Enduring pred. vs. how much pain?

Posted , 11 users are following.

I know related comments have been made, but I'm still wondering just how much aching one should endure, if ANY, before moving prednisone higher. One and a half years ago my PMR started with loaded pain and aching. After weeks, the prednisone seemed to reduce that to constant, daily exhaustion. I was down to 10 pred., but have had flareups and just yesterday SO reluctantly went from 20 t0 25 because of aching across shoulders & arms. Has anyone or a dr. quantified the amount we "should"  endure, or must we try to eliminate all aching? Also, while taking calcium supplement, has ANYONE seen obvious adverse effects from the prednisone? My mother was on pred. 20 YEARS with her GCA and didn't, but I don't want to try or face that.

-Ron

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  • Posted

    I'm at 10 mg and starting a slow reduction to 9 mg.  I do have a bit of aching in my shoulders, but its very minor, so I'm pressing ahead, and since I'm using the DSNS as suggested on this forum I feel that I'll have my best chance of keeping negatives in hand.  I otherwise feel so good that I walk 2 hours a day, split into 3 sessions after meals to help lower my blood sugar since I have pred induced diabetes....at least technically.  I'm usually able to keep my numbers in the normal range.

  • Posted

    to the best of my knowledge not quantified.

    I initially thought the balance was between pred and symptoms. I later started wondering what damage was occurring due to the pmr symptoms, even when mostly suppressed by pred. I still don't know.

    At around 10mg pred my inclination was to tolerate quite a bit of stiffness while the pain was controlled. Much better than pred side effects. Now I'm down to 2 1/2 mg pred the side effects are much reduced and I prefer reduced pmr symptoms.

    Exercise and to a lesser extent diet seem to effect the symptoms.

    My simple picture suggests the longer I leave a potential flare the more pred will be required to knock it on the head. My limited experience is tto recognise any change in symptoms and act earlier rather than later. For example my wrists have been more painful that usual in the mornings this week and a couple of days of 3 1/2 mg seem to have reduced the pain then back to 2 1/2 mg.

    • Posted

      Julian, that describes my feelings almost perfectly.  I think, however, that perhaps you and I are among a fortunate group which can do this.  And unlike Tinaj it took me just over a year to get to 3 mg from start at 15 where I've discovered I need to stay for a while.  We are all different, and I think Tinaj marks one extreme on the spectrum, you and I are fortunately fairly near that end, there are others in the middle who take longer to achieve a low dose, and at the other end of the spectrum are those who have to stay at higher doses for far longer.  Perhaps in part it has something to do with our particular sensitivity to prednisone.  I felt very early on, even before tests proved it, that pred was subtly robbing me of my good health, which seems strange as it also gave me back my life!  Therefore it became imperative to reduce to the lowest possible dose as efficiently as I could.  But I could not have stopped pred altogether.  And, yes, I am one of those who almost obsessively is careful of diet and exercise and has used some alternative therapies.  I still have PMR and if I were to come off pred I know within a week or two I'd be crippled again. 

    • Posted

      I think I've mentioned a few times I think I'm lucky.

      Just a small example. I mentioned the pain in my wrists. The day after I mentioned it I had anniversary coronary stress echo test. Tuesday here. No obvious problems but perversely after gasping for breath while they probed me with ultrasound after elevating heart rate to max (just another 10 seconds they said .....) the wrist pain is much reduced.

      Not a treatment I'd recommend but adds to the suspicion that if the pmr pain is a result of things that aren't removed due to inflamed blood vessels moving the blood faster may have a beneficial effect, though of course the opposite effect can occur with repetitive movements of effected muscles.

      A couple of days later the pain is back a bit but not as bad. Not as intrusive. Though I'm not sure if carrying groceries into the house today was such a good idea.

      A year ago I noticed similar with the coronary rehab. I thought I was lucky I didn't create a flare, instead I got to use the muscles that had deteriorated in the earlier part of pmr and regain a heap of fitness.

      I was a bit understated about the pred side effects. It messed with my head. I was very keen to stop but couldn't bear the thought of a return to untreated pain. But as you say, lucky I could reduce relatively fast, and lucky my wife is still talking to me.

      A spectrum is a nice image for me. I spent a large slice of my professional life refusing to put things in little boxes. I tend to look for aspects that are the same rather than different. So yes, for some it takes longer than others, for some its more painful than others, for some the pred side effects are more intrusive. And we are all different colours in the spectra.

