Fear of Dying From Heart Problems... Help!

I’ve been on Citalopram for 5 years - 20mg.  My doctor increased my dose to 30mg because my anxiety came back.  I’ve been on the increase for almost 7 weeks.

Ok so with the increase is like starting celexa all over again for most people..give it 12 weeks to let your brain get use to the higher dose..is working don't be full by your long lasting blips...the weaning process and the start up effects of a new ssri ..are such a nightmare..I would stick to this until the 3month mark..take care

Yeah, I’m trying to control my thoughts, but they’re just really bad right now

ac

You can't control your thoughts - this will only reinforce them.  Take a look at those video's I mentioned, there's a particular one about thoughts.  If you want to be rid of of the fear of that particular thought and anxiety, then the thoughts and the anxiety have to be allowed to come and go and for you to not to react to them.  Oh its by no means simple I know, but its the way forward.  If you've suffered for 5 years already trying to control it then surely that means its not worked.  Try the other approach by allowing yourself to pass through - only then will you be free.

If you keep fighting the anxiety it will only reinforce it.  Letting it be there and your body becomes desensitised to it.  Its the same as learning to be unafraid of a spider ....... by letting it be there, relaxing, getting on with what you need to, then over time that spider fear will subside.

Yes the meds will help bring about the same result, but learning about anxiety too will give you double the tools you need.

K xxxx

Hello Kate ..do you think ac increase of celexa is also causing issues with health anxiety???🤔

Wow that is some very good advice I have been suffering really bad with health anxiety this last week or so after having propananol today I have felt calmer but also from reading your advice it has really put things at ease in my mind x

I expect so - increasing meds gives you heightened anxiety, and of course with that comes those thoughts again.  

 

Hi Maria

Yes most of us have some sort of fears that seem to attach itself to us when the original problem was probably just anxiety.  Anxiety stems from stress, and when it becomes too much it results in anxiety which is basically just an outpouring of adrenaline.  This feels frightening and can make us fear it ....... and often depending on where you are at the time the anxiety first strikes, can often depend what your fears become.  For example, if you're in a shop when you first feel it, then you may not only fear the anxiety but you can fear going into the shop ........ but in reality its not the shop that you fear, but the anxiety itself.  The problem then starts to grow as the person starts the avoidance game.

Same happens for thoughts (which is what happened to me), something in particular may be thought of at the time the anxiety strikes, and that thought also becomes frightening.  Those thoughts can grow too which can be about anything - your health, about your family, yourself ......... anything.

Equally at the same time your brain goes into overdrive trying to sort the problem out, which just gets you further into a muddle.  We constantly search for an answer online, reading good and bad stories, finding this cure and that cure .......... which just adds to the confusion ........ all of which make us further anxious and very, very tired.

The key to all this is anxiety.  We are afraid of a feeling.  That's it.  It is of course all masked by all the fears and thoughts we have, but all paths lead back to that one thing - anxiety.

I had 16 years of this crap, going round in circles, trying to control it, always searching for an answer.  I began to learn about anxiety and how it worked and how to help myself, and with this knowledge AND the meds, I was eventually able to recover.  Now I can see how I had also got into the anxiety / fear / anxiety trap.

Understanding all this has helped me be meds free too, as I no longer fear anxiety 

K xx

 

That is amazing information I hope. One day I will be in the same situation as you you must be so proud of yourself for what you have achieved and with all your knowledge been able to give good advice to people like myself did you reaseaech all this information or have you had therapy. X

Hi katecogs - sorry for the late reply (been at work).  Thank you so much for the kind words.  I want so badly to believe them, but my fear/anxiety won’t let me.  It truly believes that at the moment - I am not safe from any amount of stress/anxiety setting my heart off and doing me in.  

I know I brought this particular fear to life myself - last night I was on the web and looking up all the causes of a heart attack to try and reassure myself that I wasn’t at any risk so I could stop worrying.  Got to the part about how stress can increase your chances and promptly freaked out x.x

A couple weeks ago, I was still afraid of something bad happening to me, but was able to reassure myself that it was just the anxiety and that it can’t hurt me.  But now I just can’t believe that anymore

I know that when they indicated stress they probably are referring to it not helping if you’re already at an advanced ago or are obese, already have heart issues, etc.  But for some reason - just knowing that  I do have stress/anxiety I fear for myself.

I don’t think I should still be experiencing side effects from the increase from Celexa.  I’m nearly at 7 weeks now.  I feel so discouraged too because I don’t remember feeling like this this far into the med when I first went on the 20mg all those years ago

Sometimes I feel life is so unfair.   I will try and look at the videos you mentioned katecogs and see if they help.

Your basically starting the process all over again when you up your dose...so hang on for 12weeks..and ask doctor for a short term benzo ..that will help you tremendously..you need to calm your nervous system..

Hi ac

That's why you shouldn't read anything online - its not helping you recover.  When you're suffering anxiety you will have anxious and negative thoughts, and you will be drawn to negative comments online too.  Just don't read them.  If you want to recover then you have to make a start somewhere ..... and that can start by not searching online for symptoms that you don't have.

Your anxiety / fear won't let you at the moment ....... but if you start making changes, then everything else will start to follow.  Making changes won't make a difference today or tomorrow, but you have to keep persevering and it will happen.

