froggy's fort for the day2

Posted , 3 users are following.

The way some people work.. A to D


Step-by-step (linear)

INTO Others – emotions outwards

ABOUT SELF – how many forms did I process today?

DON’T CARE – who cares if the process is unfair/ unpopular? This is how its done and my queue is shorter than yours.

“Outside the box moments” are actually “off the path moments” and would be pretty scary..


MUST be safe

Do not step off the path or you die

Do not allow anyone else to step off the path cause they will kill them.


Process work is a breeze - always done the same way - no change


No change or else.

Attacks anyone different from them.



Ticks off the lists


Reasons for the processes, but not how they got them.

Defined time frames.

Gets depressed if the path is not well defined.



Creative (Area)


INTO Self - emotions inwards (always on own path, never joining others)

ABOUT OTHERS (ie helping others to work better, happier, smarter, team)


“Outside the box moments” are actually in the box, and happen more frequently.

Very satisfying, like finding a tree with the golden fleece in the forest.


MANY Skills

Can drop everything and help another team member in a totally different skill.

Continuous improvement by default instead of forcing unnatural audits to cover for this deficit.

Can work out that you don't need B and C to get to D.


Concentration - to many shinnies. FOR GOD's SAKES DON't PUT THEM ON PROCESS WORK smile

Gets hurt as they are wandering around the wilderness looking for new paths.

Gets depressed when there is no guidance.

Gets depressed when there is no assurance that you are OK.


A defined area to play in, but NEVER A PATH.

Feedback "Yep you are still in your area." "Great! You've found a new way of doing stuff!"

A final destination only - preferably with NO time frame.

MUST know how the processes were done so they can improve.

NOT BORING but can pin you up against the wall for a hour explaining where they are no with the latest widget mk 1.23.15.

GETS additional depression when people run away from them.


I think I’m a WANDERER

I'm VERY happyin I.T. support, but I'm now in Library where even he placement of barcodes on the spine is regulated. (and enforced by my killer, step-by-step assistant)

So I don't fit.

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17 Replies

  • Posted

    Additional thought..

    "A final destination only - preferably with NO time frame."

    By that I mean give creatives an outcome and don't care how Its done.

    'Step-by-step' people have The Process to get to the outcome MUST be adhered to. Linear people are good with safety related stuff.

    'Creative' people are good at I.T. support. where it doesn't matter how it was done, just that the person has their computer working again.

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  • Posted

    Hi Froggy I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about but it is very entertaining lol    Bev x

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    • Posted

      Does this help?

      Basically, others have said that their workplace is really stressful and I am comparing my old job 5% unhappy with my new job which is 95% unhappy and finding out what is different.

      New job = I have to place a barcode on a book in the right place or I get talked down, and worse it gets put down that I don't do anything right.

      I have to advise when I am going to the toilet so the assistant knows where I am for heaven's sakes.

      Old job = Is the computer working? GREAT STEVE.. Onyer ..

      Difference is that the old job focussed on the *outcome* = Working computer. Not what correct steps taken to get there.

      If my new job was Outcome based, it would be GREAT STEVE there is a barcode on the book.

      The difference Is that there are at least two groups of people - Step-by step ones like my assistant that wants the barcode placed in exactly the correct place and the other is someone who looks at the whole process from the outside as it were and provides improvements.

      Having two extreme opposites like My situation creates conflict as the assistant cannot handle the barcode being placed anywhere but lower left corner. And I don't care about that because the whole point of a barcode is it can be placed anywhere.

      I don't know if my assistant gets depression as well, but it probably makes her feel as if it is not a good job as she has to deal with variations.

      I do not feel good as I get complained at all the time for minor stuff, but don't get recognised for innovating new stuff -like finding an entirely new way of accessing books that cuts the search time down my 5mins for each book- because I don't just follow what’s there already. I explore. I ask why. I need a box to play in, not a path that I must walk on or else.

      Sure there would be others in my position. It makes the workplace a very valueless place to be in.. And if you don't get value, you get depressed.

      Same as the comments on the forum about studying.. It seems like it feels OK at the beginning, as everything is new and you are treated well. But as time goes on, it seems as if you feel like you are only part of a process.

      Talking generally and this is a wish..

      In the old days, studying was called apprentiship or mentoring where you were actually at the workplace, you did the job,

      !!!you got paid for studying!!! Instead of having to pay for tuition.

      You finished the apprentiship and had something that people don't seem to have these days. Hands-on-Experience.

