Hormone Replacement Therapy - Pellets

Hi LouLou

I finally had the pellet implanted just two weeks ago.  I have not yet felt the surge in my breasts that I usually felt when the pellets worked before, which was usually after 3 weeks.

So I am continuing with patches as well and no head sweating like I got when my oestrogen was not working because of too much progestin.   I stopped the progestin altogether and finally the patches started working again and I am waking up with dry hair.

The pellet may be working a bit as I forgot to top up the patches with a gel for the 7th day that I did not replace the patch, given that I am only given enough patches for 2 a week, and I did not sweat that night.

When the implants were working before, it was heaven.  If this one does not work, then it is the compound chemist fault.  Although the gp had trouble tunnelling through my flesh with the trocar and I think she may have hit scar tissue from an earlier one.  So I may have to take that into account if the implant does not kick in.

Remember that the higher dose is for longevity of the working time of the pellet, and not for strength of oestrogen.  My gp did not know that so I imagine other drs do not either, and fuss over how much they are giving you.  Your body takes only what it needs when it needs it.

I don't get joint pain from oestrogen - it generally occurs from lack of oestrogen, plus I have haemochromatosis which causes joint pain.  But I have been "deironed" now and continue to have maintenance venesections and joint pain is no longer an issue, but it does reduce oestrogen which contributes to my problem.

So fingers crossed!

 

Oh my answer above was to this lol. It's been 3 months now a little bit more and my estrogen levels after the first high surge stabilised and I did feel fresh and sexy lol. Even had boobs again, nice glow etc so stopped antidepressants too. A week ago I did my levels again it's 1000 now but my mental state is meh, crying down and all that . Boobs deflating no hot flashes as per yet but back on antidepressants.... i orders the same implant again as it seems it was just one big surge as after it was stable around the 1400 /1300/ 1200 over a few weeks ...

But not liking how I feel now again  

Kathleen, I suggest, if you have not already done so, that you search for more information about DIM.  From what I read, it may be good for balancing hormones prior to menopause as its affects are meant to reduce estradiol, or "mitigate some effects of estradiol excess" if that is a woman's problem.  Otherwise, as I need all the oestrogen I can get post-menopause, it would be no good for me.

 

Hi, Sheryl,

Thanks, I will check into it.

Hi

Yes I am taking DIM also. Supposed to distribute the estrogen more safely

I continue taking full strength patches until I definitely know the pellet has kicked in.  In the past, it has been at least three weeks.  It may have something to do with the healing of the wound around the pellet???

It is now 2.5 weeks since implant, and I have started feeling fuller in the breasts but I don't think I am ready yet.

 

Thanks Sheryl, that's interesting. What were you like when you first started implants, did you need patches too? Two weeks tom. On half 50 patch and feel am getting worse, aches, dryness. Weird that i had a great 4 days about a week ago though. Was on 3/4 patch still then.

It cant have burned out already. Would you go back to full patch tom?

Any sign of yours kicking in?

Just my two cents - I had also thought often times my implant wasn't working or not up but all the blood tests that I made (every 2.5 weeks ) did show estrogen up.  Actually with the first week it already went up... so sometimes it's other things or our bodies adjusting to the chanted in the hormones. And not the estrogen per se... 

My surgeon implanted the pellet at same time as my surgery.  In retrospect, my ob was marvellous - he chose the implant, there was no quibling like I and many other women have experienced since.  This was back in 1990.  The pellets worked like magic for me and a 100 lasted 9 months (was told it would last 1 year).  I went on to patches thinking I had to wait till the 12 months was up to get another pellet.

Did this for a couple more years until I had to find another dr to do the implants and she said no, I can get another implant immediately.

I did have a very rough time starting before the magic 6 weeks post surgery were up complaining of fatigue and aching bones and muscles.  It increased in severity with my gp saying it was because I was a working mother, CFS, etc.  I was a working mother before surgery and I was superwoman then.

9 years later one of my hips broke up and it turned out I had haemochromatosis which was causing my severe fatigue, aching bones and muscles, foggy brain, memory loss, etc.  Note the symptoms are the same as menopause.  But it was not menopause and my pellet was working extremely well.

