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Has anyone out there had a "Prostate Artery Embolization??

Posted , 210 users are following.

ChuckP
ChuckP

I had one on September 10th, 2014 and would love to compare notes with anyone else that has had one.   Thank You.  ChuckP   PS Some people just call it a "PAE" for short.

8 likes, 2499 replies

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  • martin_victor
    martin_victor ChuckP

    Posted

    Hi Chuck: I have been on Nettle Root for 3 months along with Crataeva Stem Bark which improves bladder function. I have had the Gat Goren procedure with embolization of the internal spermatic veins around 25 months ago. But my real improvement seems to be coming from the 5 ml daily Nettle Root. I was diagnosed with a 50 gram prostate with medial lobe protrusion into the bladder. With the nettle root I get up once a night. So many researchers have written on the cause of BPH. I have explored this subject for more than 10 years. This is the best explanation I have gotten from an M.D.. who advises body building supplement makers who wish to offer higher levels of testosterone to their audience. It might be difficult to understand for the novice not attuned to the biochemistry of this problem...but one can learn!

    "Estrogen, the essential evil stepsister becomes the dominant player as we age and also offers rationale into why prostate woes increase with age. Interestingly enough 5 alpha reductase activity actually calms down as we age as testosterone declines on the order of 10% per decade past about age 25. The finger of guilt has alway been pointed in the right direction.

    We have learned a LOT about the impact of estrogen in the pathophysiology over the course of the last 10-15 years. In order for estrogen to impart effect, Estrogen has to stick to SHBG while this protein is attached to the prostate cell membrane. This linkage between E2 (Estradiol) and SHBG while attached to the prostate cell membrane directs IGF-1 (amongst other types of insulin like growth factor) to stimulate the actual growth of prostate cells and increase the volume of DHT receptors (but this is till moot with less substrate.)

    Obviously, Nettle root extract binding to SHBG would halt this entire process because the linkage to E2 on the prostate cell membrane wouldn't happen. There is also a mild anti-E effect (in the form of an aromatose inhibitor) from nettle root that is gaining further acceptance. Additionally, there is a loss of DHT receptor concentration with less E2 available and perhaps more importantly, less E2-SHBG combos floating around.

    Nettle root has truly been a successful prostate treatment and I would assume if the projected mechanaism that dictate pathophysiology are correct and hair loss (androgenic alopeica) follows suit - this is a completely moot point.

    Information from: Dana Houser, MD, MHSA, CISSN (Industry author and Product Development Consultant)

    • ChuckP
      ChuckP martin_victor

      Posted

      Hi Martin Victor;  Are you saying that "nettle root" causes "hair loss"??? I would like to keep my nice head of hair.  So back to the nettle root for a minute- how many times a night are you getting up to the bathroom??? What "exactly" does the nettle root do???  What is considered a "normal sized prostate"???    If yours is 50 grams that doesn't sound too terribly large but Iam no expert.  I have had a PAE with no success regarding the bathroom. The only thing it did accomplish is Iam no off of the Avodart and Tamsulosin which were real sex killers.  My sex life has returned to normal- Thank the Good Lord above.  Hope to hear more from you.  Take Care.  Where do you live???  Iam in the USA- in Nebraska.
    • martin_victor
      martin_victor ChuckP

      Posted

      Chuck: Nettle root helps you keep your hair. It is an aromatase  inhibitor, preventing the conversion of testosterone to estradiol. Nettle Root has an affinity for SHBG.  SHBG is a hormone which transports testosterone, dht and estradiol in the bloodstream . Stinging nettle  displaces estradiol (E2) which causes prostate enlargement when it attaches to receptors on the prostate. BPH is more a problem of location, location, location. Some people can have problems with 40 gram prostates and others not with 100 gram prostates. It depends if it is constricting on the urethra, pressing or plugging on the bladder neck.
    • ChuckP
      ChuckP martin_victor

      Posted

      I think I will try some nettle root.  How much and how often do you take it???   How long have you been on it???  Any other helpful info would be appreciated.
    • caringbah
      caringbah ChuckP

      Posted

      Chuck , I now take 3 nettle root caps a day. initially I took 10 but found it was upsetting my stomach.so backed off. I have only been on it for two weeks but found it made a big difference after only one week. They get upset if you mention brand names here but just check out the user reviews on the big online retailers and you'll be able to decide. In oz I couldn't find any chemists  or healt food places that stock it so bought it online. 
    • derek76
      derek76 ChuckP

      Posted

      Finasteride is used for androgenetic alopecia in men and  benign prostatic hyperplasia 

       The prostate should be the size of a walnut.