I know how believable those fears are - I had them, many of them, and know how strong they are.  I truly believed there was something wrong with me, I'd constantly look for an answer, felt comfort in some stories and was scared by others.  New thoughts and fears would emerge and each new one felt ten times worse than the previous one.  But I was doing this to myself even though I didn't realise at the time - I was keeping that anxiety fresh and alive by being afraid of anxiety's side effects ....... thoughts and beliefs.  They were so strong I never thought I'd be free of them, and I never believed it was just anxiety that was the cause of all my problems.  I could never believe that my thoughts would never stop causing me anxiety, because I only had to think of them and I'd get a whoosh of anxiety fire through my body, reducing me to tears.  It was like my brain HAD to think of the worst possible thought or scenario, as if to test myself if I still had anxiety.  But I had to learn to let those thoughts be there, had to let that anxiety shoot through me and I had to learn not to react to it.  My god it was hard - my body naturally wanted to go on the defence, but I had to do the opposite of what it wanted to do ....... and that was let it all happen, let the thoughts rage, let that anxiety come time after time ....... and just relax towards it and carry on.  Your body and mind relearns that it is not in danger, and as the anxiety lessens so do those anxious thoughts and all those health anxiety thoughts too.

Stress and anxiety won't harm you - its your body's natural defence system and is actually there to protect you from danger.  Its been a human feeling for 1000's and 1000's of years that has helped many a man from probably fleeing a woolly mammoth, to sailing the seven seas in raging storms and helping when in battle.  Having stress (adrenaline) never killed them, but it prepared the body for fight or flight.  You're having the same stress feelings they had which has turned in anxiety - neither of these will harm you.

Anxiety might come back for a number of reasons.  Change of meds brand is one.  Many people notice an increase in anxiety when their brand is different - check yours.  Increasing meds causes anxiety to be heightened and yes it can last 7 weeks ..... especially if you're 'fighting' it.

This is why I stress about learning about anxiety, understanding about it and how to help yourself because that skill will never, ever leave you and one that you can always fall back on.

I used to say life was unfair too, and felt robbed of 16 years of my life.  I was one angry person.  But strangely having gone all through that and out the other side I feel somewhat grateful for the experience now because its as if a light was switched on as I learnt more and more about anxiety.  Its now not the monster it once seemed ......... and life is more than sweet now.

You will get better xx

The thing I struggle with is I don’t remember my symptoms being this bad at this stage when I first went on medication..  I feel at week 6/7 I was not struggling this bad.

My doctor did give me Xanax.  I don’t like to take it unless I feel I have no other option though (as in everyday I feel bad).  I have had to take one last Friday though bc my anxiety felt so bad I couldn’t go to work.

Hi katecogs.  Again - thank you so much for your long response.  I truly appreciate it and feel it's really helped me

I feel a lot calmer now (not completely without my worry, but much better than earlier in the day). 

I'm glad that so far my nights have been consistently calm and have allowed me to get much needed sleep/rest.

I know I should not search for things online - sometimes it's almost like a compulsion.  Like my brain is daring me to see "just how bad it could be".  And then I fall for it and get trapped again. 

It's very comforting hearing you describe how your anxiety caused you to keep having new fears/thoughts.  That's where I feel I'm at right now - I have almost a new obsession/phobia every week.  It's very tiring.  I watched/listened to the videos you mentioned and I do believe they helped a lot to calm me down and re-think how I view my thoughts.  So, thank you for pointing those out!  I'm going to try and keep practicing that I can't control my thoughts and to just let them be.

I will keep referring to your response when I feel my fear creeping back up again about the stress.  Sometimes seeing that stuff on the web sticks with me for a while unfortunately

Thank you again for the encouraging and kind response!  Are you by chance a therapist or studied therapy?  You are very good with words and talking with people  

I really hope I can reach the point you've gotten to someday.

Hi ac

That's exactly how it was with me - I felt almost compelled to scare myself to see how bad it was, and yes my obsessional thoughts grew, which each new one worse than the previous one.  Old thoughts died away and didn't bother me as the new ones took over.  But it doesn't matter what thoughts you have or what you're afraid of, its the fear they produce that is the problem.  I was once taken through an exercise of 'flooding' where you think of your thought or problem, feel the intense anxiety and just keep thinking of it whilst that feeling floods through your body, keeping it there ......... and it will die away.  This is a similar technique to what Katie d'Ath talks of in her video too ......... when we have the intense anxiety we all run away from it, but if you stayed put and let it wash over you, letting it do its worst, then it will peak and die away.  Keep doing this exercise a few times during the day and after some days that particular thought or fear will start to no longer be so scary.  You have subjected yourself to the anxiety and passed through it without running away.  Anxiety will always peak and it will also die away.  It can only go to a certain level, never beyond - it just can't.  When it reaches its peak then it will come down - always.

When you feel compelled to search, just don't.  You know what's out there so why bother reading reports that will frighten you.  It just sets back your recovery each time.  If you feel the need to look, then only read good stories, those that will help.  But personally, I'd stay away from the internet (though stay on this site of course) 

Paul David has a great piece in his book about anxiety sufferers wearing a backpack.  When we become ill we put this imaginary backpack on and go around searching for answers and cures and each one get put into the backpack.  It might be useful, you never know.  Over the months and years we continue to put stories, memories, tips and tricks into the backpack which starts to become heavy ..... yet we still drag it around, making us tired.  Occasionally we'll look into it and wonder which tip, saying, story we should look at, but its confusing because its full of so many and it makes our heads hurt, makes us confused and even more anxious and of course, it makes us very, very tired.  He says throw off that backpack and throw away all those tips, tricks, stories etc etc and just have one, theory and one method only.  Yes he does say his method, but he's a genuine guy and not out to make money, but he just wants to help people because he's been there himself.  But whatever method you choose, stick with that one only.

No I'm not a therapist and have never studied it either (think I just like to talk - well my friends tell me I do anyway)  ...... I've thought about it often, even volunteering, but its too much to take on now and I'm not keen to start up a new career.  I just find the anxiety subject fascinating.  I teach dance (in my spare time) and even there I just think in 'boxes' and explain things in detail  

I never thought I'd ever be where I am today - it seemed it only ever happened for other people, not me.  But everyone can recover from anxiety, and once you're out of it you'll have a completely different outlook on the whole thing.

