Good alternative to remeron

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Hi everyone. I am a newbie to this forum. I have been struggiling with mental health problems for about six years, most of that time has gone untreated by professionals. I have also had a few diffrent diagnoses along the way. In tried anti depressants a couple of times but would just quit after the first day because i did not want to feel drowsy and thought it would always be like that. Things got so bad that i was ready to commit suicide. My problems are anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorder and panick attacks. I was put on mertazapine on friday and so far have took 4 doses. I am in a 12 step recovery programme for food addiction. I am in a tough spot, last night i relapsed into binge eating behaviours because the mertazapine is making me feel so hungry all the time. Its not just after i take the pill at night but all day aswell . I am on 15mgs. I have sufferd through years of anorexia, bulimia and compulsive overeating. So a medication that messes with anythign to do with food. Is just a no go for me. Its a shame because already the obsessions thats were dominating me have been minimized so much. But if i go into full blown relapse into food addiction, no pill on the planet could make me feel better with that. I have huge physcological problems with distorted body image which braught on my anorexia to start with. Today i am actualy not feeling as hungry as yesterday but it is still there. I would try and hold on to see if it passes but after reading all the posts on the net. I havent found one person say it ever goes away. I have tried venlafaxine for a week before and prozac for a couple of weeks both of then made my anxiety worse and gave me insomnia. So now i am scared of the anti depressants with stimulant like effects. Ironically they same to be the ones that do not cause increased apatite although i had the same hunger on the venlafaxine. Can any one please give me some advice, as i said im in the darkest place ive ever been in my life, is there any other anti depressant anybody could recommend for me ? Please help guys. Kind regards sasha

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  • Posted

    I should have added, i am currently on 26 mgs of methadone due to addiction issues . I have reduced down from 45mgs and because i have been havig sleepless nights and restless legs syndrome,my doc has prescribe me amatriptyline 10mgs to be taken at night along side my mertazapine, i was thinking if i stop the mertazapine i could take my amatriptyline to help me sleep untill i get a new anti depressant, but i dont know?? Help lol
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  • Posted

    I was thinking i could take my amatriptyline 10mgs at night if i quit the mertazapine to help me sleep untill i find a new anti d ?
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    • Posted

      Hi Sasha

      So sorry for your suffering.  Straight away I have to say -

      "f you can resist anything but temptation" as the proverb goes, Mirt' could well be unhelpful for you.  It stimulates the appetite, makes it difficult to lose weight and has a slow release sedative which lasts pretty much all day - so it's excellent for anxiety and sleep aid, VG for anorexia to help one to eat, and maybe even good for your OCD.

      I cannot recommend another AD, but I'm sure there is one out there for you.  I think you'd be good to use the Amatriptyline for sleep in the meanwhile, quite why any doctor would give Mirt' to anyone with food addiction makes me shake my head in disbelief, my gain is 20 lbs in a year, and usually I can be very controlled.

      Wishing you well, you need a break and I hope things come right for you soon.

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    • Posted

      I would like to thankyou both for your very helpfull comments. With anorexia, it all stems from a fear of weight gain and distorted body image, we can eat without any meds the fact is we are terrified to gain weight. I came out of anorexia over half a decade ago and moved into bulimia and then more recent just straight up compulsive over eating. Which sadly had been abstinent from and now because of the mert i have relapsed into full swing i am sat here binging right now. The anoying thing is it has been so good for my ocd and sleeping and general anxiety. But my abstinence in food addicts anonymous must come above everything because without abstinence there is nothing to live for. So i am not going to take the mert tonight. Im going to take my amatriptyline for sleep. I also have some zopiclone from an old prescription that i saved but i doubt that 4 doses of mert will stop me sleeping because i havent been taking the amatriptyline along side it. So it will if you like substitute the sleep aid i was getting from the mert. Amatriptyline is 10mgs i here it is good for sleep at a lower dose snd dosent act as an anti deperrsant . But who knows it might even help my anxiety and obsessions. smile thanks again for your replys. Sorry about my spelling . Im a dreadfull speller. Sasha