When they stopped making the pellets, I went on to the patches, and finding that I had to top up on the 7th day with gel, as my patches (100) would only last me 3 days each, instead of 3.5 days.  Same as the pellet only lasted 9 months instead of 12 months.  My body required more oestrogen.

Possibly because I have no fat on my hips and thighs where oestrogen is stored.

The rot set in when a few years later I suddenly started suffering extreme head sweating.  Thyroid and menopause symptoms were dismissed as I was using the pellets at the time, and 8 years of suffering later, another dr sent me to a endocrinologist and I was found to have a tumour on my pituitary gland causing excessive prolactin which, in turn, was making my oestrogen ineffective.  After starting medication for that, the problem eased like a miracle.

However, my new gp kept insisting I take Provera (progestin) to balance my  

hormones.  The patches were not working as well, and I went in search of the pellets again.  They did not work either.  I recently discovered that Progestin was an oestrogen antagonist and they were preventing the oestrogen from being effective too.  My head went back to sweating profusely and I was always feel hot, night sweats were extreme.

This year I stopped the progestin and the patches came good.  Kept on them for about 3 months to ensure all was still working well before going for the pellet again (3 weeks post implant today).  I am expecting the surge any day now, but I did experience some minor surges on the weekend.  I will not go off nor reduce the patches until I am sure.

In your case, perhaps those 4 good days were because you were still getting the effects of your patches, but since you started reducing them, you are not getting the oestrogen you need, as the pellet has not been given time to kick in.

As you will note above, as my patch would only last 3 days, and by next mid morning, I would get a wave of anxiety or depression, because I had not put on a new patch or used the gel.  That is how immediate the impact of insufficient oestrogen is for me.

If the pellet does not work, then something is wrong with the quality of the compounding material, or something wrong with how it was implanted.  If that cannot be corrected, then of course I will revert to the patches again most whiningly .  I will never go off oestrodiol, or I will be  and likely to jump off a cliff.

So fingers crossed for all of us.

 

It is very possible.  And I will be investigating if any other medication I am on could be causing some resistance.  I can't rely on my gp as she did not know that it was the progestin that was playing havoc with my oestrogen.

 

Hi Manuela and Sheryl. Yes its very complex . How are you today? I do think its hormones with me. Have had tests for other stuff however, i think its more to do with fluctuations rather than levels per se. Ive left 3/4 patch on and will see what happens. I shouldn't have to with implant but will see how it goes! Maybe try again to reduce at 3 weeks. I can't believe so many women are struggling years after having their ovaries removed or hysterectomy. I thought I'd pop some hrt pills and everything would be fine. Ha!

Yes, aren't we fed a lot of garbage by drs.  I can't wait till mine hit menopause.  When I think about it I have not had a female dr who was going through menopause or post menopause and therefore knew what we were going through.

I wonder what happens to them.

There was one of that age who was mean and sour, who was anti-hrt - she was cutting off her nose to spite her face.

 

How did you figure you had a resistance to the estrogen? Like based on symptoms or blood tests? I'm just generally wondering ...

I booked in Thursday for second round implant. Just did a blood test again yesterday and it's now on 820 pmol and that's with a patch on... feeling depressed and emotional again so started my antidepressant as well again that I stopped good 7 weeks ago. My skin is yucky and dry too I think my estrogen has to be up the 1200 for me to feel well, I'm not a big person weight wise so I think my body just requires more estrogen all up. So looking forward to get the new implant !

Resistence is probably the wrong word.  It is more about making my oestrogen ineffective.

My symptoms were severe head sweating, like constantly, and all over night sweats.  At the moment with the patches (and the recent implant) my hair stays dry except when I am exerting myself in the heat, and no night sweats.

With the patches only, when I forgot to replace them on the 3rd day, I would get waves of depression or anxiety.

There are certain foods like soy, broccoli, etc which contain, can't think of the right word, a certain type of plant oestrogen, but despite the stories that Asian women don't get menopause problems because they consume a lot of soy, I have read that they actually block/cause resistance to oestrogen, perhaps oestrodial, and convert its to a lesser form of oestrogen.  Sounds confusing, I know.  I eat broccoli and a bit of soy milk everyday in my coffee and I am sure it is not enough to cause any problems in that regard.  It is too confusing and I have not searched it out thoroughly.  If I consumed a lot of it, I would have second thoughts about it.  Someone else might know.  Their different blood type might come into it too.