K x

I had various therapies, but it really didn't help me personally because all this happened back in the 1980's when I was first ill, and people just didn't talk about this then, so it felt really embarrassing, emotional and terrifying.  I kept it to myself all those years and I just read lots of books (internet wasn't around then) , and one book just made so much sense to me.  I asked about this with my therapist, but they poo-pooed it as they had their own methods to follow at the time.  Methods have moved on so much more these days and I notice that the one I believed in (and still do today) is now one that seems to be growing.  I took medication too.

My son became ill 4 years ago with the same thing and again I read more, and along with medical help, medication and family help he recovered too which took around 9 months.

 

Hi katecogs,

I feel a little better today.  I’m not as worried about the stress anymore today, but I still have my same fears over my heart.  Hate how the anxiety just moves to something else.

I went in to see my doctor to discuss how I was feeling and she suggested to either up the dose to 40mg or switch to a new antidepressant.  I know it’ll freak me out to be on the highest dose, so we decided to try out Sertraline 50mg.

I’m still scared to try that though - so I might wait till the weekend and see how that goes.  Afraid of bad side effects.

Why would you want to change antidepressants ..just stick with one .. your going to go thru hell again with new antidepressant.your not going to feel any better quicker on the contrary your going to have withdrawals from celexa and start up effects from sertraline..duhhh

I spoke with my Doctor and she said that I should feel much better by now if the drug would properly work for me.  She said by 5-7 weeks that every week should be better not worse.

I haven’t fully made my mind up yet whether I will switch over to the Sertraline.  

My doctor has also seen/known me since I was a baby.. so she’s not just a random doctor I went to.

Well according to thousands of m

Well according to thousands of members on all forums it does take about three months to feel some benefits..I didn't feel anything at all for about 4months..and as many times I wanted to up my dosage ..my phychiatrist kept telling me no..so I recovered on 10milligrams

I am struggling with what to do.  I will keep thinking about it.  For now, I will stay on the Citalopram 30mg and see how I feel by the weekend.

Your fears won't go away overnight, but as you recover the anxiety calms a little and you feel very slightly better ...... but those fears will be there and will disappear as you further improve.  You have to just let those fears be there in the background for now, work with what you've got, and know those fears WILL go away as the anxiety goes.

Upping your dose won't stop the fears and anxiety - you still have to go through setbacks and the long wait.  You can recover on the dose you're on.  A bigger dose does not mean you'll recover quicker, and in fact you'll go through side effects again with each increase.  Everyone suits different doses yes, but you have to give each dose lots of time to settle which your body is still doing now.  Feeling a little calmer now means something is happening.

Being afraid of side effects, of your thoughts, and scared of things isn't helpful.  You will have to go through these uncomfortable feelings in order to recover, so fearing them adds anxiety onto the anxiety you already have.  Fighting this isn't the way, but giving in and letting anxiety do its worst whilst you remain calm is the way.

 xx

 

That's why I always say have patience..I let patience get the best of me..and patience won...thanks kate

Yes sadly patience is the last thing we have when we've got anxiety - but its what's needed.  Its cruel isn't it, when we want to be well right now and not suffer with one more minute of it   That old proverbial phrase 'patience is a virtue' is true ......

Hi katecogs.  The calm didn’t last all that long, unfortunately my fear moved to a new target.  Now I’m worried/on the lookout for potential chest pains.  I know somewhere in my head that if I experience anything sort of “funny” it is most likely my anxiety almost creating a symptom because of how much I’m thinking about it.

It’s still early morning and I’m the most irrational/anxious in the morning.  Evenings are truly the only time I feel better and each day I’m eager to get to them.

I’m still undecided on whether I will start the Sertraline on Friday night.  I do feel like I’ve gotten almost worse these past 2 weeks than better.  I recovered much more smoothly and a lot quicker 5 years ago when I went on 20mg.  It might just be the case that Citalopram doesn’t work for me anymore...

Everyday feels like a struggle.

Oh it's working..more than likely always the second time around or third the medicine takes longer to work..

How can you tell?  I feel like I was actually better/more positive 2-3 weeks ago.  I feel like every week there’s some new obsession/worry with my heart.  Isn’t it possible that some medications just stop working positively?  

That's right - that calmness come and go.  You need to treat all new fears as 'just anxiety playing its tricks on you' ........ Group them together, know they'll come and go and let them too (just don't fight them) ......... 

You know having those calm evenings is recovery.  When I recovered I'd wake every day with dreadful anxiety and by the evening I'd feel calmer.  This is the beginning.  Over time those calm evenings got stronger and began to happen earlier and earlier in my day ..... afternoon, midday, morning etc.  This took about 3 months from when it began to start.  Understand that for now you WILL wake every day with anxiety, and with that still present at the moment you will get fears and irrational thoughts.  But ....... if you're having calm evenings (and that might be only slightly calm) then things are beginning to work for you.  At the moment you have to put up with having anxiety in the morning and those fears ............ but if you're having calmer evenings then slowly that anxiety and those fears will gradually ease.  It won't be overnight or next week, but over the weeks and months that should ease and the calm feeling will grow.

Changing your meds now - just as you're beginning to improve (however small) - will set you right back to the beginning.

No medicine will make you better in a matter of weeks.

I've seen so many people who chase recovery - hopping from dose to dose, meds to meds and all they do is get side effects from each increase, withdrawal from changing and more side effects when they start over again.  This delays recovery.

You can't hurry recovery.  You have to be patient.  Whilst you wait you have to have anxiety and thoughts and fear.  You can't stop them.  But, knowing you'll have them (for now) and being patient will help you recover.  

Its your reaction to anxiety and fears that is key.  If you tense and recoil from them (fight them) it makes things worse.  If you relax and let them be there (for now) then it will help towards recovery.

Throughout recovery most people also get setbacks (when the anxiety returns).  That's normal and seems part of recovery.  When this happens, again its best to relax and let it be there.  It will go.  Over time (months) you will feel better and better.

