Help - PIP mandatory reconsideration

Hi Denise, I scored myself on the descriptors before even applying for Pip and used this information when filling in my form. I do keep diaries and offered these to assessor but he said he wouldn’t need them, shall send copies with my MR, especially the one from the day of the assessment. My son has said he will write a letter too, he is the main person that helps me and knows how debilitating my anxiety is. I didn’t get him to do a letter for my application as I wasn’t sure they would accept it as he is not a professional person. Xx

Yes send that diary for sure! Assessors really make me so mad because a lot are refusing to take extra evidence during the assessment, it happened with my daughter and he totally refused. Advised me to send it to DWP. Luckily i'd already sent in a massive amount but this was extra that i'd had sent to me from various Consultants.

Yes a letter from your son will also help. It doesn't matter that he's your son. Please ask him to put down everything that he helps you with or does for you. Remember for PIP if you can't some some regular, reliably in a timely manner then you're classed as not being able to do it at all.

Any other evidence you can think of, just send it. Doesn't matter where or who it's from. You said you've suffered with this condition for over 10 years. Does your GP have anything AT ALL in your medical records that you can use? Even if it's years old, use it and those letters and diary will back it up. Please be aware that a GP may charge for any medical records you ask for.

Thank you for that advice Denise, Will get started on highlighting the points in the report that are incorrect. I still can’t believe that man made out he was so understanding, kept reassuring me when I struggled to answer things because I couldn’t remember, like what did I have for tea the night before, I couldn’t answer that as genuinely had no idea but on report he states I answered all questions fully and without any cognitive issues. Other odd statement he made was on the preparing a meal, he said I stated that I’d said my favorite thing to eat was a roast dinner, yes it is but that doesn’t mean I can cook one, I only ever cook a roast if my mum is here to help me, I wouldn’t even try on my own xx

i told him that too !!! Xx

No problem. Sadly they do lie on these reports. It doesn't mean to say they lie on every report. I can honestly say i've never had a bad report.

Only thing you can so is appeal and that starts with the MR first. You can start to write that letter but you have to wait for the decision letter before you request the MR. There's also no timescales for those MRs, they can infact take as long as they want. If you get as far as Tribunal then waiting times depend on backlog in your area which is extremely long in most areas, so i'm told. Some are waiting 40+ weeks.

Disability advice centres are there to help you too. Good luck.

Yes, it's true.

People do work and claim PIP but you have to be careful because if the work you do contradicts the reasons why you're claiming PIP, then sadly it will go against you. I've heard it happen so many times.

Denise I’m sorry to constantly ask you things but wondered if you had any advice. I received my decision letter yesterday and as expected the DM has gone purely on the assessors report, quoting it constantly when giving his reasons for awarding me 0 points in both parts. I have phoned and was put through to a case manager and I said I would be sending in a written request for a MR along with extra supporting evidence from my son, my neighbor and a work colleague. I was told that the evidence from my son and neighbor would not be considered as it is impartial evidence and that the evidence from my work colleague would only be used if it showed how I need support relating to the descriptors. They also deem diary’s as unreliable evidence as it can not be proved whether these were written before or after a decision letter was received. 

The only evidence they will accept in order to consider changing an award is extra evidence from a professional eg GP/councilor etc regarding the nature of how my illnesses effect my abilities in each descriptor. My GP has already sent 2 letters and I don’t have input from any other professionals. 

i feel I have lost before I’ve begun...... 

Hi Frinsy I do feel for you but I have come across this before and sadly they were unable to achieve a result even at tribunal, I know that giving a diary and letters from friend's carers etc is often given as evidence but I have said all along this has to be backed up with medical evidence as well, your GPs reports are not always enough either, I'm sure others will say they are but obviously DWP are saying this to, do you not see anyone else or have you not seem anyone else in the last three years to coroberate you diagnosis

No problem, it's fine. I have no problems advicing anyone.

To start with the words i would love to say about that case manager would not be accepted here on the forum, so for that part i'll leave it up to your imagination.

