GCA Experiences

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 The discussions on this site tend to centre around PMR and they are always interesting and often useful. However I would like some input from others who suffer from GCA. I went blind in one eye about 14 years ago and saw a consultant at Moorfields who said nothing could be done. PMR and GCA were not diagnosed. More recently I started to lose the sight in the other eye and went very deaf. I had already been diagnosed with PMR and given low doses of prednisalone which did help a little. Like so many contributors to this site I found GPs varying wildly in their prescriptions of prednisalone. One called 10mg a high dose and wanted me off them as quickly as possible; another said I should increase the dose.

Eventually I saw a consultant opthalmologist and a consultant rheumotologist, but even they did not agree on the dosage of prednisolone. Finally they agreed on a massive dose of 60mg pd which I have been reducing gradually. I am now down to 22mg pd. I do not have a great deal of pain from the PMR but am largely confined to a wheelchair, while the loss of sight and deafness are worsening. I do not expect miracles and the restoration of my sight and hearing but I would like to prevent them worsening further.

So, has anyone had a similar experience and have they managed to halt the progressive loss of sight and hearing? I am most anxious to hear other peoples' experiences.

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  • Posted

    Hallo Audrey.  So sorry to hear of all your troubles.  You really have gone through it, haven't you?  I personally haven't got GCA, thank goodness, but there are many on this site who have.  I am sure you will get help, or at least people who will understand what you are going through.  We are all here to try and cheer each other up.  All the best.  Constance
  • Posted

    I'm sorry to hear your story Audrey and I fully understand your need to hear from GCA sufferers - but the primary reason the discussions here centre on PMR is because relatively few of the members are GCA patients. There were some when I first joined - nearly 6 years ago now - but 3 years ago they revamped the site and for nearly a year it required great patience and committment to get onto it at all and post and the forum became almost moribund. 

    If you follow this link within this site:

    https://patient.info/forums/discuss/pmr-gca-and-other-website-addresses-35316

    you will find a thread with various information links. The first is to the NE of England support group site which has a lot of info and stories from patients and then the next link is to their forum where there are a few ladies with GCA. The lady who got that support group set up had GCA and I think there is a helpline there and I am sure there are other GCA patients to be contacted but who don't use the forum. 

    In the second post on that thread you will find a link to the HealthUnlocked forum where there are also more people with GCA, how many I'm not sure because they often don't tend to differentiate between having PMR and GCA and I don't know them as well. 

    I know there are a few who have suffered serious loss of vision because of GCA but I can't remember anyone with similar problems to you. Did the eye specialist at Moorfields suggest WHY you lost sight in the first eye? Certainly once the sight in one eye has gone in GCA it can be a struggle to save the other, vision usually goes within a few weeks, and there is nothing to be done since it is nerve damage that is the cause and that is irreversible. 

    However, I will have a shout out to the people who frequent this forum occasionally as well as the others - but do please feel able to come and join the other forums.

  • Posted

    Dear Audrey, what can I say, you really have been through the mill. I cannot be of any help to you other than offer you support. You are quite right regarding the varying approaches to the treatment of PMR. I can only say to you that It is pretty established that the treatment is a gradual reduction of preds. Eileen often mentions the Bristol plan which is an approach to the treating of PMR written by experts in this field. My dr and rheumatologist have stuck to this plan, sort of, and as much as I want to get off preds Asap I understand, as Eileen has said, this is not a race and whilst we, the patient, is displaying signs of active PMR we have to take the appropriate level of preds to keep it in check. Do look up the Bristol plan because it is excellent and is a plan the authors hope all Drs and rheumatologists folow. Some however, are still so ignorant of PMR and GCA. But as a fellow contributor has commented, patients must be so much more proactive re our treatment as it is quite obvious that sometimes we are far better informed than those who are treating us, which is worrying! So getting off of preds Asap is not an option. You say you are largely confined to a wheelchair? Is this through something other than PMR? Also, have you actually been diagnosed with GCA and is it GCA that is actually affecting your remaining sight and hearing. 

