a heart specialist who had had a heart attack? Or an orthopaedic surgeon who had broken the same bone as you?

It is regarded by some as almost an 'exclusive club' where only those who are members can help those currently in a worse situation than them. That method has not worked for more than 90% of people.

Whether a person has had an alcohol problem or not makes no difference to their ability to help those that do. It's about having the knowledge, the experience and an understanding built on working with many people suffering from this awful disorder.

Joanna has summarised how it feels better than I can. It really DOES work and everybody who uses TSM is massively shocked by the difference that pill can make.

All I'm suggesting is that ...an alcoholic who drinks EVERYDAY...pretty much knows they are going to drink...and those types that know it should just take the pill upon waking.

All drugs do not work the same for ALL people.

There is a protocol for taking Gabapentin for pain....3x a day 300mg.

However, 300 - 2x a day works wonders for some.

My Dr....also does not always take medication as prescribed (she admits).

Unless you have taken the pill or physically have been involved in the treatment...you have no way of knowing everything about that particular pill or how it affects you.

I'm simply suggesting for those that are failing to take the pill at all...to try something different...to see if it CAN work for them..I'm not saying it will.

I worked in Pharmaceuticals and drugs are found during research to work many different ways for different indications than they were intended for..

.I don't know if it has ever been studied in clinical trials the effectiveness of taking the pill other than within the 2 hour window?  

And if there have been studies...I'm certain there are a percentage of people that took it at various times and it still worked...may not be a high percent...but if I am the one person this pill would work for...and I was failing to meet the 2 hour window...I would try ANYTHING...if I wanted to get better. 

I added my Dr doesn't take medication as prescribed...because I want to point out...that most Drs and Nurses tend to be very ridgid....its one way....and that is it...

My Dr. is of the belief...if it works for you...that is what you do.

Also with Campral...the normal dosage is 2 pills 3x a day.

I told my Dr. I could not take that many without stomach problems....I told her I was taking 3 a day and that i have no cravings....she said IF IT WORKS...KEEP DOING it.

Everyone is different and has different reactions to medication.

I don't care what medication it is.

Actually, I do like to "pick" my Drs based on any experience or knowledge they have concerning whatever condition I am seeking treatment for.

My Dr. has Fibromyalgia.....and because of that...I chose her to be my new primary care.

My Dr.s husband was an addict.....that was another reason to keep her.

If I came down with cancer....or anything else...NO I would not refuse to see a DR. that has never had cancer...but I do believe....if there was one in this area...he would be beneficial to me.....

Additionally, my Gastro Dr....is an alcoholic in recovery.

SO yea...I suppose MOST people don't "interview" their Dr.....to get a background...but they should since their lives are in their hands for the most part.

I don't LIKE my Neurologist....yes, she has found things wrong with my brain...but she doesn't have anyone in her family with MS....or brain abnormalities...both my sisters are "brain affected".

I told my Neurologist that I may switch to go to my sisters MS Dr...because that Dr....has a realative with Tramatic brain injury....and that Dr. would probably be a better fit for me.

Paul, like Joanna, awsome reply - I am on another forum also but I have never seen anything as good as the comments on here - it is literally light bulb moments and light at the end of this awful tunnel.   I had given up,  thinking I was a lost cause, but reading these posts has booted me up the preverbial.  Brilliant..............G.

You are right Missy. Nobody can predict which people will get side effects, which people will get most benefit and which people it may not work for. The only way to know is for that particular person to try it.

Naltrexone is licenced for use in the UK for people who are abstinent. It doesn't work, that is a waste of time. We therefore have to use it by prescribing it 'off-licence' to people who are told they should drink after taking a pill.

The drug that is licenced in the UK for use with people who are still drinking is Nalmefene. We have stopped using that because of the extremely uncomfortable side effects some people suffer.

Naltrexone only needs to be taken 1 hour before the first drink, Nalmefene is advised 1.5 to 2 hours before the first drink.

Naltrexone remains active in the body for 8-10 hours. You don't HAVE to drink within 1 or 2 hours of taking it, but it is a bad idea to take it in the morning and then drink in the evening because it will have worn off. Nalmefene stays active in the body a little longer.

