How much Magnesium?

Hello Alexandria, No one told me I should take them.  I thought I was supposed to do that, and have been taking them for a very long time  I should get blood work back soon and will find out if that was included.  If not, I will request it.  Thank you!!!

Hi I think that getting a check would be good if they haven't already done it, our bodies are v good at absorbing nutritiants and vitamins from the food we eat so long as you have a healthy diet.

Sometimes taking OTC vitamins can actually be not such a good idea

I've been taking Calcium for many years because I thought I was supposed to after been over certain age.  I have never been told I'm deficient of any vitamins/minerals and didn't test for them either up until now.  I don't have the results just yet, but may need some since I don't eat a lot of leafy greens and such.  I will do better in the future though.  

I took Esomeprazole for about 3 years for acid reflux but not taking it anymore.  I will make sure to include K2 supplements.... So much to learn.  You are right doctors are not well verse on all these and if they are they do not share the information, unless you ask and request it.  This is serious and should be included in standard yearly check ups.  Thank you!!!

I started taking calcium supplements when I hit midlife, too.  I suppose it's helped.  If you google healthunlocked my osteoporosis journey you'll find my story, although it turned out osteopenia (low bone mass) was the correct diagnosis.

Hello Lynne, I have not tried to calculate my daily Ca intake from my diet alone, but it's on my list of things to do. My doctor told me to take 1200 Mg a day before even getting the blood work results back.  So I'll just have to figured this out on my own.  I am also taking 2000 IU of D3, but I'm not taking K2, and you and everyone else have emphasized the importance of it, so I will definitely get started on it. 

Thank you so much for the feedback and for sharing about supplements you take. Best Regard!   

Hi lynne73895

Can you please give more detail on the time frames and levels of your Vit D? I am specifically interested in how long you space the tests and how you assess the supplements/diets/sunlight(?) effect on the Vit D level. I was 45mmol/L, after 10-15 min/day sunshine in Perth summer (I used to avoid totally) and around 1300 iu Vit D supplement I measured 69nmol/l around 50% increase in 7 weeks. I have not been tested for 6 months and we are in winter so less sun overhead and more clouds. I note you aim for 140-170nmol/l. Since some say under 50nmol is deficient and others say under 70nmol, how did you decide what was best for you as I understand Vit D action is complex and takes a while to address bone issues. You also mention Vit A - I have not seen much about its interaction with osteo, also your coment on Mag, my levesl are lower normal, I had assumed that proper diet would be OK, even though I do supplement with Vit D, K2, Calcium, Zinc  and Mag, also Vit A but thats justbecause I take cod liver oil for more Vit D. Have you any thoughts on boron as well? I am supplementing with 4mg/day and added various foods (maybe anouth 3-4mg/day, and noticed improvement in joint stiffness within a week (i assume I have mild osteoarthritis at 60yrs as when I wake up I am mildly stiff/achy but loosen up quickly. Boron seems to help very fast, hoping it has a good effect on osteporosis. As I have celiac and other intolerances I have foolishly removed too much from my diet over the years so probably deficient in quite of few of these. Thanks you for you post, appreciate any more info if you have. 

Hi tBulley.   I've just been looking on my external PC drive, to check my nutrition  spreadsheets from 2011, to see my vit D intake, to try to be accurate in my information and got rather bogged down! 

 

I tend to have the vit D blood tests in approximately March and October.

I cannot rely on the sun shine in the UK,  we don't usually get very much, this past 2 months with sun and no rain is the rare exception.   You cannot standardise how each of us will produce vit D, even if we were side by side in the sun. According to Dr. Mercola, a  person with a darker skin or even a good tan, with not make as much D as a person with very pale skin.  I'm in the latter group.

I aim for 140 to 170nmol/L.  I cannot provide you with a specific reference, but I have seen these figures quoted a number of times, for all round general health benefits. I have no idea if my bones are improving because I cannot get repeat DEXA scans with been on Strontium Ranelate, but I can say that since I've had this level of vit D,since 2013,  I haven't had a cold, flu or any other seasonal infection, even though I work with staff who seem to come down with every infection that's doing the rounds. 