    Audrey, as much as you have enough on your plate to put it mildly, you really must arm yourself with as much information as possible so that when you visit these so called experts you have lots of questions that will require answers and if they don't answer them in line with what you have read up on, politely submit another reason for why things are not quite as they should be, and await their reasons for why they are approaching your treatment plan in a particular way.

    all the best, christina 

  • Posted

    Audrey, I'm so sorry to hear the problems you have encountered with both PMR and GCA, not least the loss of vision. and possibly due to having undiagnosed, therefore untreated, GCA.

    I have had both PMR and GCA.  Had a really difficult journey to diagnosis which saw me in bed for several months and travelling to rheumatology appointments by ambulance and wheelchair.  That experience resolved but it wasn't until the symptoms of what turned out to be GCA arrived on the scene that I was finally diagnosed and treated.  In the 3.5 weeks with the GCA symptoms, my vision was very blurry and it did deteriorate from my previous perfect vision but somehow luckily I'm blessed that I didn't lose it.

    It is unusual that there don't appear to be many GCA sufferers posting on this site, whereas the NE forum has a few who post and the HealthUnlocked forum has many contributors who have GCA, and I'm sure you will find it of benefit being in touch with those suffering similarly.

    Have you been in touch with the RNIB and similar socieities - I am sure they will be able to provide you with a lot of advice?

    I have been in remission from both PMR and GCA for about 2 years, having reduced to zero steroids from a starting dose of 40mg.  It did take some 6+ years to get there.

    I do hope you are under a good rheumatologist - whereabouts are you?

     

  • Posted

    Going both blind and deaf reminds me of my amazing friend with Usher's syndrome who went totally deaf in her 30s, now has tunnel vision and still may become completely blind.  I mention this because there could be another cause for you,  Usher's is just one of many possibilities. 

         Anyway, my friend is a dynamite person whom it is a pleasure to know.  She taught me sign language and she also reads braille.  She said once that you really need to learn braille because if your vision completly goes and you are deaf, you are lost.  Recently she has had painful shoulders too, so I told  her about PMR.  She still speaks and reads lips beautifully, so when I met her I had naively asked her why she had a blind person's cane. 

            So my best idea for you Audrey is contact a blind charity and see if  you can begin to study braille, and contact a deaf institute for help with sign language.  These are both fun to learn, especially sign language, and I feel sure you will enjoy them both. 

  • Posted

    I am so sorry that you have suffered so severely from this awful illness Audrey. You might be out of the woods with your high dose of pred which has probably brought the illness under control. You are entitled to go to whichever specialist centre you wish to attend but as you are in a wheel chair, you probably will attend your most local hospital which might not have a centre of excellence in this speciality. If your eye sight or hearing have been affected already and are further at risk, this is very serious indeed.

    I have the following advice (having had some appalling treatment myself):

    Write a list of questions, such as: How can I prevent further damage to my temporal (and possibly other) arteries? 

    Find an advocate to accompany you to your appointments.

    Put in writing your vasculitis journey

    Record your appointments on a mobile phone so you have a record of the consultation.  

    My prayers are with you. 

     

  • Posted

    I have been fortunate as although since diagnosis I realise I have had the PMR condition for some years ,and only because I saw a different doctor to my usual who gave me blood test did the PMR result become evident . I had never heard of the GCA problem until I came onto this site ,and having recently been sent to our local A and E before diagnosis of PMR because of Eye problems they never mentioned it .Also last week had check with my optition who in her 60s had never heard of it .Makes me despair of our health service . I so wish you well and you make me feel humble . 
  • Posted

    I had symptoms of ME 30 years ago at the time when many doctors thought it did not exist. 5 years ago I developed PMR with painful butt and things but I also had ME like symptoms. Last year, I developed a stab like pain in my right temple and the apex of my head was tender. I also had discomfort in my carotid artery and when I read the symptoms of GCA, I realised previous to all this I had a painful upper right jaw joint. When the prednisone was reduced to 10mg, I had pain in both temples, pain in my heart area, and lost some of my eyesight in both eyes overnight, and when it got down to 2.5mg, I had ringing in my ears, ear ache, head pain, pain in both hip joints, I was unable to walk up or down the street kerb, my right shoulder joint was very painful too. I went up to 10mg by my choice and was told I was in remission because I had all 4 pulses and that I could reduce the dosage quickly which I did. At 4mg I was unable to get out of bed and went up to 8mg by my choice and stayed there for some months. I suspect I have some artery damage which will only reveal itself when I lower the dosage or have another relapse.