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  • Posted

    Mirtazapine is a very useful med for treating anorexia to help the patient eat more and put on weight. But I would think it is the last thing you need if you have a food addiction because it causes strong sugar cravings and weight gain in most people. I is however the best anti depressant for sleeping and for working very quickly compared to most.
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    • Posted

      I would like to thankyou both for your very helpfull comments. With anorexia, it all stems from a fear of weight gain and distorted body image, we can eat without any meds the fact is we are terrified to gain weight. I came out of anorexia over half a decade ago and moved into bulimia and then more recent just straight up compulsive over eating. Which sadly had been abstinent from and now because of the mert i have relapsed into full swing i am sat here binging right now. The anoying thing is it has been so good for my ocd and sleeping and general anxiety. But my abstinence in food addicts anonymous must come above everything because without abstinence there is nothing to live for. So i am not going to take the mert tonight. Im going to take my amatriptyline for sleep. I also have some zopiclone from an old prescription that i saved but i doubt that 4 doses of mert will stop me sleeping because i havent been taking the amatriptyline along side it. So it will if you like substitute the sleep aid i was getting from the mert. Amatriptyline is 10mgs i here it is good for sleep at a lower dose snd dosent act as an anti deperrsant . But who knows it might even help my anxiety and obsessions. smile thanks again for your replys. Sorry about my spelling . Im a dreadfull speller. Sasha
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  • Posted

    Hi Sasha, 

    I am so sorry you are going through this hell!  I agree, mirt is the last drug you need to be on.  I am also a recovering bulimic with a history of distorted body image, and I have been on antidepressants for 19 years.  I would say the first 12 of those years I was still actively bulimic, so they really didn't do anything to change that.  I think the reason I finally quit is that I felt so horribly after purging, and developed a pain in my side that scared me to death.  I dreaded going to the doctor about it and admitting that I had done this to myself.  I also have acid refulx bad from doing it, and knew that if I kept going I would really damage myself.  

    Thankfully, I have never allowed myself to get more than 15 pounds overweight, or I'm sure I'd be right back at it.

    My last drug was Effexor, and last year I went off too fast.  I suffered from protracted withdrawal for 10 months, not realizing what was happening  I went to my p-doc out of desperation in a horrid depression where I felt I couldn't go on like that.  I couldn't eat, lost weight, couldn't sleep and couldn't get off the couch.  H prescribed mirt, saying it was a gentle AD that would help with sleep and inappetence.  He knew I was a recovering bulimic.  He did NOT tell me that this drug has the side effect of signifcant weight gain!  I am so angry that he put me on this drug!  It ended up not evening working for the depression, probably because I was still in WD from Effexor.  Regardless, it pooped out on me at nearly the highest dose and six weeks later I was back on Effexor.  Now I understand what was happening and am flipping angry that I am now on two ADs rather than one!  I am doing a micro taper to get off both.

    I didn't really gain weight from mirt for the first couple of months.  When I expressed my concerns after researching this drug, my doc said that people with eating disorders usually didn't have a problem because they had the control to not over-eat!  My god, how naive was I to accept that explanation!  I have now gained back 8-9 lb which may not sound like much to most but to a person like you and me it is huge!

    So, I would say run from this one!

    I don't know what to tell you about any other med that will help.  I think they are all ultimately a band-aid with their own negative impact despite the possible benefit.  I have bone loss that has caused my gums to receed greatly, due to night time grinding and daytime clenching caused by ADS.  I pick my skin more than I ever did before meds.  I developed insomnia worse than I can remember before drugs.  And my memory in general is quit negatively impacted.  I could go on and on with other side effects that came on subtly so I didn't attribute them to side effects.

    It sounds like you have yet to find the right therapist.  Cognitive behavior therapy, with the right person, will do more to change your life for the positive than these meds.  Sure, lots of people out there saying they changed their life and they couldn't live with out them.  It sounds like you've tried others and they didn't help. 

    My dear, it has taken me until 50 to finally learn about myself and learn that I have it in my power to change my thinking patterns.  We have thought patterns that we learned from way back, circuits if you will that we automatically default to in times of stress, and we tend to think we can never change, but in truth we can!  