  • Posted

    Hi Ron, My CRP was 80 to start in June and 50mg for 2 days then down to 25mg for 2 months. At that I was mostly pain free within 2 hours of taking Pred. Have been slowly coming down and this week tried 17.5 mg but I am in too much pain so have taken it up another 1 mg and hope that will kick in with the next couple of days. The suggestion to me was slowly to reduce and I want to be nearly pain free so that I can have some quality of life and enjoy doing some of the less strenuos activities that I used to do. I am a woodturner and wood artist so being able to do that is important to me.
  • Posted

    The pain is an indication that you have excessive inflammation (regardless of what your CRP or ESR levels are) and with that in mind, it needs to be treated (see my post to Tina about untreated inflammation!)

    Personally I take enough pred to ensure that my inflammation is kept as low as possible and by that I mean as pain free as possible.

    • Posted

      "regardless of what your CRP or ESR levels are"

      That remark is both interesting and disturbing at the same time.  My nurse practitioner for example said that my inflamation level is down, but apparently those are secondary markers for the illness, yes?  I'd like to think it implies that I have a good shot at some reduction (I'm starting DSNS) but its markers like interleukin 6 that matter, isn't it...you know, the ones Rheumy's don't bother to measure when you have PMR.

    • Posted

      Interesting point.  I wonder if any studies have been done to determine whether measuring the things which actually cause the inflammation gives a better picture of disease activity, or whether it's too variable to be useful.

    • Posted

      PMR is an interesting beast - there is no one 'test' to prove or disprove its presence. You can have one or many of the markers and one or many of the symptoms.

       First and foremost I use the 'how do I feel' test. The blood markers are only an indication that there is inflammation in your body, they don't tell you anything about how the disease is manifesting at any given time. AND, just to be contrary - your blood markers don't have to be raised to have PMR! 

    • Posted

      My guess is yes, but it's too variable! How do you know what's causing inflammation at any given time?

  • Posted

    Hi Ron,  First of all I agree with FlipDover.  When I was diagnosed with PMR was started on 20 mg. which did the trick and I felt great!  Had tons of energy...until I started to reduce.  No way around it, reductions are difficult and should be done slowly.  Long story short, my then Rheumy said if I could work through the reduction pain, I should, but if pain got bad to increase to last dosage at which I felt ok.  That was for PMR.  I  then got GCA and started at 60.  I would not apply the foregoing philosophy to GCA because of the clear possibility of blindness or stroke.  Whenever I reduced and had headaches, I went back up on the last dose I felt good on and then back down...and up again if necessary, etc.  It's a love/hate relationship with Prednisone.  Good luck to you.

    • Posted

      Oxy was my go to when I had to get off pred for another illness.  Its a poor substitute for pred when it comes to PMR, but if you'd come in between me and my bottle of it, we'd have come to blows...lol.

  • Posted

    Thanks SO much to all!!! I now tell people I have 3 painkillers: My oxycodone I rarely take when the associated headaches are heading toward a migraine, my beloved Bichon/Jack Russell terror (not terrier), and this LIST serve! I've been helped FAR more from you folk than from my doctors. And we can't beat your rates!  Please--all of you--[u]know[/u] you make a difference--Ron 

  • Posted

    Hi Ron, I have recently found this support group and I cannot tell you how greatful reading these discussions makes me feel so not alone. I have been recently diagnosed with both PMR and  GCA. This was after waking up one day in such horribly debiliatating full body pain that I endured for two weeks before taking myself to emergency. I was actually suicidal, the pain was so horrific. I am still working with my rheu speaciliast tring to find the right dose of pred that reduces my flaires. I simply have found I do not hesitate to take a pain med when needed during flaires. I started this whole new to me health perplexing issue with double vision which included temporal head pain, which no pain med releived. My specalist has told me to use that voice in my head to do what is best for me with my pain med, and increasing my pred on days when I have flaires. Stating the risk are far more dangerious. I believe this is one of those areas we have to give ourself permission and listen to what works best for us and might not work best for others. 

    Sheila

  • Posted

    My guess, if there was a easy solution we would all be doing whatever it would take. I do have particular nuances even before being diagnosed. My pain with flaires that I expereince is horribly debiliatating and intolerable. I do not hesitate in upping my pred nor taking a pain med. I do like reading suggestions, and have implement many of them during flaires. I also started keeping a journal, to see if I have a pattern that might show me a predictable possibility of getting a flaire day. I like you wish this would just simply go away. 

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