Heberden's Nodes, Osteoarthrities and Prednisolone

Like you, I have had Heberden's Nodes for many years so nothing to do with PMR or the steroids.

Litozin: A few years ago I read an article that my rheumatologist had written extolling the virtues of rosehips for arthritis so perhaps they could help with your knee osteoarthritis if at any time the glucosamine fails to give relief. Sadly he told me that rosehips would not help with PMR!

As for the horses, my Mum used to swear by a linament (the name escapes me) for her knee pain which I'm sure was also used on horses!

MrsO

I too have these nodes on the distal joint of both index fingers. However - interestingly enough I'd been intending to post a question about them.

It was the development of them, first on the left hand and then, later, on the right together with sometimes excruciatingly sharp pains in the joint, especially when the joint was being bent, that sent me to the GP and a rheumatologist the first time, about 5 years ago - but some considerable time after they first appeared. I also had pain in my left knee, the one I damaged when I broke my leg skiing and it felt as if there was something stuck sometimes when I tried to bend it which would give way suddenly and it would then bend OK. There was sometimes a similar sensation in the forefinger joints.

At the time the rheumy examined me and announced it was osteoarthritis, she could feel it and there was nothing to be done. No X-rays or anything else and all the other symptoms I mentioned (which have proven to be PMR related) were ignored as irrelevant. However - I was not osteoporitic prior to PMR being diagnosed last year (don't know now since steroids).

Over time the node on the right hand became more pronounced than that on the left and the sharp pains appeared in other joints of my fingers. Within a few weeks of being started on steroids last year the sharp pains in the finger joints had gone and after a few months I noticed the knee discomfort which had improved markedly much earlier with glucosamine and chondroitin (1500mg and 400mg per day, respectively) had now disappeared completely. It was some surprise a month or so ago that I realised the node on the left had almost disappeared and the one on the right is noticeably smaller.

So - how does that fit in with the definition of Heberdens nodes you gave?

And vets? They have to be better at clinical diagnosis than MBChBs - their patients can't talk. They tend to be far less sceptical about herbal and physical remedies (they are seen to be effective so they use them, don't need the same very expensive clinical trials as we humans). It's now being realised that lots of grandma's remedies weren't just fluff. And all over mainland Europe herbal remedies and physical therapies are used within the healthcare services because good results are obtained in relief of pain and discomfort.

I'm off to S Korea in a couple of weeks to a symposium/workshop about acupuncture and I'm very much looking forward to hearing what the group there has to show us. Some renowned scientists from Europe have been invited to discuss how something that has been found can be measured using recognised technology and techniques. I refuse to consign everything that is not traditional Western medicine to the bin just because it is different.

looking forward to more,

EileenH

Ive been telling you for ages that things used on my horses work better !!!!

My 33 year old horse has a Glucosomine based supplement and she is on a daily painkiller for her Arthritis When I started her on the painkiller I thought I might as well stop the supplement ( they are very expensive when you give horse sized measures !!) but after a few weeks realised she was stiffer so back to the supplement

The most common painkiller for horses Phenylbutazone (Bute ) used to be obtained from somewhere I kept my horses by an elderly retired local Dr to treat his Arthritis !!!!

I was advisded to give my horses live yoghurt as a probiotic after any course of antibiotics well over 20 years ago before we all started useing it Magna therapy was first used on horses One Vet I knew believed in it so strongly he went to do that full time

Bran is soaked to give horses a bran mash if they have a blockage but if its the other problem !!! they are given it dry ( so people who say All Bran doesent work for them soak it !!)

Garlic has been used in horse feed for umpteen years to improve their breathing and circulation and a lot of their feeds contain herbs

The most famous face cream to restore the skin or heal Elizabeth Arden 8 hour cream was invented as a balm to put on her racehorses legs after racing !!

I have slight swelling on the fingertip joints but no pain but a friend of mine was told by she said her Dr ?? was a side effect of taking Calcium supplements ??

If anything new is given to my horses I will let you know as in a few years time we may be taking it to !!

Best wishes

Mrs G

So with my garlic, yoghurt, herbs and bran teabreads I'm pretty much on the same diet as your horses!! Perhaps I should try the Vet rather than the GP next time I'm in trouble! Still can't remember that linament my Mum used to put on her knees saying it was invented for horses - I think some people used to call it White Oils but there was another name - perhaps it isn't made any more.