    I was always one to think negatively.  No self-esteem, always comparing myself to others, always feeling inferior, always worrying about what others think, always fretting over the future, always ruminating over the past, looking at what a failrure I was rather than considering my successes and positive attributes.  I thought I could never change.  I felt I was a victim of poor parenting, that if only my folks had done things differently I'd be a more successful human being.  Well, that may be true, but what's done is done and all we have is this moment!  And, we can't predict the future so there's no point in fretting over that.  We only have right now :-)

    I'm going to message you with some links to stuff that has helped me, so check your messages :-)

    Heck, if I can change my thinking and way of going for the better, so can you! And just so you know, this isn't about religion.

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    • Posted

      Hi betsy, i got plenty of identification with what you shared. With the way you had felt about yourself. It sounds like you have the same experience with effexor that i did. I did not slee once in a week. It was horrible. So i quit . Thats what i was saying about the ad's that have a stimulant effect liked effexor. They make my anxiety worse. I am thinkig of asking him if he could try a drug called paxil. I think that is another with sedative effect. Ive heard some people gain weight. But i can give it ago. As long as it dosnet make me feel like i am physically hungry in my stomach like the mert did. It didint matter what i ate i just felt hungry all the time. I quit yesterday and all the obsessions and anxiety have come back today. Not as bad . Maybie the amatriptyline is helping i dont know. Kind regards sasha
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  • Posted

    My advice is to stay away from Mirt. The withdraws alone from that med will put you into the states that you are already describing. I have been off of Mirt. for 69 days and still have stomach issues among other things. I went cold turkey on 15 mg after taking it for a year and a half. I went down from 30 mg and couldn't take the withdraws so I just quit. I cannot explain the hell I have been going through. I wish I had some advice on what med you should try but I don't. But I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt to stay away from Mirt. Best wishes!
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    • Posted

      Hi Monica, 

      Wow, what an accomplishment to come off mirt 30 cold turkey for 69 days!  You are a strong one!  I've known many that couldn't handle it and went back on!  Have you had emotional withdrawal symptoms?  It is a bear to come off of!  If only the docs told us about that before prescribing, yet they don't even acknowledge that WD happens most of the time!

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    • Posted

      Hi Betsy,

      I had lowered my dose down from 30 mg to 15 mg for two weeks but I stopped right after that. I was having such bad withdraws that I almost did go back on them. After the 6th day (with nothing but water and supplements) I had clarity of mind. That was huge for me because up until that point I couldn't differenciate the difference between the two or have the respond separately. If my body was going crazy, so was my head.

      Now the withdraws are the worst experience I've had. The night sweats, nightmares, tremors, leg spasms, diarrhea, vomiting every morning, stomach always hungry and hurting, anxiety, panic attacks, empathy, apathy, extreme fatique to the point of barely moving. I'm sure there's a few more. Bad, bad stuff when coming off PERIOD!

      I am now only on Klonopin .5 mg twice a day and now I am worried about the withdraws from these being benzodiazepines. I still feel the withdraws could not compare to Mirt. 

      I have been on antidepressants before and have never had these kind of symptoms before. Maybe it's different for everyone but I have seen a correlation between all of the people on this forum getting off this drug and how serious the WD symptoms are. 

      Best wishes to all of you on here who are dealing with the struggle. It will take time. Work on your health during this process and stay away from stimulants, sugar or anything that might affect your mental health. I take gaba, passion flower, B complex, magnesium and whatever else I have researched that might help.

      Time is the biggest healer and things that help your mental health. I'm a firm believer that you can retrain your brain. Meditation, journaling, diet, finding your "why" in life, setting goals and the most important thing for me was pushing myself out the door no matter how bad it got so I could stay out of my head and keep a routine and a sense of purpose. 

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    • Posted

      Hi Monica, 

      Wow, you are a strong and courageous gal to tough it out as you have!  You basically did a cold turkey!  

      I am with you on the brain-retraining.  I think one of the hardest things people deal with in withdrawal is getting so distressed over their experience, because they feel like it might never end and they ruminate over the what ifs and feel they just can't go on.  Recovering from these drugs is absolutely possible, so everyone, just know that it won't last forever; you will get better, it just takes time.   And I will reiterate the windows and waves pattern of recovery.  You may feel better for a time and they go down again, but there will be another window, and they will last longer and longer until finally you are done!