    I think the word 'remission' is a misnomer (only the doctors who have been involved in PMR and GCA can misname quite so competently). I prefer the word 'managed' ie controlled through medication.

    I think it's high time patients with PMR and GCA insisted on proper nomenclature as this would save immense confusion amongst not only patients and relatives but nurses and other professionals.

    • Posted

      That is very interesting - as I too had the typical "herald" illness for ME in my mid 20s, nearly 30 years ago. Being really ill lasted for about 6 months and the raised liver enzymes fell well within that time by the time I saw a consultant but the fatigue lasted far longer. It then pretty much disappeared until the PMR started but that was with "GCA" symptoms, claudication mainly although I had scalp pain for a few weeks but which then disappeared. Members of one big PMR/GCA group were surprised, that was something they had never come across before. 

      You are so right about the use of the word "remission" - there are two definitions: one is drug induced and the other is natural. The charities are working hard to educate at all levels and the research group in Leeds is led by 2 consultants who are passionate about that. Things are improving, there is far more awareness than even 5 years ago. Patients participate in medical training, teaching medical students about our side of PMR and GCA, and this does appear to be bearing fruit in that often it is locums or trainee GPs who suspect or identify the illnesses. There is a need to extend this but it requires motivated and committed participation.  A research student is being supported by the NE support group who also have invested in education in the past. 

       

  • Posted

    Morning everyone,  I have just been to my lovely doctor....had a good chat, she put my mind at rest about the unusual symptoms (for me) that I have been having.  I am going to the emergency eye clinic tomorrow....so hopefully will get a reason for the blurred vision!  I am to keep on 20mg pred for two weeks...then 15mg 1month....then wait for it...after reading the (Kirwin and quick paper which I printed out) agreed I could possibly stay on 10mg 6months to a year......she said the protocol is different here in Norfolk, but agreed when reading less relapses it makes more sense!!.....I am also having a bone density scan....I have never been able to tolerate the meds for bone density build up, so will discuss that later, after bone test......have tried allsorts.....but I feel more reassured that it was the Pred, and trying to drop the dosage that it all happened.  My doctor also said, if someone relapses like this, we know to do it more slowly with them....I just wish all doctor`s were as receptive as her.....Hope this info might answer some queries others might have also.........and after reading Audrey`s awful situation, I am just grateful to be going to the eye clinic!  Thanks and good luck everyone with these battles!
  • Posted

    Remission as a medical term has many meanings. What I was told was that due to having a pulse in all 4 limbs that my GCA was 'in remission' and that I could quickly come down from the steroid dosage. Unfortunately, I had pulses and no very serious pain or disability, but this was because the inflammation was under control. I should have remained at the dosage that was clearing the inflammation, not reducing it. A flare up was inevitable. All that a pulse meant was that the artery was not blocked. Blood pressure of 4 limbs and the comparison is of more interest as my were wildly different at the time I was told I was 'in remission'. I tire of the mystification that is being used for inflammation of the arteries. 
  • Posted

    EileenH, I'm told that if you have one auto-immune illness, you might get another and that ME, PMR and GCA are all of that awful ilk.
    • Posted

      Yes, it is certainly more likely that someone who has had or has one autoimmune disorder is more likely to develop another at some point. But I have a suspicion that many these ones which cause joint and tissue damage are expressions of the same or a few disorders and that the name it is given depends on which selection of symptoms came out of the goody bag. Before there were any real means of imaging where the inflammation/damage is or discovering and identifying common autoantibodies it appeared that they were different things. In the last few years several have been renamed, removing, for example, the concept of "Wegener's disease" as a disease and replacing it with the name "Granulomatosis with polyangiitis (GPA)" which links it to other disorders more. The changes have been quite considerable in the vasculitis sector and since PMR/GCA is a vasculitis, hisorically treated by rheumatologists because of the "rheumatic symptoms", it does lag behind. 

      The greatest problem remains the combination of there being no definitive test for PMR/GCA and the reliance of a certain generation of doctors who trained just as laboratory tests were exploding onto the scene on sending away a blood sample. They struggle with the idea of "normal range", believing it is written in stone rather than covering only 95% of a population, forgetting the 2 1/2 % at each end in those little corners. 