All in all, I am thinking the compound chemists are using bad quality material, perhaps a cheaper version, because too many women on this forum are complaining of the same thing.  I had no problem with the original ones.

I have recently had full sensations in my breasts but nothing like I used to get to let me know the pellet was working.  Funnily enough, it is when I am using this forum and thinking about it! 

Maybe I will make tomorrow a non-patch, non-gel day and see if I get any sweats at night.  If that is ok, I will change my patch routine to every 4 days instead, and so on.

Oh, by the way, I rarely have oestrogen blood tests.  As the dr from Leicester says, it is all about how we feel that we should be catering to, rather than what the blood level says.

 

Yes the broccoli and some other vegetables act like the DIM tablets that convert the estrogen...

I see the point of symptoms vs bloods yet I often found I'm having symptoms so attributed them to the estrogen and checking levels at such times but showed defs high enough levels so me adding let's say gel to it Woukdve just made it even higher.  I did actually read that estrogen receptors can be less receptive to the estrogen if estrogen is too high over a time... and that natural progesterone is sensitising them. Last time I used natural progesterone my boobs where like really tender - but they weren't at all with a super high reading of 2300 at the time. Then if estrogen is high it can surpress thyroid - which can cause similar symptoms to that of menopause. It's all very complex really . I'm still having my uterus so I'm supposed to take progesterone to bleed yet even with high level estrogen I don't get proper bleeds so makes me think my body's estrogen receptors might not be that switched on? And today I got my bleed even though o didn't take progesterone and my estrogen level is on the go down... I'm having chills and now I'm nearly too warm so beats me 

Me again.... just wondering, I had last Thursday my new implant implanted, however this time I actually can feel it! Like through the skin - it been like that from the go and I wonder has anyone else had that? Today I'm not feeling the best I'm feeling hot and had one of my migraines again so I wonder if it's actually not doing what's it supposed to do if it's too superficially implanted ? Anyone else had it feeling? 

Hi, if no better tomorrow maybe you should get looked at? I can feel slight lump but its just the scar. Hooe you get sirted.

How's everyone else doing? I'm not getting any amazing results as yet but only second one....sick of being patient x

Over the many years I have had oestrogen implants, I have always felt the pellet under my skin.  Perhaps there would be a problem if you could see a lump protruding from the surface of your abdomen.

I don't have a lot of fat on my abdomen, and they have to be careful they don't pierce the muscle where it would not work anyway, needing fat to absorb the oestrogen.  It should not be immediately under the incision as the dr should tunnel along a little bit.  Infact I am pleased to be able to feel it: 1. to confirm that it actually was implanted, and 2. to feel when it is decreasing in size.  When it is gone or barely felt, I can expect menopause symptoms to arise.

So I don't think that is your problem.  I have finally had a week without patches and have been monitoring how I feel closely.  I am not sweating at night, hair dry.  However, in our heat the back of my neck sweats with the slightest exertion.  (It never used to before my oestrogen stopped working when I had a prolactinoma and pre hysterectomy - in fact I barely sweated at all!)

I am ready to slap on a patch should I feel it is failing - I don't need the suffering!  I must say I was not so tired when I was using both while waiting for the pellet to give me signs of working.  But it could be something else.

Manuela - if you still have your uterus you should take progesterone as well to stop the buildup of the uterus lining and ultimately prevent cancer, which I am sure you already know.  I have also read about circumstances when too much oestrodiol converts to oestrion but I cannot remember the circumstances and it did not apply to my situation.

I have not had time to investigate oestrogen receptors yet.  It is an interesting concept.

I have been reading in the newspaper lately that some compound chemists are not using quality ingredients and are able to get away with it because, e.g. in the US they do not come under the FDA regulations.  I could not find out about Australia, and did not check the UK.  Mostly it appeared to be about 'natural' (herbal) style of menopause treatments, and other similar treatments.

In any case, we must make sure we order from highly recommended compound chemists.  I was referred to the company I use by a compound chemist in my city who does not make pellets but I have had my doubts at times when it was not working.  I suggest everyone google it extensively and try to find out if the compound chemist they use is highly recommended and use quality ingredients.