Help/Advice needed desparately!

Hi Pat - thank you for your reply - it helps to know someone is going through the same. I increased the cit from 30mg up to 40mg in May after a bad period. Things settled but then in September I started getting violent nightmares and heart palpitations. Dr suggested these could be  side effects so wanted me to reduce  or come off to see if I  really needed them or something else that would agree with me. In hindsight I probably think the 40mgs was too much and I probably should have just reduced back down to 30mg again. I got down to 10mgs  a month ago   but since then I have experienced debilitating withdrawal symptoms. The hardest is lack of balance/co-ordination and the anxiety and depression hitting me like a ton of bricks. I only increased back up to 20mgs 7 nights ago and this week has been hell. I've had heightened anxiety and depression and loss of appetite. The palpitations are still there. Maybe it will take a little longer to feel any benefit from the increase? I am so confused as don't know whether it's the Cit, Benzo or both that is doing this to me. Not sure of a way forward at the moment! Feeling lost. 

I think you are getting withdrawals from both pills ..sorry these replies are not in order ..let me know how you get on with the new doctor...

My Dr didn't advise me on a slow taper for the Cit and said nothing about how to stop the Benzo. What reductions did you make and over what time span?. Did you ever have to go back up a little and if so how did you feel ? 9 weeks is a long time to still have withdrawal symptoms. Are you going to stick with it? Are you still taking the benzos? I am trying to get as much info as poss about this. I live in Spain and am in the Spanish Healthcare System but  have been seeing a private Dr. due to the language problem. I can speak OK Spanish but not about medical matters. I now have managed to register within the Spanish system with an english speaking Dr. My first appointment is Dec 15 so want to go armed with as much info as possible. i just hope he can sort out the damage the other Dr has caused! 

I reduced 40 to 20 over 8 months ...20 to 10 over 2 months 10 to zero over 10 weeks ..the latter I feel was too quick ..no I never went back up but the withdrawal at the moment are making me think Of going back on 10 mg ..I an involuntarily dependent on diazepam ..but did reduce them from 30 mg a day to 10mg..this took 20 years ,!!..if you have any lorazepam left I would srart taking them till you see your new doctor 

Sorry Pat I missed this post last night in all the turmoil! I can see you did take it very slowly which is how I think I will need to do it. You have done so well on the the diazepam reduction too. It's such a shame that after all this you are struggling after reducing the cit from 10mgs. Let me know how you are doing and what you decide to do.

 

No - it's lormetazepam otherwise known at Noctamid. It is primarily a sleeping tablet but he gave it to me as it doesn't stay in your system as long as diazepam for example. Was taking probably 1 or 2 mgs over a 2 month period. Would this short length of time still cause withdrawal problems?

 

I really don't know as I've never heard of that pill..seems though that all meds for mental health have side effects when you come off them..so I would guess that even for such a short time you would have problems going cold turkey ..I hope you ha pave someone to support you over in Spain ?

I think you may be right about going cold turkey! As far as support, I have my husband. He has been great with helping me get dressed etc, cooking meals but he doesn't really understand what I am going through right now. I am not sure what sort of professional support there is here. I have been ticking along quite nicely all these years until this episode kicked off.!

I have just googled Noctamid and it is a pill that should be reduced slowly.

What a shame you didn't stick at 30mg 

hopefully you will stabilise soon ..as I said perhaps taking the Noctamid is the way to go until you can slowly come off them properly 

Yes, I think you may be right. I am now shaking uncontrollably when I try to move and can't use my legs.  I am really scared.  My husband has just come back and taken one look at me and is calling the original Dr who has done this thing. If no joy think we will be off to the Emergency Room!  Wish me luck. Thanks for your advice.

I was just going to say get to Casualty ..let me know how you get on ...insist they do something for you !! Good luck ..I feel for you 

Beverley, I tried to reply to you earlier but for some reason (probably the link to The Ashton Protocol) my response has not been published. I dont know anything about tapering anti depressants although the rate you mention seems way to fast, but I have had a lot of personal experience with Benzos. Your doctor was crazy to prescribe an even more addictive drug to get you off anri depressants but many doctors dont understand the danger of benzos. I am fighting the same battle in France but unlike you, i have been in the "benzo trap" for a long time. Yes, you can get these withdrawals after complete withdrawal after a few months of taking the benzo. It is effectively "Cold Turkey". But there is a special protocol to follow. For now you need to find a doctor who understands and do not be afraid to go to your local hospital. They will probably "reinstate" the drug and then you need to taper slowly. Preferably using valium. Please note I am not a doctor but am currently tapering myself to free myself from Havlane or Loprazolam. Good luck

Just an update! Dr came out and said to take a noctamid - I did and the relief was immense. I feel so much more relaxed now. So looks like I will have to slow taper off them too. Blood tests have been arranged to test electrolytes which I know nothing about but apparently do have an effect on the nervous system and heart rate. i will keep you posted and thanks so much for taking the time to help me. 

Sarah, thank you so much for your help. As you can see events rather took a turn for the worse today and we had to get the Dr out. He told me to take the benzo and the instant relief was amazing. Have to get some electrolyte blood tests done and then will be discussing how to taper slowly off the benzo as well as the cit!! Why is it easier to taper off using valium? It sounds like you have a lot of experience that could help me. I really appreciate it and wish you luck on your journey to be benzo free. Damn things!!!