I'm presently getting my vit A from cod liver oil. If the assay value is correct, one 2.5 ml  teaspoon  gives me 2300 IU of A retinol.  I try to take it on alternative days, as it gives me the trots if I take it every day.

 I take Mg daily, even though the GP said not to, as my level was just above the normal range in 2011. ie 1.05 nmol/L (normal range of 0.7 to 1.0 nmol/L)  I had already started taking Mg supplements by then.  I haven't had it checked since.

The problem arises because once we start upping our D levels, we  need to make sure our Mg,  A and K2 are also increased, as these all work together.  In my neck of the woods, routine blood tests to monitor D, A and K2 are not  available and unfortunately if they were, the 'unknown'  higher levels required to keep our bones healthy,  would almost certainly be out side the 'normal' range, for folk who don't have OP.

I do buy  boron and generally take 2 x 3 mg tablets.  I also take 500 mg of vit C daily. 

As for my D3 intake.  This has varied over the years.  

I was diagnosed in 2010 after breaking both wrists.   I didn't have a base line D test then, but I was taking daily Calcichew D3 plus another one which I cannot remember the name of, but according to my spreadsheets,  my overall D3 intake was varying roughly between 1000 and 2000 IU.

My first   vit D blood level was 137 nmol in May 2011. I was told to stop taking the Calcichew D3 because my Ca intake was too high and to buy a separate D3 of 1000 IU. 

I continued to take 1000 IU most days and a repeat D test in 2013 showed my level had come down to 91 nmol/L     I wanted it above this level so I started taking 2000 IU per day, until my order of 5000 IU D3  arrived. I took this 5 days a week and a repeat D test in October 2013, showed a level of 172 nmol/L which I was happy with.  

I more of less continued this dose, and got results of March 2014 172nmol,   Sep 2014: 176 nmol/L March 2015, 185 nmol/L  getting a bit high so started taking it alternative days. Oct 2015: 291 nmol/l

Too high so stopped taking it for 1 month, 

I unfortunately had a full bottle of 5000 IU D3 and didn't want to waste them, so started taking one  approx every 3rd day. 

Feb 2016 repeat test gave 192 nmol/L. Started taking them a couple of times a week.  Changed to 2000 IU D3 in Dec 2016.Jan 2017  blood test gave 165 nmol/L  Continued to take 2000 IU between 2 and 3 times a week.

Oct 2017 140 nmol/L    taking 2000 IU on alternative days. 

March 2018  results 145 nmol/L.   still taking it on alternative days.( with A cod liver Oil on the other day)  Will see what it is in Oct and  probably increase to daily. 

I'm sure the above only goes to show that it can be a bit hit and miss, especially when you are  trying to fit in other fat soluble vitamins etc into a busy schedule.

Best wishes and I hope I haven't caused you too much confusion.

 

 

I forgot to say in my reply that’s still being moderated, is that your D level improvement of 50% in 7 weeks is very good and shows the power of your sunshine. Keep doing what you are doing!

Best wishes

I have fair skin but its also thin and reactive, gets eczema and feel the cold/have little subcutaneous fat. I have actively avoided the sun for last couple of decades. However now expose 10-20 mins many days/week and assume that as I supplement modestly (1000-1600iu/day), my skin must be quite effective producing Vit D.

I have checked out the various recommendations, Australian Vit D council promoting 75nmol minimum, others say 50nmol is lower minimum. I have not tested since Dec 2017 at 69nmol, I will retest, hope I am now above 100nmol and aim to stay there. Interesting point about your robust immune system re colds etc, I have a have a weak immune system with allergies and food intolerances and susceptible to colds. I go through phases with stronger resistance and have been pretty good for past 9 months, attribute this to my better levels of Vit D. Also felt my memory/cognitive ability was slipping, and also appears to be better/sharper in past few months, something Vit D is also supposed to be used for in the brain neurons etc. Have you noticed any change/improvement in your cognitive?

