Help me with my **possible** perioral dermatitis

Jo Jo,

This is an interesting post.

I think it's great that the Benadryl has helped you so much. I saw a naturopath regarding my rash and she suggested an antihistamine, but I didn't take the recommendation seriously, thinking it was more of a detox/gut/yeast/and or bacterial issue and not an allergen. Now you've really got me thinking. I broke out with my rash only a few days after having a hormonal IUD coil placed. I suppose with hindsight, this too could have been an allergic response to the synthetic hormone that is used. This is a great reminder that this particular rash has many different causes and we should all keep an open mind to varied treatments.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Jennifer

Just to let everyone know how I got on at the dermatologist. Bonus was that he identified the rash straight away as PD - remembering that I had seen the GP and nurse at least 4 times. He prescribed an antibiotic - lymecycline, twice a day for 2 weeks and dermavate. He explained that he was prescribing the dermavate to get rid of the the rash as I think he could tell how 'down' I was about it all. 24 hours on I can see avast improvement in my skin - I just hope the tablets do their job as I know I can only use the cream for 5 days. I have to go and see him in 6 weeks time, or earlier if their is no improvement.

Fingers crossed.

Gut Biome and how VITAL it is to EVERY Human being on this PLANET.

Antihistamine and Antibiotics.................................... Why they would even contenplate dishing these out to resolve this issue is beyond me.

For the past 30 years, obesity and autoimmune disease rates have been on a steady rise. At the same time, a little-known condition called histamine intolerance has become much more common. It’s a challenge to figure out the root causes and common denominators for these three seemingly unrelated health trends.

Lots of research shows that an unhealthy gut contributes to obesity, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, autism, depression, most skin disorders and chronic fatigue. The gut biome (intestinal bacteria), your diet, and the gut lining determine gut health. Modern lifestyle factors like the overuse of antibiotics, and diets high in processed, preserved, and histamine producing foods (i.e. most conventional yogurt), all contribute to an unhealthy gut biome. To repair an unhealthy gut and decrease histamine intolerance you need to eat an anti-inflammation diet, minimizing histamine producing bacteria and maximizing histamine degrading bacteria. Antihistamine treatment will just mask any skin disorder and it will return time and time again (Great if your income is gained from treating a Patient in this way)

This isn’t just science to me – it’s personal.

Here is another view from another Patient who fell Foul of Antibiotics.

My history of 15 years of heavy antibiotic use for chronic sinus infections as a young man set me up to have a histamine intolerance. Biohacking that problem helped me to discover the histamine connection years ago, but the link to the gut biome was quite elusive.

Why Your Gut Biome has Changed and Why Probiotics Have Become So Important.

The human gut biome (microbiome) consists of about 100 trillion bacteria cells – more than 10 times more than there are human cells in your body. You could even start to think of your gut biome as a significant organ in your body, so keeping it healthy and balanced is essential to reduce disease and optimize performance. As we learn more about the makeup of good and bad bacteria in the gut biome, researchers are also doing cutting edge DNA microbiome sequencing to show how people’s gut biomes are changing on a population level.

Gut biomes are becoming imbalanced because there are less good bacteria and more bad bacteria available in modern lifestyles and the standard American diet. When microbiota balance is out of whack, your body develops chronic inflammation, which can become autoimmune disease or other serious health problems. New research even suggests that diabetes may be an autoimmune disease triggered by poor gut health.

By now, most people know that one contributor to a broken microbiome is overuse of antibiotics. Antibiotics may wipe out whatever bad bacteria you were hoping they would, but they can also clear your system of the really good bacteria that promote a healthy gut. A number of studies show that even a single course of antibiotics can permanently alter the gut flora.

Aside from antibiotics overuse, poor diets and environmental toxins also wreak havoc on the gut by wearing down the protective barriers of the intestinal walls, eventually creating a leaky gut. As I’ve written previously, foods that are heavily processed, preserved, and filled with chemicals and toxins, damage gut health. Common types of these gut-damaging foods include: gluten, processed meats, sugar, most alcohol, mold toxins from coffee and chocolate, and more. These foods increase histamine levels, which in part is due to bad bacteria. I will go into more detail about histamine inducing bacteria in foods later in this post.

One of the reasons I’m such a fan of fresh, organic, local meat and vegetables is that our gut bacteria ultimately are related to our soil bacteria. Soil bacteria are the microbiome of the planet. Industrial agriculture has permanently modified soil organisms – molds and bacteria – so that they produce more toxins than ever before in history. The genes that form those toxins get shared with the bacteria growing in your gut.

Since the advent of antibiotics, scientists have been all over fighting bad bacteria (Hospitals overrun with Bad Bacteria Ring a Bell?).