So glad to hear that..and glad I was right to take the noctamid....take care 

Hello again Beverly, I am glad to hear you are feeling better. If you google the "Ashton Protocol" you will see why people generally use valium to taper. Basically because it has a longer half life you will not feel the effects so much of the reduction. Also valium is available in 10 mg, 5 mg, 2mg and drop forms which makes it easier to make precise reductions giving you the best chance of a smoother, easier taper. However, whilst this is generally understood in the UK thanks to some fantastic campaigners and support groups, i have have had a lot of problems trying to explain this in France. Generally they will suggest tapering on xanax or seresta and they do not understand the reasoning behind valium and generally dont like it when i say "In England we do it this way" but maybe the Spanish will be more open minded. It would be good if you do find a supportive doctor to help you. Dont worry, you can do this and you will feel better but it may take you a few months. I dont know the benzo you are taking and its equivalence to Valium but i do have contacts i could ask.

Bless you Pat - you take care too and I look forward to seeing how we go on here.

Hi Sarah, thanks for the info on this protocol. I will read it with great interest and now see why valium is far easier to use for the taper. I can totally appreciate the problems you are facing in France. I am not sure what I will encounter here but from friends experience it is not the practice here  to question what a Dr says to you! But it is my body so I will do my best and hope I get a Dr who is prepared to work with me. I just got upset today to think that I now have two quite potent drugs to deal with. The benzo is Lormetazepam (Noctamid) and is usually given as a sleeping tablet although I was taking it during the day. The Dr said he gave it to me because it has a short half life. Thankyou Sarah you have been so helpful when I was really struggling today. i wish you well.

You are welcome. Dont worry - you are not alone in this. And you will soon free your  body from these drugs. I think you said earlier in the discussipn that you have found an English doctor? If not the Ashton Protocol exists in many languages so you can print it in Spanish and take it to ypir doctor. I think some times Drs get confused over half lives as they tbink the shorter  the better but in fact the shorter the half life the more addictive the benzo. Again i wish to stress that i dont know this particular molecule and its equivalence in valium. May be somebody else on the forum may know but tomorrow i can ask for more info from a much respected contact in the "Battle against benzos" and hopefully you will be able to taper quickly. I wish you well too.

I have read the Ashton Protocol this morning which makes so much sense. I also found an Equivalence Table for Benzo's also based on research from Prof Ashton. I will take all this with me to the Dr. He is Spanish but has some English so hopefully we can communicate. At the moment I am just trying to keep going taking the drugs as have so many debilitating effects. Thank you once again.

 

Hi Beverley47094, I hope you are feeling better today? I am glad you found the Ashton Protocol useful and I hope your doctor will listen to you and your wishes. For now, the best thing you can do is find the level of Noctamid that you feel stable at, firstly for your body to stabelize but also so that eventually you will know the amount of valium you need to cross over to. I hope it goes well.

Hi Sarah

Well, I am feeling a bit better since taking the noctamid that's for sure. Yes, you are so right in saying I need to get stablelized on a certain dose so I know how much valium I'll need. I hadn't thought of that.  There is a lot to it isn't there? I thank you so much - you are a star! I'll be watching out for you and posting on here what's happening. xxx

Actually I havent really been on here very much. I did a taper about 10 years ago and there was a very supportive forum group founded by Ray Nimmo I believe, all based on the Ashton Protocol. But they closed as they got oversubscribed!! There is another forum which you will probably find if you search. I used to be more active in the other forum, but for the last 10 years I have been occupied by my children. They have all left home now, although I am looking forward to seeing them at Christmas! So now I have been looking at these forums again as I have the time to try to help other people, but from a quick look today it looks as though Pat and probably others are well placed to advised. The good news is that I managed to complete my first taper from about 15 mgs and stay off benzos for 5 years! But as a result of lots of different issues I ended up back on them again at a higher dose. I know what I have to do. So far I havent really felt any side effects from reductions other than an overwhelming thirst, especially when I eat. But it could be much worse! I was up around 40 mg when I started and am now at 22. Am just going to take my time and even stay put if I need to for a while. I hope that by the end of next year I will be benzo free again. In case you havent done so already, it may be a good idea to show the Ashton Protocol to your husband. It will reassure him and allow him to understand. It sounds as though he is very supportive. You may want to share with close friends as well so they can support you. But be warned - many people will not understand what you are doing, especially when you mention valium. I have certain friends who mean very well, but they still do not understand that I am actually taking the valium to wean myself off another drug and think I am taking it simply because of the issues over the last years. I think this is because I am in France. There is a lot of work to be done here - there doesn't appear to be much awareness of the Benzo problem . Drs dish them out like sweets and seem to be particularly partial to the really addictive ones. I often stand behind people in chemists who are collecting prescriptions and I want to follow them out and issue warnings!!  This is not meant to frighten you. You will be fine, you sound sensible and determined and you havent been taking it for too long. Yes, I will come back from time to time to see how you are getting on, but I think you are in good hands here! xx

Hi Beverly,

I live n Australia, very stick laws just starting after they handed all benzos out like lollie, I've neer heard of noctamid ill look it up just wondering.

Thanks. Nicola