I take similar amount cod liver/day, but am a bit casual measuring exact dosage, might also explain why I get the trots so will alternate this and measure more accurately

It looks like the K2 supps I have been taking along with Calcium and Vit D are quite low and not giving the 1-200mcg/day required so I will be upping these

So your Vit D levels have generally been high, but you did not measure when you broke your wrists in 2010? Do you think based upon diet and supplements and sunshine that your Vit D levels were low in 2010?

Thanks for the info, its all very complex, with interactions between quite a few Vits and minerals, different opinions on required levels, varying levels in foods depending upon grass/grain fed etc and then the actual effectiveness on various health aspects. While I think many doctors could do a lot better  with their approach to treat and advise patients, its hard for them to navigate our limited knowledge of it all. I guess since we have moved from an evolved food supply over millenia to a manufactured one in just the past few decades, we are discovering that health and goodness is not skin deep when it comes to our foods.

Boron is suprisingly hard to source in Perth Australia, as it seems there is no mineral regulation authority and no $ incentive for pharma companies to promote Boron

Hi tBulley

Just seen your reply and I happened to reread mine and found an error. So much for my cognitive powers and observation!

My vit D level in Oct 2015 wasn't 291,   but was 219 nmol/L. I do check before I send, but managed to miss this one. 

Talking about cognitive change. When I worked in the Path Lab, which I retired from 11 yrs ago,   I was very good at multi tasking and would have a number of tests / timers going at the same time without problems.  Now my long term Lab friends and I joke that we all dread meeting faces we know from the Lab unexpectedly, as we  cannot recall their names, even though they always seem to know ours.

Age can be so unkind. Perhaps if I wasn't taking vit D, I would be much worse now.

I have no idea what my D level would have been prior to breaking my wrists. My GP didn't do any blood tests. Her logic was that everyone has a low D level, so its a waste of NHS money requesting one.   It was only when I fell out with her over treatment, because I had stopped taking the AA due to problems and was buying Strontium citrate, that she allowed me to have an NHS Consultants appointment.  That resulted in me have a basic blood screen, including vit  D test, that the Consultant arranged. All subsequent D tests I have arranged and paid for, using a postal, finger prick blood collection kit, which I get tested at a NHS hospital lab.

I've still no idea what to do when my Strontium Ranelate supply finishes and I must admit I do worry about it.

Best wishes

 

Hi. tbulley

An interesting selection of foods, but in my case showing why I personally need K2 in supplement form, to reach a reasonable intake.

The quantities shown on the chart are far in excess of what would be a ‘normal’  portion for me.  

For example,  5 ozs is about 150g.   I would never eat more than 100g of any meat, which provides approximately 24g of quality protein. Any more than this, especially if beef,  upsets my guts.  Probably after being a vegetarian for 40 plus years, until I started breaking bones.

I love strong, matured Cheddar cheese, but again wouldn’t eat more than 40g a day.  I haven't seen a K2  value for this, but tend to assume it’s at least  as good as Gouda.

 

Thanks for posting the list.   Most helpful.   Best wishes.

 

According to this obtuse study, soft, unprocessed cheeses give the best mix of K2, so cheddar does but needs to be fresh, full fat and then gives a range of the MK but got a huge amount of MK7. Looks like natto, fermented soy is the standout to get a good dose of MK7 and when in this form they are absorbed much better than when taken in supplements. From what I have read, go for edam, gouda, Jarlsberg if you can to get the best return. If you can decipher the specific amounts buried in the jargon for cheddar full fat, let us know what the excat number is.

https://academic.oup.com/cdn/article/1/6/e000638/4558638

Unfortunately I have no idea what the function/ clinical benefits  are of all the other MK’s.  All the dairy I eat is full fat, as it stands to reason if you remove the fat, you are also removing the fat soluble nutrients. 

i will continue to eat strong, mature Cheddar and Danish Blue which both taste delicious, especially  when compared to  Edam and Gouda. 