      I'm in an engineering area, and the newbies have never touched engines, looked at how a carburettor works.. They only know the formula for fluid dynamics of how the air comes into the carburettor.

      So what do these golden people do when they get a real job? they accidently damage a ship.

      And they know this. Which is hard on them, so they are depressed.

      The older community are not allowed to teach the younger community so they are depressed as they can see what is going to happen before it happens.

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  • Posted

    Ah I sort of get it now Froggy.   I have always worked in an office (a drone) and I once worked out why I quite liked the job.  I had some autonomy.   As long as my work was done and correctly I was left alone.  If I felt tired one day I could have a bit of a doss day and make it up the next day.  No one questioned it.   I was allowed to think for myself and organise my own work and use my brain.   In other words I was trusted and seen as a good worker.  Quite a lot of my self esteem came from being good at my job and seen to be good at it.   I could also help less experienced or less able staff out and found I was good at that too. 

    Contrast that with my last job in the DWP (civil service) Contact Centre where I had to sit with a headset on all day taking benefit claims.   I had to follow word for word what was on the computer and repeated the same things day after endless day.  I was never allowed to think for myself and there were targets which were set deliberately so high that no one could actually reach them.   We had a meeting with our line manager every 2 weeks in which s/he would point out how many seconds I had been on a call,  how long I had taken in aftercall for notes etc. and I would get told to improve those.   I did for next time but then my other targets wouldn't be met.  It was a vicious circle.   I was once 20 second late back from a break and the real time officer rang down to my team leader and I was told off!  

    No wonder I hated the job with a passion and my depression came back full force.  This seems to be the way things are moving now and I just thank goodness my working life has now ended.   I pity the younger generation!   Bev x


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    • Posted


      I had some autonomy. As long as my work was done and correctly I was left alone. If I felt tired one day I could have a bit of a doss day and make it up the next day. No one questioned it. I was allowed to think for myself and organise my own work and use my brain.


      WAAAH!! good words WAAHH sad

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    • Posted

      Y'know that’s EXACTLY the same thing as me.

      Someone who needs a sandbox shoved into a restrictive environment.

      I just need to be shown the walls - ie to complete this task, this information needs to be put here but we don't care how.

      So in a detailed example,


      (A) Acknowledge book receipt, (B) Barcode on book, (C) Book on shelf, (D)Database updated, (E)Acknowledge job completion to sender.

      In my old job, I would complete each in time whenever, and my suggestion "job completion doesn't need to be sent to sender as

      it takes extra time for me and sender to process.. if they were really worried (and doing their job properly) they'd audit

      our books regularly." would be submitted raised and acknowledged with “weeeel we may use it” or “thanks but we'll stay as we are”. Either way I'm rewarded by my efforts.

      People would talk to me: how far are you thru these books steve? Oh OK.

      In my new job.

      A MUST be done before B. I am not allowed to store books at outcome B. I MUST do E even thought the sender complains that I'm sending spam email to them. (its my fault)

      I cannot say its because the boss decided this cause 1. It wasn't a formal meeting, OR 2. someone else other than my boss controls that process and does not accept responsibility for any issues related to it.

      Scenarios are:

      (D)Database updated, but (C)book not on shelf yet *SLAP*

      Books left in a pile while I look at some other Library issue *SLAP*

      Assistant can't work out where I am in the process cause I use piles of books for each step instead of a tick list. *SLAP* *SLAP* *ARGUMENT* *SLAP* *ARGUEMENT* all the darn day ..


      This is a VERY simple library example.. our work instructions used to be 108 pages!!!! so think how many failures could be made for all combinations of scenario.

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    • Posted

      Regarding being told off, I was p11sed off by someone external blocking something working on the database to something that didn't. They argued with me so I withdrew. Later my boss formally warned me I was breaching work values by not talking to people. sad

      OK so a DAY later, I was talking to the boss about an audit we have to do one someone, and he sent an email then forgot what he did with the email. He said he forgot cause "I was gabbling at him"


      I'm now wondering if I should email him and suggest he tells me exactly what level of talking I should use for every situation I'm in so I don't talk too little or to much.

      So I have to contact HR for advice.

      Which wastes time.

      Which, like you - will be placed back to me - why is Steve not doing anything but sending emails.?

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    • Posted


      I came up with that idea during a psych session.

      Now that I've got that "pattern" I'm going to see what types of jobs fit MY pattern. As far as I think at the moment, Chaotic but Structured.

      ie MANY different tasks, types of tasks uin any order; HOW they are handled is more structured, BUT controlled by me. So I am comfortable having a printer problem, then a Server issue, Laptop, PDA in the one day.