That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard anyone ever say to someone. Why wouldn't all that extra evidence be any good? I've heard of plenty of people send in exactly that sort of evidence and been awarded.

It may not help you with the MR process BUT there's absolutely no reasons at all why it wouldn't help you with the Tribunal. As long as all the evidence clearly points the the descriptors that apply to you then it's fine. This is what they need. The diary is excellent evidence along side the letters you have from your GP.

You need to remember that only 20% of MR's are successful. That's extremely low. What mostly happens with the MR is they put the same wording they did with the first decision and i've heard mutliple times that it's often word for word as well. The likelyhood of succeeding at this stage is very slim, especially as you weren't given any points at all. Expect that decision not to change, i'm sorry to tell you.

The most import part for you will be the Tribunal and this is really what you need to concentrate on. Appearing in person is your BEST chance.

I'd advice you to request that MR in writing and don't delay the process. Send it of with a little extra evidence you have. Delaying the process will only make the whole thing even longer and Tribunal waiting times are huge right across the country. Some are waiting 1 year.

Don't give up because if you do then you've let them win. I wish you good luck and if you need any further advice along the way, just shout because i'll be here. x

Hi Alexandria,

I know you keep saying this but PIP really isn't about a diagnosis. It's all about how those conditions affect you daily and nothing else. A letter of diagnosis won't help anyone. The evidence that's needed is what will prove those descriptors apply to you. Letters from GPs often carry a lot of weight, especially when backed up by a diary and letters from those that help a lot in a persons daily care needs.

The problem a lot of people have is that they often don't see any medical professionals other than a GP.

Hi Denise, I haven't once said that it is just about the diagnosis, I know it's not but I have to say that you do need a diagnosis or any one could apply for PIP with absolutely no medical reports to back it up, or my Dr says I probably have rheumatoid arthritis and I feel like I have, I could write all the symptoms and give a diary and letters of family friends etc and I would then get PIP is that correct, when I was told to apply for it by my physio, OT and my consultants they all said I should get it with all my written evidence, I have just been on the CAB site and they say you should have medical evidence to back it up or are they not giving the right advice, this is just to clarify it for me

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/your-supporting-evidence/

You do keep saying its about a diagnosis, i'm sorry but it has nothing to do with a diagnosis. As i have said many many times you do not need a diagnosis of anything to apply for PIP, It's nothing to do with a diagnosis and it never has been. It's purely on how those conditions affect you in daily life.

There's probably thousands of people that never see any medical professional other than their GP. CAB site said you SHOULD have medical evidence, that doesn't mean you HAVE to have medical evidence. Letters from people that support you with your care needs and a written diary about how your conditions affect you everyday is still classed as evidence. Yes, back it up with letters from GP, Consultants, Social workers, Educational Health Care Plans etc etc IF you have these sort of things.

I'm not saying it won't be harder but any evidence is better than nothing. I have heard of people claiming successfully with just letters from people that know them well and a daily diary. I've also heard people have sent in page after page of medical evidence and have been awarded a big fat nothing.

Thanks Denise, I totally agree that views on case managers would not be appropriate on this site, as you can imagine my views are probably very similar to yours.

Am sending everything I have in and at least I will know everything will be on record ready for Tribunal as I'm sure that's where it will go as I cant see my going from zero points to 8 in either parts at MR stage. This is a part I've put in my MR letter " It's so frustrating that by putting so many safeguards in place I am now seen as completely independent because I have no additional paperwork from professionals to support my claim. If my son, friends, family and neighbors didn't help me and I was still at the stage of being at my GPs 2-3 times a week, calling ambulances almost every month and being taken to A&E at least twice a month this would be costing the NHS a lot more than £55 a week but at least I'd have more paperwork from professionals. I feel I'm being penalised for having tried to take proactive steps to manage my illnesses with the help and support I need from those around me. "

How do you think that sounds xx

My GPs receptionist is going to print off letters from CBT therapist and psychiatrist but as I think Denise is trying to point out, even with more evidence of my diagnosis that doesn’t prove what I can or can’t do. I know people with similar diagnosis as mine yet you’d never know as they are able to lead almost completely independently because their symptoms are controlled. As I’ve stated before, my GP does not live with me nor does the psychiatrist I saw so they can only give my diagnosis not how it effects me. Decisions seem to purely be based on assessments and I feel that these are what are being abused, Assessors being able to write what they like based on a 40minute window. There is no fool proof way to avoid people abusing the system but there needs to be a better way of getting help to those that genuinely need it. 