As you say Natto does best reqarding Mk7.  but it’s not readily available in this area. Not that I would buy it now.

 I was given tofu one time on holiday in a small private hotel.  I was the only vege in our group and she had prepared it specially for me.  I couldn’t get it down without almost heaving.  Even my hubby refused to try it.  I was mortified!  Never again.  I believe natto is even worse.  I will keep taking the Mk7/ mk4 supplements. 

Thanks for posting. Best wishes.

 

I don't much like tofu either, but it's pretty neutral and it would depend how it was prepared.  I've had very nice tofu prepared by our local excellent Szechuan-style restaurant and in olden days when I cooked I used to make a delicious "cheese" cake using tofu.  I believe natto is the whole bean which is allowed to "ferment" for a few days with a specific bacterium and the issue is mostly one of texture, which sounds absolutely vile.  Never even seen it myself.   

Speaking of preparing food especially for the "only vege in our group" I was in a similar position a few weeks ago.  After the first meal I declared I would henceforth have what everyone else was having, and just not eat the meat.  My dinner consisted of a pile of barley with some cauliflower and a tablespoon of some sort of white sauce.  Everyone else had delicious piles of vegetables with whatever their protein was, whether meat of fish I can't remember, but even their veggies were better than mine!

Natto is by far the best source of natural K2, I see that by using the natto starter bacteria from a soybean mix, it can be used to ferment others like chickpeas, lupins, peas etc. YouTubes by 'natto dad' show how these are prepared. I am not a fan of soybeans for health reasons, but I am keen to get K2 benefits from natto rather than supplement and dig it out of other foods that dont have much K2, so I will be trying to make my own using a frozen starter from a Japanese supermarket. It looks like natto is an acquired taste (or not), but how bad can it be?

Hello tbulley,

I just read the link you posted regarding K2 information and you were right.  It's easy to understand, and I didn't realize how important it is for the bones and so much more.  I'm still waiting to hear back from PG  about my blood work.  I have no idea if he included K2.  I called today and left a message and hope to hear something tomorrow.  Thank you so much!

Hi Alicia.   As far as I’m aware there isn’t a routine test available for K2, at least not in the U.K.  Best wishes.

Oh please let us know how you get on with this.  It sounds like an interesting experiment.  Reading about natto it appears it's not eaten by itself but tarted up a bit with flavourful things like soy sauce!

Hello lynne, I finally received the blood work results and as you mentioned, no K2 information  My Vitamin D, 25 OH = 39 NG/ML (I feel like it should be higher), and Calcium = 9.6 MG/DL. How I wish I could retire and focus more on my health and myself in general.  Have a great day

Hi Anhaga

Bought and ate natto, 1.6oz/45gm, so should get around 350mg of K2. Tasted fine with GF soy, mustard and rice. Its $3.50 for 4 x 45 gm packs so I should be OK with 1-2 a week. As some point I might try and make up a batch with chickpeas, but for now this is my easiest path to get enough K2, as I also eat sauerkraut. Family declined my offer to share the natto but they are all princesses.

Hi Alicia

39 ng/ml is that about 97 nmol/L?   If so that would certainly be deemed good by U.K. doctors. If you want it higher, just keep taking the tablets, as they say!  Sunshine is fine, but according to Mercola, once the skin is tanned the D manufacturing process isn’t as good.  I believe you also need a reasonable fat layer as cholesterol comes into the D making process.

I always take my D3 away from my other fat soluble vits. I know folk say that because you can buy multi vitamins that contain them all together, it doesn’t matter,  I tend to perhaps be over cautious and try to take them all apart (A, D, Mk7, mk4 )  with some fat.

I dare not add up the total I must spend on supplements, so I do my best to ensure I absorb them.   if I don’t have enough fat containing meals, I will use a teaspoon full of coconut oil instead.  It’s a healthy fat and I like the taste.  Best wishes

Oh, good for you!  One of my friends has a son who now lives in Japan with his Japanese wife.  She hates natto, but he, Canadian born and raised, quite likes it!