      I have read of people finding that they can think so clearly, see life so clearly, experience colors and visual clarity like they can't remember when they get off drugs.  I think the suffering through withdrawal leads us to appreciating life all the more on the other side!

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    • Posted

      Thanks monica, i quit yesterday i had only taken it for 4 nights and last night and this morning my anxiety and obsessions had all cane back. Its a shame because the mirt was realy good on my anxiety. If only it did not mess with my food addiction!
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  • Posted

    I have decided to quit the mert . I did not take my dose last night. I took 10mgs of amatriptylin. If it hadent been for that indo t think i would have slept at all. I was havin all sorts of horrible nightmares. Hey were that bad that i did not want to go back to sleep. I think it was the mert coming out my system. Either that or it was the amatriptyline. I now have to wait 3 weeks fto see my gp again. ( my gp took control, because the a**hole i was seing physciatrist, would prescribe meds and if they did not agree with me, would make me wait a quater of a year to see him to try something else) which p*ssed me off because all he did was write another script and say try this one. Which was 30 seconds of his time and im waiting a quater of a year for that) . I was like heloooo im suicidal here. In the uk the nhs is ridiculous, its like they wait for someone to kill them self and then realise they needed serious help. The gp is a lovely caring man. I think i should add ( the amatriptyline was for restless legg syndrome which was causing me not to sleep ) so he prescribed that along with the mert. Which is nice of him because im an x drug addict i find doctors wont give me anything. So far juding from the anti depresants ive tried i find prozac and effexor to be like speed and made me so much worse. Mert was great for anxiety but is a no go for the food problems. So i was wondering if anyone had any experience with paxil? I know that is sedative like and is newer than mert so im thinkig of asking him to try that one out ?
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  • Posted

    Hi Sasha, 

    I was doing some research on mirt and it does block receptors that have to do with drug addiiction so helps with that (very over-simplified explanation).  However, it isn't clear to me if that is only at higher doses.  Mirt is a paradoxical one because it has a huge histamine blocking affect at the lower doses that seems to be lessened at higher doses.  What's strange about mirt is that it affects a whole bunch of different types of receptors in a sort of cascade depending on dose; lower doses affect certain ones, and then as the dose goes up, it starts to block others.

    I'm wondering if taking a low low dose might be helpful to you without impacting your hunger so much.  I can't be sure, though.  I was started on 7.5 mg which is below what is considered the minimum therapeutic dose (15 mg) and slept like the dead! I had to break a 15 mg in half for that. It makes me wonder what starting with 1/4 of that would be like.  As others have said, though, it is a bear to get off of once your body is used to it.

    I fear that any drug that has a more sedating affect might have weight gain as a side affect.  At least you have the web to do research on each one and see what the side effect list is. I wish you luck in finding something that will help.

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    • Posted

      Thanks bettsy. For some reason i have been on a few meds that have weight gain as a side effect for example methadone ( which im still on 26mgs and reducing fortnightly( and quitapine. And i never gain any weight. So i think my body is good that way. However it was the side effect with mert that inwas constantly physically hungry in ny stomach even after a decent size moderate nutrisous meal it would not go away. I have to adhere to a special food plan of food addicts anonymous that excludes sugar , flour and wheat. But on the mert i broke it and binged every day because of this hunger i just couldint wait to my next meal. I stopped taking it yesterday and just took amatriptyline 10mgs last night. I had the most horrible nights sleep i kept on falling back into the same nightmare and they were realy intense and scary today i have some flu like symptoms and i only took mert for 4 days. So im goin to try out a younger sri maybie zolof or paxil or something see how i go. The only others i have tried are prozac and venlafaxine and they were horrible. Especially the venlefax wooow i felt like i was on ecstacy and never slept a wink for a whole week. Then felt like i wanted to kill my self wen instopped it !! So im kinda scared now of stimulant meds because the 2 ive tried were so bad !! I have to wait 3 weeks tonsee the doc again. Which i think is ridiculous , when all they do is write a script it takes 30 secs of there time and i have explained how close ove been to just ending it all. !
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