Again, powerful stuff - I have a Gastro Doc (not dependent) but my now retired Doc had an alcoholic hubby - it has got to be what helps you -  it sucks this problem and I envy people who don't have it. 

Big hug x

You know your stuff betr than a doc thats for sure.

Misssy, Dr Sinclair spent over 20 years researching the best way to take the medication and yes, the clinical trials have been extensive in terms of proving his theory that targetting the drinking endorphins in the first instance worked much, much better.

That specific targeting doesn't happen to the maximum effect if it is taken much earlier than that because, under those circumstances, the endorphins that are blocked first and foremost will not be the endorphins from drinking, but the endorphins from whatever other activities you might do prior to drinking.  For some who take it on waking, that might include a little early morning sexual activity, or perhaps the breakfast they eat.

The act of pharmacological extinction (which is the medical term for this method) happens when the following equation is followed:

Craving = take tablet + wait the time + drink.

That is over 20 years worth of research.  By doing the above and ONLY taking the tablet when you experience an actual craving (not an anticipated or expected craving) means that the brain learns that craving no longer equals reward.

And as treatment progresses, people find that they have gone alcohol free for a day, and therefore not taken a tablet and as a result of not taking a tablet, enjoyed all the endorphins that were released during the day.  That also helps the pendulum swing away from alcohol because someones brain realises that they enjoyed a day without drinking.

That can't happen if the tablet is taken too early because it doesn't encourage someone to have a day with no alcohol but lots of other endorphins.

I am going to bow out of this conversation now,  I know you are taking campral and that seems to be going ok for you now, which is great and I am happy for you :-) 

Science is always challenged.....and hopefully I will never need to try Naltraxone.....

I just read about the Sinclair method...a little bit...and yes...it is this Drs approach to beating alcoholism...taking it one hour before..

However Naltraxone is prescribed once daily or in the evening by Doctors for alcohol intake reduction without the clause of waiting one hour.

So TECHNICALLY...if you believe in the Sinclair Method...than of course...speak for it.

However, DOCTORS DO PRESCRIBE THIS PILL ONE TIME A DAY FOR THE SAME PURPOSE>>>ALCOHOL REDUCTION.

In other words...the Sinclair method is not the only method for which Naltraxone is taken to reduce drinking.

Hey...Welcome...and yes, I push for what helps me.

I'm always honest with my Doctors when they prescribe something as to if I am open to take it or not.....or I call right away if I have an unpleasant reaction.

It doesn't have to be an allergic reaction either...If I don't like the way a medication makes me feel.....I don't take it.

I was just prescribed something by a Urologist...and I told my Dr...that I haven't taken it yet....she suggested I do NOT take it because she knows how I am and I have started on 2 new meds...I'm not willing to try more.

I never want a Doctor who says...you take it this way.....or I am going to concede that you are not compliant with my directions...I would tell that Dr. to take a hike!

LOL....good day

I'm an alcohol treatment specialist nurse, Gwen

Just read your profile Paul, I see you are in Stafford, I wish you were in Manchester.  My doc has referred me to a Smart Recovery Clinic but it is two bus rides away and I know I won't stick to it - there is an AA meeting 5 mins walk from me but I really don't want that and my local hospital is 5 mins walk and they have an Alcohol/Addiction clinic.  I truly believe that I can only do this by tapering down slowly (scared of side effects) I will put money on it that my doc does not know th TSM - she often tells me that she learns something knew from me after my research.  Where, in your opinion, would be the best place to get me started on TSM?  Or do you know of ATSN like yourself that I  could take on privately. 

I have tried Hypnotherapy Sessions for anxiety/panic/over drinking but it did not stop any of the problems. 

I am not getting anywhere and I hate my buzz disappearing, I am on this earth to help people and listen to their problems and making them feel good and happy, but I am losing that and I don't like it one bit.

Any help is massively appreciated.  Hugs to all you guys on here who are finding this very hard just llike myself.

I'm in Warwickshire, Gwen, sent you a private message.

This discussion is crazy as there are some people with such extreme views are everyone's journey is different. I think your in out is great. For some it's a physical thing where they need effects of alcohol to go away and take pills. For others it's a routine and emotional thing and no pill can resolve that xx

Fat fingers 😂

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