frustrating doctors appointment

I don't believe what I am reading, although perhaps I do know because my doctors were a bit like that, you are too old, and give you painkillers. Absolutely diisgusting - you can complain as Deborah is saying but if you do (would it be thr PCT - I would put on the bottom cc: a newspaper or whoever you think would llike the information)   I paid £100 both in England and 100€ in Spain to see a surgeon I don't have private insurance, plus anyone of my age 73 wouldn't have private insurance anyway.  Its not so expensive but we shouldn't have to do it.  I am absolutely disgusted and I would complain to your PCT (if you are english)  I guess that Deborah is in America but I think one of these insurance companies that put in claims would be the right people, a solicitor in England wouldn't do such a complaint.

I have in the 6 years I have been here, found out that if you demand, you may get somewhere. The Spanish don't muck about - if they want an appointment at the hospital they tell the doctor to give them a referral not chit chat - perhaps you are like me, I remember the last time I went to an English doctor and she sat down and told me all about her son who had reading difficulties.  I mean I went in there with 3 prolapsed discs.  Do I really want to hear her problems.

It does need thinking about.   I went to change doctors and the doctor asked why I wanted to change doctors and I told them and they chat to each other and I had to go back to the same doctor because the doctor I was hoping would take over my medical records chatted to her over the phone.  

Deborah is also right about bones, you could ask about having a bone scan though.  Its quick and tells you about your bone density.  Although I had one in England before I came here and they said I was OK, in Spain I wasn't so I take vitamin D every day (twice a day at first) I'm a lot older than you and I think the same, what am I going to do in future.  I went shopping today and by the time I found what I wanted I couldn't try the clothes on because of such pain.

I am sure that the doctors are over worked but I don't think its right that they should say that to you.  I certainly wouldn't go to another doctor in that practice I would pay to go to a private doctor.

  There are exercises you can do but doubt that they would make a lot of difference but the vitamin D sounds the first port of call as you do have X Rays be interesting what a private doctor would say.

Just another point, what medication are you taking.    Mine does tone the pain down but I don't want to go onto morphine etc. so have to stick at it.   i go for a long walk to tire myself out but you can't do that either.  I think its something for a doctor!!!  Hope you get some satisfafcion, let us know how you grt on.

 

I didn't know you could ask for a private referral.  Thats good information.

Honestly I only thought it was me who had treatment like you two. I understand that knees do need to be absolutely bad to have them operated on but did they say, come back in such and such a time, then you would know that there WAS something they could do I agree, about the difference between the UK and USA but then the USA have private insurance, but when as young ens paid into the State Health system we thought that we were going to receive adequate treatment. I have it in the spine also, and its no joke - i have now got 3 prolapsed discs and fingers and one or two toes, its not nice getting older especially when you have a crap doctor.  I'm 73 - well nearly - I walk when I can but since last yr have to space walking - 3 days to get over it lol.   I agree, we have to do whats best, but I am damned if I will go into a wheelchair yet as I was told by 1 surgeon 10 years ago.  We never know about other peoples' health do we? I do yoga which is brilliant and its very slow and precise and if you can't do anything you just rest.   Best of luck everyone 

GP's are now being asked to cut down on sending referals.- is it worth it coming back to the UK !!!

It makes me really cross to read these messages.  Yes we do have a right to be referred and we shouldn't have to pay to see another dr or surgeon but if you are in pain what else can you do.  We all seem to be of similar health issues, I had the good luck to know spanish people and through them I got my first appointment but the lady took me to the GP and very very firmly said that I needed to see a surgeon. Mind its not done any good as the surgeon said because of scar tissue he wouldn't operate.

But there is good advice on here and some I have made a note of. I put the referral back from the surgeon to the pain clinic and got an appointment next week so thats fairly quick.  The dr at the pain clinic speaks excellent English too.  I am not sure what one dr put into my thigh but it was the best I had, 4 injections in one side and 3 in the other - brilliant it lasted at least a year.  I don't know how much these philes take so will just have to see how i go.  Physio in England, I went 3 separate times and I think they thought that I was putting it all on, it wasn't offered after that.

Some of these medications by the way - you need to drink plenty of liquid, I've had to go to hospital twice since I was here in Spain and in both cases I wasn't drinking enough but i think the water dilutes the medications in the stomach.  I used to drink tea with ginger but somehow got out of the habit but there is some in the fridge so will give it a go again.