      I have always worked in an office (a drone) and I once worked out why I quite liked the job.


      I also like stamped out jobs. Cause It gives me comfort. I guess cause i'm not stumbling around. The autonomy lets me decide how and what order the stamps are completed.

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    • Posted

      Also, because i'm a socks in the dryer person (multiple simultaneous thoughts), I think about something completely different when I'm stamping out stuff.
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  • Posted

    Hi Froggy well I have learned that I need a job with some autonomy but most of all varied tasks and definitely NO targets!   A structure is fine but some room to manouevre within it is essential.  

    I am the sort of person who can't learn by rote but have to understand what I am doing and why.  Once I get it I then run with it and think for myself.   I have to see the whole picture and not just part of it.   I like to take responsibility for my own work and not just be a cog in a wheel.  That just makes me feel like a hamster frantically running and getting exactly nowhere - soul destroying like my last job.  

    The only 2 things I had going for me in my last awful job was my typing speed as I used to be a copy typist.  The other was I was always told I was great with people and built up a rapport with them.   The money was very good though so I stuck with it for over 5 years to try and get financially solvent and I did for the first time in my life so I guess in some ways it was worth it.  It did bring my depression back full force though which has not really gone away since.   And I cannot deal with stress any more in any way shape or form.  

    Like I said I am glad I am retired now and don't have to put myself through the hell of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole.   I would hate to be young again now and have to try and do an terrible job like that again and it seems a lot of jobs are target based now.  

    Bev x


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    • Posted

      Yeah - enjoy yr retirement as much as U can smile

      You and I have the same personalities I think - except i'm no good at typing - my skill was to very quickly come up with 15 scenarios and fix the computer problems easily. I also have to understand why.

      My sand box description is the structure you are talking about. Give me some walls not a path.. ie give an unconstricted area to play in **and trust me** and I'm fine. I dont get trust or leeway in this current job.

      At the moment, I asked for an update to my Library database (Im the manager, and I'm meant to be the one setting the way the library will run.). The programmer - external - has come back telling us that he is going to do it his way ie completely different from me.

      My boss told me to agree to everything that is discussed in the meeting today, so I am in the classic middle: if I protest anything, I've disobeyed the boss, and if I leave it and it stuffs up then the programmer / my boss is "Oh but Steve had a meeting with with the programmer and he approved the changes." I bet the boss won't turn up to the meeting cause he knows I'll tell the programmer that I cannot make any descisions and that the boss will.

      Last fortnight I argued abou the perogram, and was formally warned about BEING quiet after the argument, last wednesday I was told I was 'blabbing too much' that the boss didn't know where an email he sent in the middle of me talking to him (rude of boss).

      So now Im too quiet and too talkative. What do I do? Seriously?

      This is what I'm going thru at the moment.. I have to "diarise" this. To do that, it is much more wordy ('expressed the opinion', instead of 'said' etc) and long and takes ages. I basically have to write several chapters of a book every week just to cover myself. Instead of completing Library work.

      I'm sure others have the same issues and it really isn't fair is it?

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    • Posted

      Agree. I would LOVE jobs to be Result based and not Target based, but since this is all about computers and numbers in computers, unfortunatly that doesn't happen.
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  • Posted

    Hi Froggy I think you are in the classic situation of middle management,  having to deal with the higher ups as well as the lower downs.  It's a very tricky balancing act isn't it?  You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.   I don't have any advice to give you except be yourself.  And pick your battles.   You were hired to do the job  so the higher ups must think you can.   That's an old clique but nonetheless true for that. 

    Stand your  ground with the higher ups,  issue instructions to the lower downs,  and with your peers - negotiate.   Make sense?  Bev x

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    • Posted


      Trouble is that I transferred to stay in Public Service cause internal I.T. support was sold off to a contractor, so I'm a 'foreigner' to the new Unit - even after 7 years.

      I have a Diploma of Database Systems, but they won't give me authority to make changes, cause one of the Ex-Navy person is a self-styles database manager of the unit. I made a submission a month ago for an update, and today they are just about to force approval of a corrupt version. Programmed by an Ex-Navy Mate of the Unit's Ex-Navy person.

      I guess. I would like 'right' to win - i'm being a Paladin, and I'm trying to fight the corruption. But nowdays it doesn't work.

      Seems a lot of people nowdays have this wish to be unmolested and given a chance to be good at their jobs, but it seems to be getting harder and harder.

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