It took me 6 months to recover and through that time I woke every day with anxiety, had thoughts and fears and I had setbacks .......... yet every night (apart from the setback time) I was calm.  This grew until my mornings were calm.  Around 6 months I then started waking with no anxiety.  That's often how it works.  Some people have a different experience.

Remember - with setbacks comes anxiety and all its associated side effect i.e. thoughts, negative thinking, racing mind, fears, obsessions and compulsions.  It just likes to raise its ugly head from time to time to say hi I haven't gone yet.  Relax, let it all happen, don't fight it or question it or analyse each symptom.  It will go if you stop all that.  By over analysing it you just keep the anxiety alive.  You fall into the trap of getting sucked into the anxiety cycle again.

Hope that makes sense as know I've rambled a bit 

K xx

That's exactly how I recovered katecogs..as judge Judy would say open your listening ears people...

Hi katecogs.  Yes, that makes sense.  I guess I’m just frustrated and worried because when I first went on the medication I don’t remember feeling this bad.  My recovery came pretty quickly. 

Now I don’t know if I’m going backwards or forwards or what which is why I saw my doctor.  

I spoke with my parents last night on how I wasn’t sure if I should switch to the new medication Friday night and they got angry with me because they tell me I keep flip-flopping my ideas on what to do on them.  They say I should trust my doctor and switch over.  I try and tell them that I’ve read it could take me some more weeks to feel better, but they say I shouldn’t listen to people online.  I think they are also frustrated because I’m taking longer to improve from the last time this happened.

Idk, would you say if I really don’t feel better in a couple weeks or massively go down, I should switch?  

I forgot to mention that about a week and a half ago, I did switch to taking the 30mg all at once at night.  Previously I had been taking 10mg in the morning and 20mg at night (this was due to bad insomnia when first increasing).  

Do you believe that has played a role in affecting me?  I didn’t think it had, but now I’m not so sure..

Big possibility..why would you come off the medicine when you know you need it????

I've been on these meds twice and the second time it took longer and I had a different experience to the first time, so yes, what you're experiencing is completely normal.  My first time was 6 months and the second about 8 months.

You should never put a timescale on your own recovery - it could be a few weeks time you'll feel some difference, but I doubt you'll be completely better in a few weeks.  Giving yourself a timescale will make you stressed and frustrated.

I'm not a doctor and only go on experience on these meds and of anxiety.  Nobody knows how this feels at all unless they've suffered with it ...... not even a doctor, unless they've actually been through it too.  Those that haven't had this often put pressure on people to get better, pull your socks up, get over it, hurry up ......... when what they need to do is give the sufferer as much time as they need.

Increasing medication will almost definitely give you side effects again - it increases anxiety which then increases your fears etc.  Though you were already taking 30mg split into 10mg and 20mg, changing it to taking it all in one go at night may have made a difference.  It affects people in different ways.

Trouble is when anxiety strikes you automatically go into the defence mode and fight it, and I can't stress enough how wrong that is.  You become anxious about the anxiety, the anxiety will 100% cause those fears you have about your heart, that fear then increases your anxiety and you begin this constant circle.  You are adding fuel to the fire, keeping it constantly burning.  In order to recover (which you can do on meds alone) but it helps if you start learning how to break this circle by not stressing about the side effects (fear), allowing it to be there, letting those feelings be there, and this will start to calm the anxiety.  Its not easy I know, and it won't happen overnight.

Another way to look at it is anxiety starts, anxiety causes side effects i.e. your fears, you worry about your fears and all the side effects.  Its like having a cold, its side effects are a runny nose, sore throat and headache so you worry about those side effects.  Why, because they are just part of the cold.  Its the cold that needs to heal and when it does the runny nose, sore throat and headache will go too.  Its the same with anxiety - why worry about its side effects when its the anxiety thats the cause, and when thats gone so too will its side effects (fears).  Hope that makes sense 

I'm not a doctor so can't advise what meds you take or how long you should stay on the current ones, but can only give you my honest experience of them, the timescale it usually takes and how to not fight it.

Personally if it was me I would wait a good 2 months on the same dose.  But its really entirely up to you. Why not take another look at that book link I sent you - maybe you could share it with your parents to all read together?

My son suffered with this too - it took him 9 months to recover on the meds and I talked to him daily.

K x

It creeps up slowly doesn't it - I didn't know I was recovering for ages, just that I felt ok at times and not others, but began wonder as the pattern became more frequent.  I had nobody to tell me otherwise this was normal.

Hi katecogs,

I hope you don’t mind that I’m almost messaging back to you everyday with my fears/worries.  It’s very helpful and reassuring for me to speak with someone who understands these things.

Surprisingly, I will say that yesterday I felt more calm/had more calm moments throughout the day.  I’m hoping this is a sign that I should stay on the Citalopram and give it more time.

Don’t worry - I really appreciate your long responses, so “ramble” as much as you’d like!

I’m trying to practice letting the thoughts happen and not tense from them, but it can be very hard, especially at this point when I still believe in the fears/irrational thoughts that I’m having.  It feels almost if I don’t pay attention to them - the thing I fear most will happen.  This thought also plays with my OCD (which always comes out when my anxiety is bad).

Another new fear/thought to obsess about has popped up in my head - I keep thinking maybe I do have some underlying heart condition.  Even though I’ve had 2 EKGs and a chest x-ray (my heart is not enlarged), I still feel like I need more to make sure nothing was missed.  My fear is whatever issue I might have was not tested properly or the right tests weren’t used to find it

Another thing I’ve never liked (even when I was normal) was reading that Citalopram can’t be at a higher dose than 40mg or it causes heart problems.  Luckily, I reassure myself that I’m only on 30mg, so I’m ok.  But then I read that Citalopram shouldn’t be used if you do have a heart problem - and for some reason in my head today I’m convinced that that’s me and I have a heart problem so I shouldn’t be on Citalopram because it might cause my greatest fear to happen.

