Freezing/Frozen

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Can anyone tell me how you know when you are nearly out of the freezing stage or even already frozen?

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  • Posted

    Thanks everyone
  • Posted

    I've been kind of wondering too when I'll be finally frozen.  Although I have an interesting note to add...  That PART of my capsule seems maybe in the frozen stage--the part I originally noticed was in pain and limited...  So my case started after I'd fell hard and broken a hand bone (and chipped wrist bone) so it was probably "secondary" adhesive capsulitis.  After only a couple weeks of almost non-use of that arm (babying my broken hand), I realized my shoulder/arm wouldn't stretch as far... Didn't think much of it at first thinking it was just residual soreness from fall (and hand pain still overshadowed any shoulder pain.  I also noticed, that while at that point I could still sleep on it, the "position" was kind of "forward" like my shoulder had repositioned from fall.  And if I tried to "tuck shoulder under a bit" (like I normally did naturally when sleeping on side) it would hurt.  That sleeping pain increased until I no longer COULD sleep at all on that side.  If I fell asleep on it in exhaustion the pain would literally wake me up from a dead sleep.

       Anyway... It was a month before I complained to Doctor, who sent my to PT. Then another Doctor said early stage frozen shoulder--at first neither I nor my PT believed him; she thought torn labrum.  But MRI confirmed nothing else wrong.  But I was SO PROACTIVE with my PT, that it progressed very slowly at first as far as loosing motion.  Except that is for back-reach--that is, unfastening bra.  Interesting that was the first place it lost motion--And I think now that "section" of shoulder may be frozen, because it doesn't hurt much anymore (I'm now about 7 months out from first symptoms).  

    But the rest of shoulder still hurts, and has gone through many "changes"--that is to say, pain has ebbed and flowed according to many circumstances.  Interestingly, many here warn against PT.  And mine wasn't overly aggressive--but I went often and did my exercises (including some very creative ones) at home.  Hurt like the dickens especially if I "jumped" to grab something I dropped, but I maintained so much movement that one ortho said I simply didn't have frozen shoulder!  Other orthos confirmed (again) yes I did and that THAT Doctor wasn't a shoulder expert (but rather a hand specialist).

    Next interesting fact, is that about 4 months into it, I went on a 2 week vacation/no PT for 2 weeks.  I don't know if it was from dragging my luggage on rollers with bad arm, or the lack of PT, or just the "timing" for my arm to get worse...  But by the time I came back my arm had lost about (30%?) of it's motion compared to just 2 weeks prior and my PT was heartbroken.  This WONDERFUL PT who at first found it so hard to believe I even had FS because of my great range of motion, now had to say "classic"; that I was now exhibiting all the classic signs and progression.  At that point way more painful, starting to get hard to dress myself.

         Sorry for my "book" here!

    Had to stop PT no more insurance, continued to get even worse... But in absolute desparation I did some radical foam roller stretching (warning: dangerous! Can really injure yourself PT does NOT recommend!)  that kept me where I can at least continue to live on my own (i.e. dress myself).  But I might have torn something else to accomplish that I'm not sure and won't know until FS pain subsides.

       At month 5-6  got first GOOD cortisone injection. If only THIS great ortho had done my FIRST one this whole thing could've been circumvented... Very obviously first 2 didn't make it into capsule--this one was obviously perfect and overnight my pain was 60% improved.  BUT I felt SO good that I overdid weights, etc at health club..."Re-activated" and pain got the worst ever (only 2 weeks after shot).  Finally considerably better after about a month...  But I still can't possibly sleep on bad shoulder and wish FROZEN would come already.  Sometimes I wonder if stopping exercises and just letting it freeze already would hasten this process.  Is it a 'catch 22'?  Stretches keep stretching the adhesions--but irritate at the same time keeping inflamed?  And super gentle stretching just doesn't seem to do much.  Maybe if did over and over like you're supposed to--but I just don't have time for that...

       So here I am month 7.  Backward (bra) motion so frozen it doesn't hurt (simply because it can't move?!?) but rest is still painful.  Long for the night I'll be able to sleep on left shoulder again!

     

    • Posted

      My shoulder problems also started at night couldn't sleep on my stomach. At first they also didn't think it was fs but slowly it got worse ( at first pt really helped and when I stopped for a short time I also had a major loss of motion) anyway after a while pt stopped helping and they finally decided I had fs and needed mua. Two months later I have more range of motion back but no where close to being able to buckle a bra in the back. I can do a ponytail and get dressed myself which I could barely do by myself before cause so painful. Finally I am beginning to sometimes sleep on my stomach for short times. It's a long process and I also sometimes wonder if all my pt is helping me get better quicker then I just would on my own. It seems like pt helps and I hope it does cause I spend like give hours a week there still but some people say you just need to wait your fs out so who really knows

    • Posted

      Valerie, You never ever had a frozen shoulder or a partial frozen shoulder or a calassic frozen shoulder, you had a traumatic synovitis of the shoulder through spraining it followed by  an immobilization of the shoulder resulting in pain and stiffness.Your PT thought labrum but you must have had a capsular pattern of restriction by then nothing like a labral tear. I suspect that a cortizone shot into the capsule will help again. This is what I would do now. Where ever you live get in touch with the state Physio association and find a qualified manual therapist.He or she will show you what should be done. I can speak with some authority about serious shoulder injuries having suffered seveal.
  • Posted

    Interesting you too got worse when you took break from PT...

     

    • Posted

      I think pt definitely loosens things up. I always feel better when I leave.
  • Posted

    Qualifier though... Many think PT makes worse, so I think the KIND of PT matters... Overly agressive I don't think is good... (Although one shoulder expert ortho said when it comes to exercise, STOP before pain; but when it comes to stretching, let it hurt!  I don't know if he's right because a hundred different opinions.  I think it may be good when 1) passive and 2) EASE INTO the stretch (even though painful).

    One other experience to share about stretching.

    I had to get a "nuclear stress test" for heart. You have to your arms overhead for it (kind of like a sunbather on your back)--and leave them their for like 30-45 minutes!  Even though I was able to abbreviate the stretch a bit, and sort of supported the bad arm with good one at the wrist... It was one of those stretches that hurt just a little when starting but more & more the longer I had to do it, until I almost cried Uncle!  All the while you're not supposed to move or even breathe deeply...(or fall asleep)...

    TWICE I had to do this--before and after stress test (about 2 hours apart I'm guessing).

    Well lo & behold--the next day I was like "over the hump" with the worst of the FS pain I'd been experiencing for almost a month after I re-irritated it.  INTERESTING.  I wouldn't have guessed it would have helped at ALL, because it's not like it hurt less at end but the opposite.  Nonetheless I was MUCH better the next day how weird.  Coincidental?  who knows.  Oh by the way, MSM helps a LOT!

    • Posted

      Does it ? I ordered some on ama on but have not used yet. Anyone else try msm?
  • Posted

    PS Addendum to last post--That shoulder expert ortho I believe did qualify passive stretching let it hurt (can't fully remember).

    And finally... The overhead pulleys I personally don't think are good in freezing stage although maybe I didn't give them a fair try.  But my body said "uh uh!" and when I tried I went lower and lower the pain was reducing the motion when I tried to do for full 2 minute goal.

    • Posted

      valerie, again!

      ​No stretching ever. Pulleys the worst. The shoulder is a concave convex joint it needs to spin and roll and glide. It requires passive movements by the therapist without the elbow ever moveing from the side of the body. As I say I speak from experience.

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