Now they are beginning to understand the importance of good bacteria and microorganisms in our guts. This “good bacteria” theory led to taking supplemental probiotics as the go-to way to help re-populate our guts after courses of antibiotics or other stressors. Although some probiotics are good for you, sadly (for yogurt companies especially), most manufactured probiotics are only minimally effective at re-populating the gut biome. It is becoming apparent that not all strains of probiotics interact with the gut in the same way.

Histamine Intolerance and Which Bacteria to Avoid

Disturbance in gut biome also plays a significant role in creating the recent rise in histamine intolerance. Histamine intolerance is the result of an imbalance between the breakdown of histamine and its buildup in the gut. This is generally caused by a deficiency in the DAO enzymes (found in intestinal mucosa) that helps metabolize and breakdown dietary sources of histamine.

A histamine overload leads to increased inflammation and many other symptoms including: skin irritation, hives, throat tightening, increased heart rate, nasal congestion, migraines, fatigue, heartburn, reflux, and weight gain. Unlike other food allergies and sensitivities, the response from histamine intolerance is cumulative and not always immediate, so it is harder to pin point right away.

This is personal – I’m histamine intolerant but have been able to reduce my intolerance dramatically following the advice I’m sharing in this post.

**Sneak peak into a future post: Histamine is not the only bioactive substance that can lead to histamine intolerance. Biogenic amines also interact with DAO enzymes in the gut.**

Although there are some genetic causes for a decrease in the production of DAO enzymes, the change in people’s gut biome is also responsible for histamine intolerance. Even if someone has a normal production of DAO enzymes, the levels may still be insufficient when placed against high concentrations of histamine-rich foods and histamine producing bacteria.

Some common sources of histamine-producing foods are surprising. The following foods often have higher histamine contents or help release stored histamine:

Matured or fermented foods (depending on the bacteria and yeasts that are involved in the process): Sauerkraut, Kombucha, pickles, fermented SOY products, soy sauce, fish sauce, fermented coffee (Upgraded Coffee is safe). Some fermented foods are acceptable as long as it doe not cause a negative reaction.

Microbiologically produced foods: Most yogurt, buttermilk, kefir, mature cheese, sauerkraut, wine (especially reds)

Processed, smoked, and fermented meats: Lunchmeat, crappy bacon, sausage, pepperoni, salami, etc.

Alcohol: Red wine, white wine, champagne, beer

Yeasty Foods: breads made with yeast

Certain Vegetables, Fruit, and Nuts: tomato, canned vegetables, strawberries, kiwi, pineapple, peanuts, cashews, walnuts, and more.

Different types of bacteria and probiotics also play a part in histamine regulation. Some probiotics are necessary for proper gut function (where histamine lowering enzymes DAO form), but some strains actually raise histamine levels. The different strains of studied probiotics are categorized as (1) histamine producing bacteria, (2) neutral bacteria, or (3) histamine degrading bacteria.

Histamine producing bacteria: Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus reuteri, and Lactobacillus bulgaricus (Found in most yogurts and fermented foods).

Neutral bacteria: Streptococcus thermophiles (also in yogurt) and Lactobacillus rhamnosus (shown to down regulate histamine receptors and up-regulate anti-inflammatory agents)

Histamine degrading bacteria: Bifidobacterium infantis (found in breast milk), Bifidobacterium longum, Lactobacillus plantarum, and some soil-based organisms.

Some of these bacteria form histamine when they break down protein in foods, even vegetables, whether the food is in your gut or fermenting in your kitchen. Now you know why I’m skeptical about Doctors prescribing Antihistamine tablets, as where the Hell does this all fit into Long Term Health for the Patient.

I am SO Tired of seeing People given short term fixes that not only Mask the underlined issue but are also compounding the Problem.

Feeling Frustrated for You guys, so Im going Cycling....

The Sun is out Here in the Algarve so Im going to suck in some of Natures Good Bacteria for two or three hours, up in the Hills.