I try and chase away that thought with the fact that I’ve been on Citalopram for 5 years now and I’ve never had any issue with it.

Sometimes I just have this feeling that I’m waiting and waiting and waiting for that heart attack to just happen and sometimes I’m almost surprised that it hasn’t happened yet and that I’m still here...

Sorry for rambling - I’d like to blame these long posts on the fact that I am writing to you during my morning anxiety phase.

Very slowly ..not even noticeable at times..till.this day I still.notice little improvements..I too had that heart issue ac. Is having .I also end it up.at the emergency.twice.everything normal with my heart..I also thought the same as far as taking higher milligrams because of heart...but guess what is all anxiety playing tricks on us..most definitely the most bizzarre illness...😷

Ugh, it’s so tough.  Everyone always asks me why is it that the heart stuff scares me and I don’t really know myself.  All I know is that it’s my greatest fear when my anxiety is out of control.  

How many weeks/months are you at lois?  Sorry if you have mentioned this before.

20months on 10milligrams...and counting. .and recovered...

Hi ac

Absolutely don't mind in the least you posting / messaging me back at all.  The forum is what its for - to help each other xx.

Ah ha - I do believe that the meds are kicking in if you're having those calm moments.  That's how it often starts, calm moments, sometimes brief glimpses.  But its started.  Yes I think you should definitely give these much more time because I think those calm moments will start to grow.  Remember though, don't be surprised if you feel really bad which might last a few days or a week with no calm times because this will be a setback which is perfectly normal.  It seems recovery starts and then has these little splutters (anxiety returning) before the calmness comes back.  Thought I'd mention that because don't be alarmed and think you're ill again - its just how recovery often works.

Letting the thoughts be there and relaxing is incredibly hard - and again don't beat yourself up if you fail.  You're not meant to be able to do it perfectly, and those thoughts will fight back at you and you will feel tense at times.  Expect failure, and then practice again.  It gets easier.

Yes you will develop new fears / obsessions - when you have anxiety its as if your mind goes on the prowl to search out the scariest of things, almost as if you want to test yourself.  I remember I'd sometimes pick up on something someone had said, or something on the TV and my mind sort of went 'hello, I hadn't thought of THAT, that's a bit alarming so I think I'll stick around a bit'.  Each of my new fears seemed larger than the previous ones ...... but they were all the same intensity really.

Just let that thought be there - let it scare you, let it do its worst ........ and in the meantime relax your body towards it.  The fear can't hurt you and it will only ever reach a certain peak before it fades away again.  Practice relaxing the body whilst you move around too, not just whilst sitting.  Take the stress out of your daily life, slow down and don't rush anywhere.  

You've been tested medically and you know you're fit and healthy - its just the anxiety that says otherwise.  Anxiety will fox you and that little negative voice will sit on your shoulder and tell you the medics were wrong, they missed something etc etc ........ well let it, that negative voice can shout all it likes but you know deep down its wrong and that you're fine.  As you get better that negative voice will die down and go away, but for now let it shout.  Its almost like a naughty child that keeps running back in the room to shout just to let you know its still there and has something to say   So treat it like a naughty child, ignore it (even though it shouts at you) and it'll get fed up and go out the room again.

Yes thats true re the maximum dose of Citalopram is 40mg - anything higher could ........ and that is 'could' have an effect on the heart valve.  And that doesn't mean 41mg, it means much higher, so 40mg is a good safe dose.  You are not at risk and neither is anyone else.  All medicines have side effects - even Paracetamol, and they all have risks if the dose is exceeded.  Even Vitamins.  Citalopram wouldn't be on sale if it was deemed unsafe.

You could wait for years and years for a heart attack to happen ...... and it would never happen anyway ........  My father had angina and my mother took heart pills too ........... both lived until they were 92 and passed with entirely different issues and never had a heart attack.

I think we should both join the Ramblers Club - though thats for walking not talking lol 

Yes even after I'd recovered at 6 months I still continued to improve after that - I reckon a good year afterwards it just got better and better all the time.  I even cried at being better 

Nobody realises just how power anxiety feels - not until it hits them.  Stress causes it with results in anxiety (each person with their own stress).  I watch people rushing about their lives, driving past me yelling at drivers in their way, honking horns, people rushing to grab lunch, with their laptops on the train in the morning .... working, working, working ............. and I just think you stupid people, don't you know what could be around the corner for you.  But sadly nobody knows what the outcome will be, and nor did I.

Anxiety certainly has a lot to answer for.

Excellent, excellent post K👍😉

Hi katecogs,

Thanks!  I’m glad I won’t be bothering you then (although I’ll still probably feel that way).  I think it’s awesome that though you’ve recovered you still stick around here to help people.

The thoughts of “waiting for something to happen” - in my case, the heart attack, that’s normal with anxiety, right?  I had a friend who recently went through some anxiety issues and she would describe to me that she kept feeling anxious and that she was waiting for something to happen.

It’s a little dreary today which kinda puts my mood down.  I can tell I’m going to be more “keyed in” to any sensations to my body today unfortunately as well. 

I guess I’m just confused as to why I had a relapse - for years I felt I had recovered/felt normal and then a couple months ago at the end of January I started have panic attacks again. 

The phychosomatic symptoms your going thru will diminish. Trust us just hang on...

Thanks lois.  I actually sent a message to my doctor and she agreed we should see how I am in 2 weeks and wait for switching.  So hopefully this is a good plan.

Today was actually a lot like yesterday in that I felt more calm throughout the day.  Mornings are still bad, but that’s ok if my days are apparently getting better.