    • stewarta
      stewarta martin_victor

      Posted

      Thank you for your post concerning Stinging Nettle Root Extract (SNRE) and its effects. I have a moderately enlarged prostate, but a low PSA at 2.7. That's low by comparison with a cancer patient I heard of yesterday with a PSA of 200. I've researched both Gat-Goren and PAE, and am aware of Dr Glen Schlaphoff's work in this area in Sydney, Australia. (I live in Melbourne).

      I have experienced nocturia (3-4 times a night) and the stinging that can come at the end of urinating. I started taking SNRE (240 mg) and the symptoms went away almost immediately. I then added Saw Palmetto (320 mg) and had bowel pain, seeming constipation,and a return of the BPH symptoms but not the nocturia. So I have decided to stop taking the Saw Palmetto oil for a while to be sure this was the cause.

  • Roseland
    Roseland ChuckP

    Posted

    I had PAE at Southampton in August 2013.  Instead of getting up 5, 6 or 7 times a night I now generally sleep right through 8 or 9 hours.  More importantly, on the few occasions I do have to get up (tea late at night!) I get back to sleep immediately, instead of lying there thinking "I need to go again soon".  

    At my one-year check, my prostate had shrunk from 150ml to 74ml, my peak flow had more than doubled and my PSA gone from a peak of 12 down to 2.4.  I have no adverse effects whatsoever.  

    A note to anyone having the procedure:  The evening of the day after I had it done, I developed a fever and shivers for about two hours, as my body was getting rid of the dying cells.  If I had known to expect this it would have been nicer!

    PAE has been life-changing for me, and I am eternally grateful to my urologist Jon Dyer and the interventional radiologists Nigel Hacking and Tim Bryant.

    • bruce19007
      bruce19007 Roseland

      Posted

      It took more than a week for me to see and significant dying cells.  How long was it before you had the flow restored?  I had my PAE in November 14 and I have had only limited improvement.  I still need the Flowmax, but now only get up once a night.  Are you on any medication anymore?
    • Roseland
      Roseland bruce19007

      Posted

      I showed good response within a month.  YMMV.

      I'm not no any prostate medication, just for blood pressure.

    • Geoff019
      Geoff019 Roseland

      Posted

      Hello Roseland. I live in the NW of England and wonder if you would be so kind as to answer a few questions regarding PAE.

      Firstly are the trials at Southampton University Hospital still ongoing and if they do you need to live within their area ?. I have had BPH since I was 59. I am now 67.

      Thanks 

      Some background to my experience :-

      I have refused TURP on several occasions.. My Urologist said my prostate was to large for Urolift I think it is approx 115g. When I mentioned PAE he pored scorn on that also. I am now scheduled to have a biopsy in early Feb after having an MRI. They said there was one area they could not see properly so advise the biopsy. My psi has steadily risen over 8 years from 4.5 to a current 7.8.After reading this Forum I am not totally convinced about the Biopsy but it's hard to go against advice from professionals.

      My symptoms do not seem as bad as some on here on average I have to get up 1-2  times a night occasionally 3-4 times.I was originally prescribed Hytrin and Xatral (alfuzosin hydrochloride) but quickly quit to former because of adverse affects regarding erections.

      The xatral is less inhibiting but causes retrograde ejaculation. 

      Like many others I imagine, I often scroll the internet looking for new inovations to end this scourge of man that doe's not involve being 'butchered'

      Regards

      Geoff019

       

    • Roseland
      Roseland Geoff019

      Posted

      I've just PM'd you with my phone number as there's too much to type.

      My own experience with PAE has been fabulous and I recommend it!

      If anyone else wants to discuss it in more detail then feel free to PM me too.

    • arlington
      arlington Roseland

      Posted

      Hi Roseland,

      Did you have an enlarged median lobe?

      Thanks and good luck!

    • Roseland
      Roseland arlington

      Posted

      I guess not.  It seems PAE doesn't work too well for that condition.