It just proves one thing thought, drs are the same whichever country you live in but I have to say that Spain has been the best and there are a lot of British people here who won't go back to England because of the excellent treatment.   The last government made us pay a contribution towards our medication and they have been chucked out so we don't pay anything.  However, my dr would only give me 1 pazital 3 times a day - not enough so I have to buy the extra, 3.50€ so its not much.  But.. The British Government pays Spain £2,000 a year for us pensioners towards our medical care. There is an underlying fear now that people might vote for us coming out of the EEC which would mean that it would be very difficult for us to live in Spain, i.e. pensions, we would be immigrants etc. etc.  So watch this psace

Thank you and Deborah for everyone who has contributed towards the conversations and help.Brilliant

Hi, where did you get your advise regarding diet. I have awful osteoarthritis in my right hip. I am only 39, I do regular hydro, have started cycling and am trying to build up my core. I have been told a hip replacement is my only option. I've had steroid injections a few weeks ago and I have found a positive difference. It's stopped me taking so many pain killers.

Any information regarding diet would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a million.

Triona

Hi Trixybelle.  I got do fed up that i spent about a month full time on Google Scholar surfing reports from all over the world and read at least 500 articles all over the internet. I made a list of anything and everything anyone said they reacted to. Then i made a grid of all fruit veg nuts and seeds and what was in them to ensure i got everything the body needs reguarly.  Then i decided this is what i;d wast for 12 weeks to see if it made a difference to me:  Fish, Fruit, Veg exc nightshades, seeds, nuts.  Then went to the bookshop and bought a load of books on different ways to do veg so i didnt get bored and a couple of vegan ones.  Basically, i cut out dairy, gluten, meat sugar i.e. pretty much everything for 12 weeks and radically increased the amount of fruit and veg i ate.  so for example, for breakfast i;d have oats / gluten free muesli with at least 4 different fruits chopped up on top of it, with almond milk. I alternated so one day i;d have muesli or porridge with e.g. a berry day : strawbs, raspberries, blueberries, grpes and then then next day i;d have same but with pineapple, mango, kiwi and banana. etc.   Then for lunch i'd have salad and for dinner i;d have fish (done a million different ways) with veggies and i learnt to cook veggies a lot of different way. Was never hungry and after week 1 found it easy actually.  Lost 8 kilos in a month, felt years younger and i also took up swimming as i could not walk very well without pain to start with.  I did exclude nightshades as a lot of people have issues with them as they all have a certain chemical in that some people seem to react to (the nightshades are tomatoes, potatoes, aubergines and pappers.).   I would say on a normal day i had about 10 different fruit and veggies as i tried to ensure that my body wasnt defficient in anything at all!!   Gradually, with the swimming and diet i kind of got better  - i really never thought the crepitus would go - i creaked all over - but it did. I dont know if it was the diet or not but it kind of worked. After 12 weeks i started to add things back in to see if tha pain came back. I dont actually think i am allergic ot anything particularly but i do notice a difference on dairy & tomatoes. I still dont eat much of this (which i loved before).  I do eat chicken and fish now and very occasionally (maybe once a month, red meat). I personally have not found that meat was an issue for me (others have).  THe things which seem to set me back are gluten, tomatoes, dairy, too much sugar.  I am not actually sure if i got a lot better because i suddenly made sure my body got all the vits and minerals it needed to operate properly or if something caused inflammation.   Basically, the bottom line is that inflammation is incredibly bad and sets off lots of complex chamical reactions within the joints. WHilst all doctors say its wear and tear, it isnt really... the cartilege starts to break down due to a chemical reaction and at some stage it got inflammation.   The 3 main 'cures' the medics are working on for arthritis are a) stem cells to replace the cartilege b) chemical drugs which turn off the infalammatory response so the cartilege doesnt degrade c) an implant in the neck which enables a magnet to turn off the vagus nerve to turn off inflammation.   Thus i kind of thought if i can control the inflammation by taking some anti-inflammatories short term whilst giving my body all the vits and mins and ensuring that the anti-oxidants work, then i might have a chance. I discovered for example that brazil nuts have a substance that enables anti-oxidants to work, more so tan any other nut - and you only need 3 a day so i eat 3 brazil nuts a day - which might seem a bit nutty but i thought why not give it a go, you have nothing to lose.   Only eat 3 as thats all you need and they have 33 cals in each!!   Discovered pineapple and cherries are also really briliant for you, which i didnt know before and all sorts of other interesting things like e.g. apples and pears are best eaten together as pears have a substance that allows the good stuff in apples to work better; garlic is better chopped and allowed to rest for 10 mins before using as the enzymes start to work etc.  I basically now go to Lidl (or Waitrose as thats all i have round here) and buy some of every veggie and fruit for the next fortnight and mix them all up.   I really eat tons more fish now.   