I’m still a little funny on the Citalopram QT effects on the heart and stuff.  Got a refill in from the mail today and looked through the warnings and unfortunately read that part which always sets me off.  That does only apply for a dosage higher than 40mg?  Because I don’t think the information specified if the dosage mattered... but I’m pretty sure it is for doses higher than 40mg.

Trying to remain calm and remind myself that I’m only on 30mg and I’ve been on this medication for 5 years and I’m fine.  Not to mention that I’ve had 2 EKGs recently and my readings were completely normal and there weren’t any irregular QT readings.  Ahh anxiety - the specific fears have been a little all over the place today.

Hey lois.  I guess I felt it wasn’t working for me anymore, but I have given this more thought and I’m gonna try and stick with the 30mg Citalopram and give it more time.  I wasn’t gonna switch off medication completely since I know I need it - just switch to a different antidepressant.  

You know all ssris have heart warning of somekind...so it's best to stick to your celexa..it will work just have patience...ask your doctor for a benzo .that will relieve any added anxiety's of any type. .

Hi ac!

?I do think switching to 30 mg all at once at night could have an increase in your anxiety.

?I personally would give the Citalopram another few weeks, and then try another antidepressant. They can eventually quit being effective for many people. You just have to try another one. Like you, I've been on Citalopram for five years with great results, but have now been having lots of anxiety. I may end up switching to another one if things don't improve soon. I've read the generic of Lexapro is very similar to Citalopram:-).

Hi lois.  Where did you read that?  My doctor did give me a benzo - Xanax, which I have taken a couple times.  I only resort to using it when I feel I really need to.  Don’t want to get addicted to it.

My phychiatrist told me that all antidepressants have a warning that may cause any type of for example low sodium diabetes high blood pressure heart conditions suicide mania hallucinations and the list is long GGG.all medications come with pros and cons.but they are safe if they weren't 40million people wouldn't be taking them....

All ant depressants come with warnings...I can say no more..wether is heart sodium diabetes high or low blood pressure..is all there in the leaflets..

But there safe other wise they wouldn't give them to the 40million people on ssris..

Ah, ok.  Wasn’t sure if you were referring to something specific.

Hi kelly.  Yeah, that’s what my mom was thinking - I ended up taking the 30mg all at once around 2 weeks ago which looking back is when I felt I almost went backwards.  Hopefully that’s a sign.

Yeah, I’m going to see how it goes for a couple weeks and then maybe switch if I still am not improving.  I guess my worry is I’ll feel better but then have the anxiety come back at a later time again

Aww thanks manny xx 

No not at all  

I recovered eons ago and only came on this site when my son became ill 4 years ago ...... and though he's recovered I'm still here chatting 

It always feels like we wait for something to happen - its that fight or flight.  Your body goes into defence as it thinks there's danger, so it goes on the defence ........ yet there's nothing to defend against, so it always feels like we're waiting for something to happen.

Also its that anticipatory anxiety about your heart that keeps the anxiety going.  Same for someone who fears going out somewhere - they get anxious about the situation before its happened.  I did too - I'd get worked about something and yet when I was in that situation it wasn't as bad as my brain made it out to be.

Your days will be full of ups and downs - one day you might feel hope, the next day full of anxiety and maybe the next one flat and dreary.  All sorts of things affect us - even the weather can add to that gloom.  Just take each day as it comes - your body is responding to the meds and for the time being its going to be all over the place.  It'll settle down.

Having relapse after years feeling well on meds could be a number of things.  Anxiety usually stems from stress so maybe something stressful happened in your life or it was building up, and that little bit of anxiety that may be appeared your body will 'remember' it and will naturally behave the way it did years before.  This is why I stress so much about reading that book as it'll help you understand anxiety and shows you how to deal with it (with or without meds).  This will never fail you.

Another reason it could have appeared is maybe your brand of medicine had changed.  Some people find this happens and though the active ingredients are the same, the inactive ingredients (the outer shell) can differ, so maybe some people are more sensitive?  Again though, as soon as anxiety appears you will start behaving towards it as you've done before - its a habit.

We can't go through life without anxiety, though of course 'normal' anxiety is completely different to the anxiety we feel.  But if you respond to any of those feelings as you once did you can quickly find yourself being sucked back into that cycle.  Reading that book will help stop that.

But I do wonder if your brand of meds have changed .......

Hi katecogs, nice to speak with you again.

I think many people really benefit from your knowledge and advice here, so thank you for continuing to offer support!  I’m sorry your son had to go through this.

I definitely have anticipatory anxiety when it comes to my heart - it’s probably the first thing I think of when I wake up.  It’s hard not to get over that fear though.

Yes, yesterday was a pretty gloomy day here.  It’s the middle of April but we’re still getting wintery weather.  Yesterday was cold & icy sleet with nasty winds.  I was a bit more down yesterday.  Today we’ve had light snow, but it doesn’t appear as gloomy.  I feel a bit better today.

Nothing major happened in my life recently which is why my family is so confused it “came back”.  In the past 5 years I went back to school, finished school and got my first career job.  All during the time if I was ever stressed I dealt with it like everyone does.  I did not feel panicked.  The only thing I can think of was I was a little worried about something at work happening - I remember I woke up with a panic attack from sleep and I was able to calm down and go back to bed.  But, I feel like ever since then I couldn’t mentally recover and I was just downhill for a month until I went back to my doctor for the increase.  I guess my body had forgotten how horrible the panic attacks were and didn’t remember how to cope?  I had also never gone into therapy to learn how to deal with my anxiety outside of medication - so I’m hoping that I’ve started therapy now that will help.

I just don’t want to “recover” again and then experience another major relapse again a couple years down

I’m not sure if my brand of meds have changed..  Over the years I’ve gotten my medication from what I assume were different manufacturers since it would be the same dose but sometimes the pill would be a circle and other times an oval, etc.  That had never affected me before if that’s what was happening there...