As for the GP who said that calcium supplements were the cause of your friend's finger swelling, did you read in the Mail the recommendation that women shouldn't take calcium supplements after the age of 70? I believe it followed a New Zealand study a couple of years ago that found it could cause heart problems. Think I'll stick to the same diet as the horses!

Hope the reduction is continuing to go smoothly.

MrsO

However - if it helps we have a local bacon (Speck) which is prepared using hay and a cheese that is coated in dried alpine flowers as the rind - it tastes the way the flowers smell. :lol:

EileenH

Mrs O There is a linament called green oils ( for horses) which goes on bruising swellings and strains so that could still be it Havent bought any for a while but think I still have some It smells lovely

I decided not to start my reduction till today as I have been doing so much physical work trying to get rid of as many acorn loaded branches away from my horses as possible So as I am now being sensible !!!! and not impatient I left it another day before reducing We are going on holiday in September so would love to be on 5mg by then Blood tests this Friday then Dr next week so fingers crossed all is well

I was a bit concerned with the articles about Calcium in the news but I assume if we shouldnt have it we would have been told I shall ask my friend again about the lumps being caused by Calcium

Best wishes

Mrs G

<snip> Still can't remember that liniment my Mum used to put on her knees saying it was invented for horses - I think some people used to call it White Oils but there was another name - perhaps it isn't made any more. <snip>

MrsO[/quote:328635304d]

That sounds like DMSO... (Google it)

according to horses-and-horse-information:

[quote:328635304d]Information on Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) Treatments for Horses

Dimethyl-Sulfoxide, or DMSO for short, is a substance that is well known in veterinary circles. First and foremost it is much appreciated for its superior ability to calm swellings, relieve inflammation, and even help when spinal and head trauma are involved, simply because DMSO penetrates the animal’s skin quickly and in sufficient amounts to assist in the healing. Horse owners swear by it to treat founder and to reduce arthritic symptoms in their animals.

Yet at the same time the use of this substance is dreaded because of its rather pungent stench. [b:328635304d]Humans who use DMSO are actually able to taste the substance in their mouths and it is reportedly quite unappetizing.[/b:328635304d] The use on a horse – which has a much larger surface than a human – will cause the smell of the substance to quickly and thoroughly permeate the entire area where the horse is being kept.

Stench notwithstanding, veterinarians recognize that DMSO is a most valuable substance especially since it not only penetrates the skin quickly, but also takes along with it other substances, such as antibiotics and anti-inflammatories. What makes this drug so effective is the fact that it traps free radicals within the animal’s organism. These free radicals are found when tissue is damaged or deteriorating and in turn they harm other tissues and make injuries worse and significantly slow down the healing process. DMSO significantly reduces the quantity of free radicals in addition to producing sulfur which is known to be an essential component in the production of the cells that make up tissues. [/quote:328635304d]

I've been taxing my elderly aunt's brain - the liniment my Mum used to find so wonderful was called Ellimans Embrocation. Some bottles showed a picture of a horse whilst the others were for human use. It contains turpentine oil and glacial acetic acid. So it does sound similar to the DMSO you mentioned, Rick, in that they are both solvents and both have a strong smell! I'm going to enquire if it is, in fact, still available although I think I prefer the sound of your horses' lovely smelling green oils, Mrs G.

MrsO

I googled Ellimans and it certainly had a horse on the front so your aunt was right !!

I shall go through my horses medicine cabinet and see what else might help me !!

best wishes

Mrs G

i remember years ago, my mother using a cream she called 'horse cream for her arthritic knee. it was good. all the best to everyone. m. edwards

Welcome to the heberden's nodes club :lol: . I do hope you have been given something that has relieved the painful gout in your finger. I believe gout is another form of arthritis caused by too much acid in the body. Have you tried altering your diet to reduce high acid foods and replace with more alkaline ones? Lemon juice is particulary good because although it would appear to be highly acidic it does in fact turn to alkaline in the body. Also yoghurt would be another helpful food. The added bonus is that all these sorts of foods are helpful for PMR too. Very best wishes.

MrsO

Like you I was a bit concerned about the widely reported\"risks\" of calcium supplements.

I am not 100% wedded to orthodox medicine or, rather, I should say I do not exclude alternatives.

I subsribe to Health Sciences Institute ( Google if interested ). They send regular Newsletters and on 11th August had plenty to say about this \"warning\" BettyE