The interesting thing is that it did actually change my good cholesterol significantly; it also got rid of most of my cellulite (but that took 9 months to work). I just feel a lot younger and my hips knees and feet just gradually got a lot better. The swimming has knackered my shoulders a bit so i am seeing a physio for that - its a known issue if you swim too much without strong core as you dont roll enough doing front crawl. Anyway i am hopefull of getting a good result.   I think my posture was all wrong as well.  I am not weird or anything - i just thought i can give up or determine to try everything possible to see if i can alter this.   Then i went to see the 3 doctors working on cures rather than pain killers. I've now set up a resarch programme to see if we can track the triggers that set it off.  Thing is every GP asks a different set of questions so really hopeless for researchers so we are piloting a questionnaire for everyone in a few surgeries, so that we have a common set of answers to see if we can peice anything together. 

Good luck.... dont give up, cos you are too young.   I think i was also lucky as i dont think i have OA genes in my family. Some people have bad genes which you cant really do anything much about - but normally in hands. I honestly think if you catch it early enough you can get better or at least make it manageable.   I also find if i dont exercise literally every day, then the pain comes back again... if i sit around too much then the pain comes back... i may be wrong but i kind of think the joints need the right vits and mins and need exercise to lubricate them.  If too much cartilege has gone, then none of this may help. But i;d give it a go.   The other thing is that the stem cell cures wont be too far away for hips so i'd try everything before hip replacement at 39 as within 5 years stem cells will be able to re-grow the cartilege... already on test in phase 3 real clinical trials in UK on knees but getting better all the time so i'd try everything at your age as you wont be too old before stem cells or other cure coudl take over from hip replacements. Not tomorrow but cant imagine it will be more than 5 years... massive advances being made all the time in this area now.  Anyway, give it a go and see if it helps...

I've heard of the brazil nuts (dash we don't grow them in spain) and I have heard tomatoes are bad for you.  I can try the fruit though, we have such a wide range   Its a pity someone at Uni couldn't actually do a statistic/paper on this, what about trying them out.  Its not the time of year now but come the new year, September/October we should try.  I have the genes unfortunately.   I haven't told anyone this but when I was about 11 you know when the nurse used to come round and inspect us, fleas, nits etc. I somehow got an appointment to go and see this specialist in the Health Department and I bunked off.   Now I think they must have spotted something anyway its my fault. As I have said, my daughter and mother were the same but I think that you forgot one thing Vitamin D.  Not sure where you get it from but when I came to spain thats the first thing I was put on even though i'd had tests in Englanf, it wasn't enough.  However, I read that you can have too much D so have left it off until I see the pain clinic.Don't each much of the nightshades actually because of my weight problem with medication.  But it was interesting what you did, however, what do you do when there are other people that eat with you.....

thats what I am asking for when i go to pain clinic. It made a hell of a difference to me too.  Only the UK don't believe in giving big injections, I am not sure how many injections you are allowed in the UK but in Spain I had 4 in one thigh and 3 in the other, thats probably why I put on such a lot of weight but gradually now the weather is good we are out walking nearly every day untik the hot weather comes and that will probably undoe everything I have worked for.  Can't cycle and nor can I swim so that out lol.  Walking is best for me because we see such a lot of things in the countryside........

Hi, I would not worry about vitamin D is you live in spain - 20minutes in the sun is all you need to create enough for the day. Otherwise oily fish is a good source so i would think in Spain you would not be short of Vit D. 

When cooking for my family, i give them lots of fish and veggies for the main meal and i often roast meat or chicken for them and then pop in a fish for me 10 minutes before the end of the meat, so really not a problem. I do eat chicken now.  I just dont eat the potatoes they do but not an issue as i normally do lots of vegetables for any main meal. are all much healthier now too - really the only thing they miss out on are pies and quiche but sometimes i buy them one from M&S!  The children eat the same as us.  its not an issue...if we go out there are always tondsof veg and fish or chicken is on most  menus. If we go to Pizza Express then the kids and husband have pizza (realy treat for them!) but i choose their salads... which are super actually.   I dont really know why it works - and it did take a while, it gradually got better... maybe i lacked something that was key or maybe i just get a lot more nutrients now.  I sprinkle seeds on most things now; really cant go wrong increasing and varying your fruit and veg.   The other thing i did was see a hand surgeon as i had terrible painful nodules on my fingers. He immobilised them for 3 months - which is unusual - but the pain went and whilst it has taken a year, the last nodule has nearly disappeared - only i woudl know it was there.  He explained that immobilisation of the hand meant scar tissue had a chance to grow (its very slow growing) between the joints which acts to protect the joint. I was really surprised the nodules have gone - but they did take months to go. Also i did this as soon as they started to appear so maybe i halted whatever was happening. I dont know if this will work if you have bad genes but i;d give it all a go as you have little to lose. The worse thing that can happen is that you will lose weight and get healthier so i kind of 'went for it'. Good luck to you.. xx