Harry, I've kept up with your long posts since you began posting. I'm celiac and have been gluten free for over 10 years. I am pescatarian (no meat, only fish and veg) because that cured a Gastroparesis diagnosis I was given (the stomach muscles don't move the food along properly) several years ago. I took digestive enzymes way back when I had the Gastroparesis diagnosis to help recover from what was a very rough time in my life healthwise (I had to put my food in a blender to digest it). The medical doctors prescribed some very scary medicines which I wouldn't take. I rarely take a pill. I ride out a headache until it gets better. I survived the Gastroparesis diagnosis without drugs by healing naturally. I hadn't had antibiotics in YEARS when this rash occurred. I fought the rash utilizing my own natural health knowledge and failed and two different doctors prescribed antibiotics after 3 months of trying to clear the rash by myself. I had an allergic/sensitivity type reaction to the antibiotics and stopped after only one month. I take an 80 billion probiotic that is expensive but I consider important. As I indicated in my prior post I was experiencing intense itching that I suffered through for several weeks before taking the antihistamine and finally got some relief. I'm continuing to experiment with what is already a limited diet for me and I can consider a pretty healthy one too. I enjoy a drink occasionally and sometimes I eat cheese and crackers. I consider that enjoying life a little! I am familiar with many of the natural remedies you've commented upon, however; I'm finding your posts to be lecturing to others (that's how I find your last post especially) without having the full background of the individual to whom you direct your comments. I'm sure my response will elicit another lengthy post which will make it difficult to continue this forum which is unfortunate because I value a range of feedback and experiences, not just from one individual. The self-prescribed antihistamine helped me get two nights of rest and enabled me to attend an important business conference. I take it sparingly. Maybe that antihistamine advice will help someone else who has to go to work or get some rest. My quest continues to heal by experimenting from the inside out. My experiments are different than yours Harry and they are valid just like others on this forum who research and experiment on this journey to solve the cause of their rash which I believe is caused by a myriad of factors that may be very unique to each individual.

Dear Jo, I started using this forum a long time ago,along with Fiona when Emily had not long started it.

I was distressed to read that you feel events may make it difficult to post on this forum- everyone must post on this forum and I urge you to continue.Everyone is welcome and one should not feel they cannot post because of others comments.

If I may add my opinion of Harry's posts here- I agree with your comments.

I feel Harry is passionate about his journey to heal him self but his posts can come across as 'his way must be followed'

I am sorry Harry if this offends you and it is clear to me you want to help very,very much and I thank you for your detailed posts and they will help many but not all.

As Jo and I and many others have said there are different causes,symptoms and remedies for PD.

I have no doubt if one follows your path Harry they will be free of PD but, and it's a big but, most of us have one or two triggers and in most cases these can resolve our PD,some will have to go into great detail with treatment and others will not.

I personally will use enzymes in future and that is the beauty of this forum we can take information we need and disregard what we don't.

I know I have not the means or time to buy endless supplements or change my diet fully,not with a big family and two complex dogs to feed.

I posted about antihistamines before and I also posted about hormones,candida and elidel and other things -some found this helpful others did not.

I think hormones seem to resonate with many and if one thinks about it there is allergy-bacteria-viral or fungi and one of these or a combination of these approaches must help.

I found allergy/candida to be my triggers but antibiotics are useful to some and I found them to be very helpful in getting rid of my PD.

I am now aware of candida and my intolerance of hormone supplement (Black Cohosh) and take daily action on these points which has so far kept me PD free!

I had a thought while posting this-how does everyone feel about a Facebook page?

It may reach more people and be easier to manage?

For a start we could have a 'search facility' on the page for ease of use.

We could also have 'stickys' for information like Harry's,zinc cream,Elidel etc

What do people think?

Keep posting

Lisa

I am going to sound like I am fawning over you Lisa, if I keep reiterating that I agree with you once again but you have a direct way of getting your point across without stepping on toes...

I have been feeling lately that this forum is taking a turn to pontificating on a soap box where it never was before. Harry, you are very passionate about your theories and for the right reasons....to help others. And I for one thank you. How about a little more gently? (repeating myself again)

As to the Facebook page....I don't have one just because I am sort of a private person but I am up for it if everyone else is

Take Care All

I have been meaning to say also that I hope that I don't sound like a wind-bag when I keep recommending zinc. There are loads of great recommendations from everyone and I have to remind myself that just as Jennifer posted, we are all different with different triggers.

Now I am going to ask my five year old nephew how to go about starting a Facebook page...huh.

And to JoJo, you have had so many ailments to deal with....I wish you the best.

The same to you Gilly and keep us posted about your new treatment

Fiona

Hi All,

I'm sorry if my information is a little bit wayward and perceived to be "my way must be followed". I just don't like to see people being fobbed off with short term results, when the Serious long term situation is not being addressed.

I wish you all an Enjoyable & Peaceful Sunday.

No offence meant Harry,I really do understand you are passionate about

helping people.

I have just read a new post on here about blue balm- maybe helpful.

https://patient.info/forums/discuss/blue-balm-how-my-daughters-eczema-and-husbands-dermatitis-went-away-186012?utm_campaign=forumemail&utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email

i'm so happy to have found a place i can talk with people currently experiancing what i am experiancing. i first realized i had perioral dermatitis when i started to get tiny bumps under my eyes. i had used a strong steroid cream under my eyes to lighten the dark circles but unfortunetly i used it for too long and it gave me this horrible skin disorder. i used a sunblock that contained zinc oxide and it kept the perioral dermatitis at bay for a long time but than they had discontinued it and now my perioral dermatitis has run free. i tried to get a doctor to make a mixture of a skincream with zinc in it but my perioral dermatitis reacted horribly to it. i tried using avene cicalfate and my rash errupted even worse. i purchased asian violet extract but am scared to use this version because it's from the Viola yedoensis species and not viola tricolor which the type i believe everyone is raving about? should i go ahead and use it anyway or should i wait to get the correct one from herb pharm. i just want to be rid of this skin afflicaton so badly. i already deal with acne. this new problem is an unwelcome addition to my otherwise horrible life.