      But the "your pulses are fine" comment sounds as if someone was confusing VASCULITIS and VASCULAR DISEASE. Really NOT quite the same thing, although in the long term the first can lead to the second. 

    • Posted

      Its interesting what you say about the different illnesses.  I have had ME for 25 years and Fibromyalgia for the last 10 of those.  When my "lovely" doctor knew things had very much worsened for me..and blood tests showed that she referred me to rheumy (PMR diagnosed)..... the consultant said Fibro and PMR are two completely different illnesses, one is from the spine, and one from the brain!!....work that if you can......
    • Posted

      They are. ME and PMR are almost certainly autoimmune in origin. The original cause of fibromyalgia is not yet known although they think they know what leads to the pain. Although fibro and PMR have a lot of overlapping symptoms, the pain is due to different things.

      In PMR the autoimmune disorder causes inflammation as the immune system attacks your body by mistake, thinking your own cells are invaders likes viruses and bacteria. This causes swelling and that is painful in itself, like an insect bite. In addition, if the blood vessels are affected the space in the middle where the blood flows along narrows, a bit like hard water bungs up the water pipes. This means less blood, and less oxygen gets to the tissue - which matter when you try to exercise and that causes pain.  Because of the inflammation you often get raised ESR and CRP. Pred is one of the most effective antiinflammatory drugs available and it works in PMR, very little else does although a few of the newer drugs appear to help some people. They are mega expensive though and some can have some very nasty side effects. Some of the latest research is suggesting HOW it works in PMR and GCA - pred affects white cells called neutrophils, neutrophils have been found in the areas affected by GCA inflammation, pred probably inactivates them somehow. Knowing this may make it possible to find drugs that target that more specifically.

      In fibromyalgia for some reason your brain isn't able to process the pain signals it receives normally. Some researchers think that there is some tissue damage originally, like bruises or overworked muscles, that signal their pain but the brain has become very sensitive to it and magnifies how bad it is - I'm not saying you are imagining it or exaggerating what you feel, the brain is just getting too many signals and so what you feel is out of proportion to the damage. I have no idea why your consultant mentioned the spine as it has nothing to do with either PMR or fibro except all nerve signals to the brain go via the spine I suppose. Sensation and sight are the same in that sense - the eye receives the image in the form of light but it is the brain that interprets it just like the skin is in contact with the hot water but the brain works out what it is. Anyway - it is not inflammation in fibro and ESR and CRP are never raised. That is how your GP knew there was something else going on. Pred does nothing for fibro pain although there are some drugs that can help it.

      In all these sort of diseases the symptoms may overlap - as you know ME and fibro and PMR have some things in common whilst also having things that are "their own". In some cases the diagnosis is made as "overlap syndrome" or "overlap connective tissue disorder" - an autoimmune disorder with symptoms of one or more recognised illnesses. That is what often makes diagnosis so difficult because while experts know about this it isn't part of the bedtime reading for the average GP and unless they have seen someone with this before they may not realise it can exist. Most practices are unlikely to see more than a couple of GCA cases over years, I know GPs who have seen 1 in a career of 30 years. Some of the disorders are classified as vasculitis, some as connective tissue disease (muscles, ligaments, tendons) and a rheumy may not recognise the vasculitis ones although a vasculitis specialist may recognise the rheumatic ones. The trouble is - there is a desperate shortage of vasculitis specialists and they are in only a few highly specialised centres. I know one patient who travels from Scotland to Cambridge to see her specialist. It isn't only the UK where it is so - it is a relatively new area. Unless you can go to the Mayo, Johns Hopkins or the Cleveland clinics in the USA the doctors often struggle just as much there too - and it costs you personally a lot of money when they get it not quite right.

    • Posted

      Wow, thank you Eileen....I think you need to go round the country and lecture to those with less knowledge than yourself.  One thing though...having had Fibro/ME for so many years, and knew every symptom possible, I immediately knew something was different when I got the PMR symptoms.......I was so elated to think I could at last take a drug and be treated!......but I had no idea the struggle I would have with the Pred....but I`m determined to get the balance right and come off it with the correct tapering...and the support of my doctor...thank you.

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