I'm going to be completely honest with you here BUT you're completely missing the point with that MR request. You need to stay away and avoid all what you've written above. I know it's extremely difficult thing to do but the case manager isn't going to be interested in any of the above. They really don't care about anything like that because it has no relevance to a PIP award.

What you need to concentrate on is the PIP descriptors and what applies to you and absolutely nothing else. You want that case manager to sit there and read what you've written. The minute they start to read that above they will stop, make their decision and move on to the next one. Yes, to you and many others that may seem a little harsh but it's true.

What you need to do is start again and this time have a copy of the PIP descriptors and the assessment report next to you while you write the letter. Go through each part of the report starting at the first descriptor, see where if at all it applies to you and THEN put the reason why you disagree and state the help/support you have/need and the aids/adaptions you use, if any. Then put the score you think you should have got. Do this all the way through the report and the descriptors.

Same with the evidence for the letters and diary. Your son only needs to put in the letter the help and support he gives you to go about and manage your daily life.

Your aim is to be in the 20% of people that do get the decision changed at MR stage.

One question i'm not sure if i asked you before. If this does get to Tribunal stage is there any other evidence you will be able to get to support your claim? Anything at all that will help you? Are you able to ask your GP for any of your medical records from past years? There maybe a charge for this so be aware. When i've seen my Consultants in the past i've always asked them to CC me into the letter when writing to my GP. The same in the past year for my daughter. What her GP receives, i receive it and her college does too. This way there's always a trail of evidence available.

I hope i've explained it well enough for you but please try and stay focused on those descriptors and nothing more. x

 

I only just seen this comment from you. I must have been replying to you as you did this.

Yes,proof of a diagnosis will not help you with an award. This is because no 2 people are the same and what might affect one person, may not affect another. Just like the way you described above with the people you know that have the same condition as you.

I know your GP or anyone else doesn't live with you but that doesn't matter. Usually when someone sees a GP/Consultant/ Occupational Therapist etc etc they usually sit down and tell the professional the things that happen in their life.

For example, if a person suffers from a mental condition or they are going through assessments for a disagnosis, to get the diagnosis lots of questions are asked. How their life is, what they feel, the help they receive to cope with everyday life. At the end of that a report is written and sent to your GP, in this report it will state everything that you've told that Consultant.

My daughter has mental health issues, a social anxiety disorder and ASD. I have 5/6 10+ pages of reports that clearly state exactly how she's affected by all of this and everything that she needs help with to get through each day. This is how those professionals know how your condition affects you. It's not about having to live with you to know how you're affected, if you see what i mean.

The letters you have will help but reports/letters from medical professionals will back up the rest of your evidence.

Decisions aren't always based just on assessments. There are genuine HCP's out there and there are the ones that will read through all of the evidence that is sent. There's only one problem, we very rarely read the good stories.

It helps to understand the process and descriptors.

 

Thanks again Denise, I’m glad I have you for advice. Have completely redone my letter and not made it personal in any way, have stuck to the descriptors and highlighted what points I think I should be awarded and explained exactly I fit that descriptor. No long winded woe is me letter, just sticking to the facts of my claim. My GP is going to write another letter and will include copies of contact with CBT and pyschiatrist even though they’re approx 9 and 13 months old. You are a star xxxx

You're more than welcome.

That's fantastic. Those letters from CBT and Pyschiatrist are great and recent ones too. Believe me people send in evidence that's so more older than that.

I wish you good luck. Remember there's no timescales scales to MRs. They can take as long as they want. If the decision stays the same and you need more advice on the next stage, just ask.