Unfortunately, I’m still a little paranoid about the whole heart issue with Citalopram.  I just get mad that of course the one medication I’m on has a specific warning for the thing I fear most.  I know logically that it’s referring to a higher dose than 40mg (I believe people used to be on 60mg).  But then when I try to reassure myself that I’m only on 30mg I have a voice in my head that says “oh and people with heart problems shouldn’t be on this medication either”.  And with my irrational fear, I always am thinking maybe I do have undiscovered heart issues - so, you can see how my thoughts get all tangled.

Recently, my OCD has gotten a little worse - like I have to do certain “tasks” in order to avoid my worst fear.  I know it’s illogical, but I can’t help but do them anyways.

I also meant to mention - sorry for all the rambling!  Sometimes this place feels like my therapy.

That's how I recovered ..with this forum..I thank God every day for this forum and katecogs....

I didn’t have this forum last time, but I feel like this time my recovery period is worse so I definitely feel like I need it.

I was so scared and terrified by doctor Google that I had a hard time joining any forum. Most of them are so negative full of trolls...but IAM very grateful for this forum...

It might make you feel better to know that I'm on a higher does than you (40 mg), and found out on Monday that I have an irregular heart beat (I'm now on meds to regulate it). Needless to say, I've done a bunch of reading online today about citalopram and heart conditions.

?From what I've found, in 2011 and 2012 is when the warnings came out. However, more recent findings (2016) have show no link between Citalopram (even in doses above 40mg) and heart issues. If you look it up, just be sure to be reading the more current information:-).

?That being said, I'm still considering switching to something else at a lower dose....I figure since I'm already having anxiety, it can't get much worse if I switch now!

I know how you feel.  Sometimes going on forums can be both helpful and not helpful because you read something positive but then something very scary.

Oh, I’m sorry to hear that kelly!  If you don’t mind me asking, did they do an EKG for that?  And were you able to physically feel the difference of the irregular beats?

Yeah, I remember I found out about the Citalopram 40mg+ warning after I had already gotten my anxiety under control a couple years ago.  I remember that it did worry me for about a day (not panic, just a little worry) and then I felt fine because I was only on 20mg and I had read that the findings were kinda all over the place and nothing was really for certain.  

Did you tell your doctor that you’re on Citalopram?  I’m sure now that they know you’ve got an irregular heart beat they would let you know if you should continue with the Citalopram or switch, right?

I couldn't/can't feel the irregular beats at all. I was quite surprised to learn I even had an irregular heart beat. I had gone into the doctor because I was having a sudden increase in anxiety, and I had thought I would get a different prescription for an antidepressant;-).  The doctor picked up the irregular heart beat right away on her stethoscope. I think they can also tell on the blood pressure cuffs; at least, the one I'm borrowing from my parents has a little icon on it that comes up when your heart beat is irregular. I do think I'm a bit of an anomaly; I've found out my Dad has the exact same thing (even on the same meds), and he can always feel when his is irregular. They did to an EKG :-).

?My doctor does know I'm on citalopram. All I really asked her about it was if I could take it with the meds I was prescribed for my heart, and she said I could. Truthfully I was so surprised over the irregular heart beat that I didn't even think about the high dosage of citalopram until several days later.

Hey kelly.  Oh, interesting - I didn’t realize they could tell right away from just hearing the heartbeat - but I guess that makes sense.  I also didn’t realize those at-home blood pressure machines could let you know too (my mom has one).  Thanks for sharing with me

Sounds like the irregular heartbeat wasn’t due to the Citalopram and your doctor doesn’t believe it harmful if you continue. 

Did you end up discussing going on another antidepressant?  My doctor wants to see how the next 2 weeks go for me in regards to possibly switching to Sertraline.

I took Citalopram for 16 years ........ and never had a murmur, a twinge or a flutter (despite both my parents having heart problems).

As Lois says, they wouldn't be on the market if they were dangerous.

K xx

I ended up having to go back in to the doctor due to getting no sleep last night, which I believe was due to the Metoprolol I was on for my heart (insomnia is a common side effect). My heart beat was fine (regular), my blood pressure was fine, so the doctor said I could wean off the Metoprolol. She believes my irregular heartbeat was due to anxiety. I tend to agree, given that it felt just like anxiety to me.

?We also discussed switching to a different antidepressant, since my anxiety has been so bad this last week. I am switching to the generic of Lexapro, starting tomorrow. I'm starting on a smaller dose (10mg). I do think the 40 mg of Citalopram I've been on the last 5 years is too high.

Hey katecogs,

Thanks, I’ll try and remember that.  So, I was having a relatively ok day and then I remembered this story that my friend had heard but she didn’t initially tell me because I told her it would probably freak me out.

Well, I was stupid and asked her to tell me today and wow I really wish she had never even mentioned it (it’s my fault too though).  It was about this girl who was around my age (so young) and she ended up dying from a heart attack.  At least I think she died from that because my friend said it was related to my phobia (heart problems/heart attack).  So that’s really freaking me out and I asked too if it was due to an underlying condition or something like that.  All my friend could say was that she wasn’t overweight and she doesn’t believe there was an underlying condition.  She said she had a lot of stress in her life - she had a baby, full time student, full time job, maintained a house by herself, etc.  I don’t know if there’s more to that like if she did drugs or smoked or what but I’m really freaking out (

I don’t have a baby or all those responsibilities but I still have anxiety and stress and I just don’t want to die

Anxiety can't kill you..but broken heart syndrome can..takatsubo cardiomyopathy can.....

I would bet the girl who died had to have some sort of underlying condition. Or, if it was something like drugs, her family had probably kept that aspect of it quiet.

It was probably broken heart syndrome..single mother lots of responsibility job etc...