      All the best,

      Andrew

    • caringbah
      caringbah Geoff019

      Posted

      Geoff, you have made the right choice in refusing TURP. My PSA was around 10. My GP sent me to a urologist who reccomended biopsy. Biopsy showed no cancer but that's when my troubles began...I had great difficulty in urinating. Long story short...I rejected the advice of three urologists to have....TURP, holep, open surgery. I went for PAE which was highly successful. 

      So I get really mad when I hear of urologists pouring scorn on PAE...they are just trying to protect their turf. They have had a monopoly on the prostate franchise for so long , they panic when something that threatens their monopoly turns up. 

      I am in remission from lymphoma. My oncologist and I have a very good relationship and talk about just about anything. He told me he refuses to have any form of prostate testing including PSA. He cited a study of over 20, 000 men who were divided into two groups. One group had no testing whatsoever and the other group had the full deal...PSA tests, biopsies etc.

      In the end it turned out that there was virtually no difference between the two groups. 

      Which group had the least stress? 

      Which group did the urologists love most. 

      Geoff, think long and hard about which group you want to be in. 

      Cheers 

    • Roseland
      Roseland caringbah

      Posted

      I agree TURP is brutal (just ask to see a resectoscope!).  

      I've had two biopsies.  The first - transrectal - had me admitted to hospital as an emergency with septacaemia for four days.  The second - transperineal - caused my prostate to swell and I had to be catheterised.  Then I got a CAUTI which took three months to go, ending with nurses coming each day to put me on a Gentamycin drip.  Oh, and I couldn't pee unless I'd just had a hot bath.

      I only know one other person who's had a transrectal biopsy, and he also got septacaemia.

      My advice - steer clear of biopsies at all cost.  A 3 tesla Multiparametric MRI with show better than a biopsy if you have a problem anyway.

      Andrew

    • j12080
      j12080 arlington

      Posted

      I had a very large median lobe in the transitional zone and it was also into my bladder. Had FLA 34 days ago and I am now total free of BPH symptoms and the biggest benefit is the very much improved sexual functions. I am so glad I went this way it was best for me. Size was 125cc. Nocturia is gone. Ejaculation is more than double. Get up once a night and pee 400 to 500 cc about every 5 hours during the day now. Stream is like 45. Dr. said should improve more of the 60 days. My question now is, how could it improve?
    • bob120
      bob120 j12080

      Posted

      I thought FLA was only approved for cancerous tumors of the prostate.
    • arlington
      arlington j12080

      Posted

      Thanks j12080.  Who was your Dr. for the FLA?
    • j12080
      j12080 arlington

      Posted

      I used Doctor Kara man ian and Waser. Interventional Radiologists not urologist. Absolutely Great. Give dr. k a call and he will answer any questions you have on any of the treatments he does not charge for any of it and he will consult with you as long and as many call as you make. he will call you back if he is in a procedure. You can look at the thread I placed at "Going with Focal Laser Ablation for BPH". I started it before the procedure and kept posting through recovery. you are also welcome to personal message me and I can give you much more information to help you. The improvement happened almost overnight at 3 weeks in. I suffered from BPH for eight years. I studied the procedures for 20 months visiting the offices of 7 different doctors. I went to Virginia to see Bagla. I went to North Carolina to see Isaacson. I went to see Busch. I went to see Dr karaman ian and Walsr, I went to see Clause Rhomberg on both Urolift and Greenlight. I study Hifu and HoLEP at Mayo. Then in early December I had to make a decision and could wait no longer.

    • j12080
      j12080 bob120

      Posted

      Bob, sorry I did not mean to not answer you. Focal Laser Ablation is FDA approved no matter what part of the body or what procedure it is for. The issue is not FDA approval it is one of insurance coverage. Insurance and medicare does not cover FLA for PCa (prostate cancer) or for BPH. This is more about the hard lobbying that is being and has been done by the Urological groups to block out IR. The same fact are ture about the PAE procedure. Uologist do not want Interventional Radiologist in there "play pen" of men's prostate issues. All of this will change with time. PAE is closer as it has had the registered paid for Clinical Trial and papers written about it. The IR doctor I used is about to do (next month) the first Clinical Trial on BPH using FLA.