Hi sparkle. Yes, I am out in the sun every day but the point of taking Vit D was that England said I was fine (and the scan really I couldn't see anything wrong) but my dr sent me for another scan and it said I needed vit D but I have heard you can take too much vit D so that will be an issue I will be taking up when i see the pain clinic dr.  We are surrounded by orange groves so I always drink pure orange juice and eat  satsumas, manderins etc. and we have 2 trees growing in the garden.  There are tons and tons of fruit here so never without it.   I've never had a scan since so don't know what the density is. But my nails are really strong - I was a bit scared  actually because if I still have bone spurs do they grow more with doses of Vit D.   We hardly ever have a cold and if we do, its a silly thing that you can't really call a cold. We are out in the fresh air nearly every day, gardening, walking and discovering the historic countryside.  Nodules do you mean Dupuytren's contracture, I thought once you had it you had to have an operation in the end.   If its this, I have it on my left hand but it doesn't bother me, no pain or anything. Lose weight, how do you do that lol.   Lyrica is known for putting weight on and so are cortisone injections but they take the pain away - its difficult, I try and eat the right things, we have fish twice a week, and exercise (and I exercise to the extreme that when I walk, I am absolutely knackered and in terrible pain - I just have to get home to sit down) otherwise i do yoga which is fine. Never usually eat pastry but my partner cooks as I am incapable of standing for long, bless him, he even mops the floor and hoovers.  We tend to eat chicken. There are enormous chicken houses over here you can tell the chicken from the pig hiouses lol.... I love it here but we have never been able to sell our property to buy a bigger one and have 2 sets of furniture. Probably just as well because if England comes out of the EEC we will be illegal immigrants and we don't know what will happen to the tax situation and our pensions. A bit scarey.  So we may be looking to go back home - as is most English people over here.  The forums over here - people are all asking about benefits -     You want to see the fruit that is wasted over here, citrus fruit all on the ground wasted.  8 wheeled trucks full of fruit being carted off.  Terrible waste.  All the best and thanks for the chat and I am sure you are going the right way with food.

Hi, its virtually impossible to overdose on Vitamin D - sometimes people who eat a lot of e.g. cod live oil tablets might.   I think you'd know if you did overdose on it as main issue is constipation and peculiar heart patterns... i dont think it would make bone spurs grow more - ask when you go to the pain clinic but i cant imagine you are short of it.   Spain sounds idyllic.  

I cant imagine we'll come out of the EU either so no point in worrying about that one yet... and in any event they would all come to some deal or other as we have as many europeans here as are over in europe so something would have to be agreed and that would take forever - it would go to being like Norway or Switzerland which are kind of half in and half out so i really wouldnt worry about that until it happens as it will just stress you out and make your pain worse...   

I live down in Cornwall... blowing a gale at the moment so not a lot of sunshine here... i'd stay over in Spain if i were you as sounds great... 

 

Sorry I checked the vitamin D out, should have done it before really https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/am-i-getting-too-much-vitamin-d/   you would have to over dose a lot !!!

Yep I will ask the pain clinic about the Vit D regarding bone spurs, if the boss sees me - he was quite good, don't people like to talk about themselves though when they can speak English and about their visits to England, bless him.  The nurse though was crap.  He lost his temper with the computer, like we do!!!

Well I'm not sure Spain is idyllic, we are getting ready to go home anyway, flat up for sale and ours is up for sale in England. Want to move, not far, from Kendal but will probably rent out first we will never sell this flipping place.  people don't seem to want old properties like they did in beginning of the 2000s.  Some neighbours are nice but some are horrible to us, despite the fact they are immigrants too lol.  Because we live in the old Moorish part, we have to walk about 10/20 minutes to home unless there is a parking place in the square which is rare.  If I continue as I am I will get worse at walking and so just thinking ahead. really.  My pain is in the groin and my thigh (sciatica) I take lyrica which is not a good drug to be on it puts weight on and you lose your memory but then so does cortisone have side affects.   I can't have an op because of the 2 stupid surgeons that have had a go and have left scar tissue.  I went to a private surgeon in Valencia he walked out of the health system because he and others hadn't been paid for months)I had more thorough X Rays and MRIs done and because I had scar tissue I am unable to have an op. The ops were in England, 1 was practicing on me (I know for a fact - think I have said on this page) and the other was cockey and think once he opened me up there were more issues than he thought but it cost me £7,000.  