Now if your friend had told you that same story when you hadn't got anxiety, it wouldn't have bothered you.  Its the anxiety you already have that makes you susceptible to over thinking, over feeling and over worrying and because you already have anxiety you'll pick up on other anxieties very easily.  Its like having a broken leg and you keep hitting it with a stick ...... why would you?  Let it heal without further hampering it.  Don't read stories online, don't ask friends for scaremonger stories like this that you know will make you worse ......... leave those for when you're better because you'll react differently.

You know these stories will affect you, so don't go looking.

But ....... if you want to listen and add more anxiety and worry onto the anxiety and worry you already have, then read that book I suggested, learn to relax, learn to let it wash over you, learn to let it pass over you.  That way will see you through it.  They are only thoughts that have been created in your mind and are totally untrue.  Anxiety will trick you and you're falling for it.

As said, anxiety can't kill you.  That's it.  You have to have an underlying condition which you haven't got that.  You could just as easily die from a brain haemorrhage, liver failure or get run over by a bus tomorrow.  

So this girl died from a heart attack.  She'd just had a baby - thats a huge undertaking for your body to have gone through, so maybe it was related to that.  Maybe she had a heart problem already or maybe she had a very unhealthy diet or it was drug related.  All these are maybe's and if's ......... and your worries about your heart are also maybe's and if's.  

So lets think of the worst case scenario and say you DID have a heart attack.  Do you know that 1.35 million people have survived a heart attack in the UK - so your chances are good.  

So for now you will continue to have those fears every day until the meds start to kick in, and you'll probably have those fears throughout recovery but which will ease in time.  But for now stop 'beating your broken leg with that stick' because its just adding more harm to it.  Let it heal.

My friend said she didn’t believe she did.  She did say that she smoked before she had the baby but wasn’t sure if she did so after having the baby.  I asked if she did drugs, but she didn’t know.  She said since she was a mother she probably wouldn’t have broadcasted that..

I’ve never heard of that/knew you could actually die from a “broken heart”..

Hi katecogs.  I know, I know.  I do this to myself . I even knew before I asked my friend about more details about the story that it wasn’t going to be good, but it was like I HAD to know to get over it or something. 

I guess the thing that gets me is she was literally my age (25) so that scared me and I asked my friend if she survived and she didn’t.  To me, that sounds like more than stress to do you in.  I really feel like she must have been on drugs or had done them before.

I told my friend if it had been a brain tumor it really wouldn’t have bothered me that much - but because heart is my phobia it does.  

I will say that that story did scare me, but I do almost feel like the medication is working more - I’m concerned but I also feel a little more rational about it..  (still not over it though lol).

I guess I just don’t know how much “stress” is considered too much?  I asked my doctor and she said I had acute stress and that I was fine and that helped me for almost a week, but now it’s like I don’t believe her.  Ugh.

My husband's mother had a heart attack from broken heart syndrome..she lived but was put on thorazine for he condition...

That broken heart syndrome sounds scary too.  Is the main cause of that grief?  

Well, I’m going to call it a night and hopefully get some good sleep.  Thank you to everyone for your responses- I really do appreciate them.

I’m still worried, but hopefully there was more to that story than just stress being the main cause.

Oh, I read that the possible cause is too much adrenaline?  Which makes me worried because adrenaline is what happens during a panic attack and there’s always lots of adrenaline during those :-/.  Everyone has always told me though adrenaline during a panic attack is just uncomfortable, not dangerous and that the fight or flight symptoms are actually your body’s way of protecting you..

I was exactly the same though - I felt compelled to scare myself with my fears, almost like you need to test to see if its still there.  That is good in some ways to face those feelings, because avoiding them is running away. One treatment is I believe called Flooding - where you think of your fear or go to the place you fear, feel the feeling, relax and remain in that place or with the thought and let that feeling flood over you ...... remain there until it starts to subside.  Nothing will happen to you though it will feel very uncomfortable.

You cannot die from a panic attack.

Even though you know the truth, your body thinks otherwise.  That is common to be like that.  Knowing the truth won't stop those feelings or doubts, but you know because you've been told by a doctor, had tests and heard from others too.  So your fears are just thoughts, just the same as anyone other sufferer who has their own personal fearsome thoughts.  All frightening thoughts are the same, regardless of what they are about.  They're a side effect.

Read that website link (related to the book) about thoughts.  It explains about them and how to deal with them.  You have to remember though that you will not get rid of your thoughts overnight and you have to work with them there, so it will be uncomfortable.  One day of practicing won't eliminate them but days, weeks and months of practice will.

Another part of this anxiety condition is negative thinking - which is what you're doing.  An anxious body produces anxious thoughts.  All those 'what ifs' amount to nothing.  Again that website and book talks about this and shows you how to overcome this.

I spent 16 years fighting this and where did it get me?  Nowhere.  So it stands to reason to change the approach and let it be there, work with it there, stop the negative thinking (the book and website show you how).  

You are constantly talking yourself into more fear, which adds to the fear you have.  You are feeding the fear yourself which is keeping you ill.

 

Hi katecogs what is the link please and which book is it thank you x

No, I don't think adrenalin would be a cause. Otherwise, military personnel, ER staff, and other people in high adrenalin situations would be having heart attacks all the time.

That’s what I’m trying to rationally say to myself.  To me it just doesn’t make sense that that could happen to someone without more underlying reasons.

But it does ..your not the only person suffering with those symptoms..there are I'm sure hundreds of thousands world wide with your symptoms due to anxiety ..

Sorry, what were you referring to?

What I meant to say was the heart issues thing your going thru because of anxiety..there are hundreds of thousands including me that suffered from that heart anxiety drama...but for me thankfully went away with celexa..sometimes we think we are the only ones with those symptoms..but where not alone...

Ah, ok.  I thought you were talking about that, but wasn’t sure . Yeah, it’s hard, but it’s somewhat reassuring to know that other people have had these same fears.

Hi Maria

I'll send via private message as can't post links here. xx