      FLA on the other hand is even older for prostate cancer than PAE is for BPH and will also be approved faster than for BPH. FLA for cancer is an absolutely wonderful procedure if you have low to intermediate grade cancer which is Gleason 7 or below. For BPH, it has not been a much used procedure. FLA is absolutely the same procedure for both PCa and BPH. The IR practicioners found out that FLA done in the Transistional Zone of the prostate would clear up the BPH symptoms. Why, because it was relieving the stricture (pinching) of the Urethra. They also found that they could greatly effect the shape of the Bladder by removing the median lobe pressing up on the bladder in the part of the transitional zone of the gland. 

      This is what actually did hapen in my case. It work just like the strategy the doctor drew up. Insurance did not pay for it but it was worth 5 times the money to me. I am about to retire and life will be much happier around my house. 

       

      If the insurance industry makes it, it will be approved one day. Lobbies are powerful groups. Urology is a hugh industry and is many times bigger and more powerful than IR> 

      I hope this answered your question, if not just ask and I will try to help with more of a better answer. 

       John

    • bob120
      bob120 j12080

      Posted

      John, thanks very much for the information on FLA. It looks like a promising treatment because it does not burn or cut out the prostatic urethra like a Green light laser or Turp does. Did Dr. K tell you anything about the possibility of regrowth of the prostate or how long the procedure would last? I've had 2 Greenlights and a Turp in the last 4-1/2 years. Prior to my turp almost 2 years ago my prostate was 313g. 6 months after my turp my prostate was still 203g. I've been taking dutasteride to shrink the prostate for a little over a year and it is now 222g. My PVR is good and I have no trouble urinating, but my prostate continues to grow. I'm 70 and was perfectly healthy a year ago, then got diagnosed with afib and leukemia this year. I weigh 195, was always active and never smoked, so go figure. You never know when things can go downhill. Best of luck to you and enjoy your retirement. Thanks for sharing your story.

    • j12080
      j12080 bob120

      Posted

      Wow Bob,never let it be said that you are not one h**l of a fighter. That is a lot to be dealing with. 

      Yes, I chose FLA because it is very specific, accurate, and focal in the tissue removal. Specific in the fact that they select in a visual plan on the 3TMRI prior to anything else of what tissue needs to be ablated and where it needs to be done in the prostate with a specific path for the laser to travel to and from the point of removal within the prostate. With five specific removal locations in my prostate.  The FLA procedure is accurate in the fact that they removed the tissue up to and within a few millimeters of the urethra and then outward  to form a controlled channel where  tissue was removed along three sides of my urethra. The procedure is focused in that they actually have a realtime “eyes on” procedure and watch everything while they are doing it on both the computer that is running the procedure and the 3TMRI.  I always liked the idea of the Doctor actually watching the procedure so he can see what he is trimming and especially what he is not trimming inside my prostate. 

      I also did not want a procedure that was done in and through the Urethra. I did not like the idea of the procedure going into and then back through the urethra into the prostate to remove tissue. Much less blood and clots if you do not go through the urethra. FLA is rectal. 

      Regarding regrowth, there is no long term data supporting the logic of longevity of the procedure but in theory, it makes a lot of common sense from the standpoint that this procedure coagulates tissue. It does not cut tissue. It melts tissue then your white blood cells march in and carry the melted tissue out. Your prostate then reshapes itself based on the voided area. Inside the walls of those voided areas they are like a burn scar and new BPH tissue will not grow to that scared tissue. This does not mean your prostate gland will stop growing and it does not stop growing with any current procedure. But, it won’t grow in the same spot it was removed as the prostate growth is a issue of cell reproduction multiplying within the gland. Again this is theory logic and we don’t know yet. Lot’s to be learned by all these Doctors in all these procedures. But they think FLA will give a longer results. 

      I can tell you that my main objective in a procedure was to get BPH symptom relief but NOT at the cost of my sexual functions. I had suffered without take those medicines that the Urologist want to give me but said they would not want to take them because of side sexual effects. I studied my prostate anatomy and then outline what each procedure might do to each component of my gland. I knew that FLA and PAE were the best hope for no sexual side effects. 

      Good luck my friend and my prayers. Keep on fighting.  

    • bob120
      bob120 j12080

      Posted

      Thanks for all the additional info . FLA seems like the cutting edge procedure for bph (no pun intended). Best of luck.
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