Hi!

This is inflammation! I have psoriatic arthritis and five years ago it really flared up in my joints so I couldn't exercise anymore and two years ago patches started appearing on my skin and under nails- my diagnosis was very serious- code was L40.0(-). About a year ago I started taking a new natural Omega 3 North- Europe producer product (they are promised ratio 3:1 or lower) and now for all practical purposes my psoriasis is gone. You find help from right natural Omega 3 product but important use independent laboratories blood test for measure Omega 3 effect and Omega 6:3 ratio due to its importance. By the way- if you hold ratio 3:1 or lower then all life style diseases (skin diseases, asthma, allergies, diabetes 2, high blood pressure, thyroid problems, osteoporosis, cardiovascular diseases and so on) are disapeared.

Dear Misty,

Oh, I feel very bad for you and I understand your state of mind right now. PD hit me just after a very troubling time in my life as well and I remember wondering if it was directly related to stress....I honestly don't know where it comes from. There are alot of theories that you can read about in this forum and recommendations but I think the best part of it is that you can rant and rave and there always seems to be someone who will answer and offer encouragement..

I haven't had more than a few blisters (under my lip and around my eyes) that appear every once in a while since about Feb/March of this year. Like you, my "cure" started with using sunscreen which I had read about on another site and then I went from there to diaper cream and then the zinc concoction.

It was sooo hard for me not to slap anything and everything on my face in hopes of ridding it but I tried really hard to give each thing a good try to see what would happen. I read about Violet Extract and wanted to try it but it took me forever to find it (none in Canada where I am). I finally found it at HerbPharm (viola tricolor) but by the time it arrived 2 weeks later, I had JUST tried the sunscreen. I quite using the sunscreen because I was so curious about the violet extract that I had waited for so long to arrive and it did provide relief from the itching and burning but I never applied it beyond a few days because I felt that I saw better results from zinc-based ointments.

Holy Cow!! I am rambling on and on and your desperate for an answer...Violet Extract definately did some good for me.....Can the strain (yedoensis) make that much of a difference? My opinion is that you should try it. Just remember that it stains your skin so it can make the PD look just as red when it really isn't.

Take some deep breathes and be kind to yourself Misty....Let us know how you get on

Fiona

P.S. I feel guilty because I have almost a whole bottle of the Viola Tricolor in my cupboard!

dear fiona77498

thankyou for your reply. i guess i will try this strain of violet extract and see how it goes. i pray it doesn't cause a horrific erruption on my face. i am in canada too. toronto actually. may i ask what sunscreen based zinc lotion do you use?

Hey Misty,

God, I really hope that you don't break out too. I can only tell you that the tricolor did relieve the burning but as I said, I didn't use it for more than a few days because the sunscreen and Penatene worked faster. It did NOT make it any worse.

I just used a spray-on sunscreen that I had left over from last summer. It must have been Johnson and Johnson because that's what I have been buying for the last few years. I have sensitive skin so I figured that if you can use it on babies....

After that, I did alot of research on creams to find one that I thought would be the least likely to do harm and mixed that with zinc oxide powder that I bought at a pharmacy.

I finally decided on CereVe which I still use now and will probably use forever. It's better than any cream that I have ever tried (I used to spend hundreds at a time on skin care) and it is non-comedogenic which means that it doesn't clog pores.

May I ask, did you continue to use the zinc-sunscreen even AFTER your PD calmed down? I mean, were all the bumps and rash gone and then did you continue to use it as a precaution?

I'm kind of nervous hearing that your PD came back so bad when you had already had it under control and that now the zinc is no longer working for you. UGH. I was really hoping that I could always get rid of it if I ever had an eruption again,

I grew up in Toronto and lived my life there until about 10 years ago when I moved north (don't know why I'm telling you....except that your from "Trono" too.

I am really keeing my fingers crossed for you and when you get a chance, could you please answer my question?

Fiona

P.S. I hope that you don't think that I am taking your fear of it erupting with the violet extract lightly. I know how terrifying that it can be when you think that it will make it worse. I used to save trying new things for the weekend or when I knew that I didn't have to go out if my face exploded. Peronally, I would try it. That's just me though.

Take Care