Not sure whether it was windy last night, we have a high wall surrounding us so very rarely get any wind, the wall protects us, but I did see the plants doing a shakey when I got up.  Don't really have time to sit on the beach believe it or not, we are always doing something, 40 minutes to Benidorm/Alicante and the other side, Valencia.  Plus we like the fiestas so at the moment just finding out where they are, but if there are no seats to buy I can't go unless we take our own seats..  Love the costums for the Moors & Christians, the medieval markets etc. We like history too and it is absolutely loaded with history, and the walks, we sometimes go along the riverside/campo snashing a manderin or two (quite legal) did you know that Spain used to export to England raisens? that was until they had a big epidemic and it stopped. Things like that - a lot of people (local) don't know there was an airport just up the road which was built to attack Franco, probably took too much time building it (see many siestas) and he arrived before it was built.  We sometimes go for days off and we have been all over for a day - my partner never researches and never knows where he is going so we have to go again !!!! But sitting for hours doesn't do the sciatica any good and there are fiestas coming up in March so hoping for a cortisone injection before then.

Sounds like you do a bit of yoga, stretching etc. do some before I get out of bed but its difficult on our floors being tiled lol.  I love the cat.... makes me feel so good afterwards.

Most of  Aldi have closed here but Llidl is usually packed with all the expats but we do our shopping there most times. Was staggered at christmas when we parked the car in their car park and got a parking fine of £45 - didn't see the sign. That was bingley....

Speaking of tomatoes, there were over 30 varieties in the supermarket (not Lldl) Al Campo in Valencia the other day.

Stick at it sparkle, you are doing the right thing, I try.............

 

My sister has a flat in Kendal... i think i;d prefer the sun to the floods..!!

.. probably not a good time to buy in Kendal due to the flooding hitting the news .. we are on third floor and hte insurance company told us it was a flood risk LOL!!!  Valencia sounds great.   I had the same problem with woodne floors - dead hard - so bought a really thick yoga mat. A yoga band helps too as then you only have to do little movements.  I dont know if what i do is yoga or not - went to a great physio in London and she wrote me a load of exercises that i could do and then about every 3 months i go back and she varies it a bit to what i can then do. Has helped me no end.  I liked it as she only gave me exercises that i could do at the time and gradually changed them over time so i was never in pain or anything. They take one hour and i do every other day normally - all stretching and stuff... to be honest the physio helped me way more than the doctors and gp (other than the hand surgeon, who was magic although he didnt do any surgery..). 

I woudl think the physio may give you stuff for the sciatica - i seem to recall straight leg raises are meant to help but thats about the only pain i havent had so best to ask ...  I'll try and ask who is a good guy near Kendal for you next time i see the hand surgeon... joined the charity he supports (the healing foundation) so now see him even though he no longer treats me... 

dont get discouraged... you only have to live one day at a time ... next time you go ask them to give you a stretching and exercise programme for the sciatica... I just seem to recall straight leg raises and getting your partner to gently push your leg towards you a little bit more every so many seconds... you should ask...  

PS I LOVE Booths in Kendal... my fave shop but sis lives in Kendal and i live in Cornwall so a long way to go... but every time i go, then I love Booths! 

 

Hi sparkle,

your email ail information is fabulous.

very informative and reassuring that looking outside of the mainstream. NHS can really help.

i have OA in my hips and am about to have a THR (tomorrow in fact). I think that a 2nd one on other side is potentially unavoidable, but hoping that good physio could help. I would be very interested in knowing who you physio is in London?

i too am noticing crepitus, and what appears to be creeping arthritis pain in my thumbs and big toes. I have an appointment this afternoon with a podiatrist, but am very interested in consulting with Chris khoo. Although I did notice that in a previous post you mentioned that he might be able to recommend a consultant closer to me (I am in the Midlands).

i am 51years old, so not happy to accept that this is wear and tear.

i too believe that something I am doing is weakening my cartilage.

anyway, look forward to hearing back from you.

lindsey