I cannot remember things can I take the PIP form and answer from the form on the day

I can absolutely see where you are coming from - telling the assessor to hang on whilst you find what you put down on the relevant section of the PIP2.

​However, and whilst your advice is totally valid, I do wonder where the claimant would sit if one of their conditions (and validated by the GP) is some form Dementia? How on earth would they be able to recite something from their short term memory if it is shot to pieces?

Ramona hasn't claimed to be suffering from dementia so that is not relevant to this thread. From what I understand any assessment based on dementia is done in a totally different way and a carer would speak for the claimant. It would then be up to the carer to remember what was put on the PIP2 form.

Hi I didn't see where she said she has dementia, she said she has memory lapses which is common with anxiety and depression but is not a good enough reason to read from your forms, I don't think it will be too much of a problem to say I don't remember and let them read the backup medical reports that she has sent in ??

Hi Anthony, I know that she hasn't said that she has been diagnosed with Dementia - just memory lapses.

But to a lesser extent both are similar.

In what way would the assessment differ? I have first hand experience of this following a diagnosis of early onset vascular dementia back in 2011 and notified to the DWP by my GP on the report the DWP asked for. It was also shown on the last ESA assessment claim and the Attendance Allowance claim this summer.

?In all of those face to face assessments I have always attended alone (either my wife stays out in the waiting room or in the case of the Attendance Alowwance, she went across the road to our daughters'

?Of course I had difficulty in remembering things - I couldn't talk about my 'normal' day or even what drugs I am on - instead I kept referring the assessor to what was on the claim form.

?So in my case no 'special' treatment was shown. Finally what should happen if the carer is not in attendance? There is no requirement for this to occur in any of the regulations - unless that is if the DWP have made her my appointee. 

 

In your case Les it was your choice not have someone present, you can't blame the DWP for that.

Even the DWP have to adhere to the Equalities Act and make reasonable adjustments for the disabled. For those suffering with dementia who can't speak for themselves a reasonable adjustment would be having someone else to speak for them; it is a right under law.

That said you have to get things into perspective. Someone with full blown dementia would-not have the capability to make decisions like whether a carer or relative should or should-not be present and usually someone has power of attorney to act for them. You may have 'early onset of dementia' but that is a million miles away from full blown dementia and to be blunt Les someone with a severe case of dementia wouldn’t be posting opinions on the internet.

That said in your case you should have insisted that your wife or someone else was present.

Err hang on. I know that there is a big space between the two. Choice? The notes to the application forms (ESA. DLA, IIDB) only say that you CAN have someone with you, not SHOULD. Given the vulnerability criteria set by the DWP, should it not have be their responsibility to make sure someone comes along to help me with the answers?

​And the CAN situation is entirely at the discretion of the assessor. The main reason why my wife stopped coming in with me was because in times past she was refused entry by the assessor on the basis that the room was too small and there was no chair available - (ESA).

​I am getting a rather tad bit fed up with people including the DWP putting the onus on the claimant to not only do the work which the assessor/DM should be doing (applying for further evidence - quite honestly there really is no point in putting down the names of those that care for you as they are never contacted in any event) and now citing the Equalities Act to the assessor to claim a right under law.

​I thought that the PIP application process was supposed to be fair and even handed? Would you consider that we are now moving towards having a sollicitor being present (so as to protect the claimant’s rights), his/her secretary who would take down in shorthand everything that is said (no recording of the PIP assessment is allowed without the proper equipment as stipulated by the DWP), that the claimant is now required to prove (with verifiable evidence) that the claimed difficulties are as put on the PIP2 (to avoid the inevitable comment from the assessor to the DWP of ‘claimant provided no specialist input’ being made and finally a representative of the claimant to answer questions that the claimant cannot answer (or not want).

How on earth at 68 am I supposed to organise all of that?

Les the Equality Act gives a disabled person the right to request a reasonable adjustment. Therefore if you request someone to accompany you due to your disability then they must conform or face the prospect of a court claim for disability discrimination.

However, the disabled person (or their representative) has the responsibility to let the service provider (in this case the DWP/ATOS etc.) know that they require a reasonable adjustment. It is prudent to let the assessors know in advance of any difficulties you many have at the assessment. Indeed on the ESA50 form you are encouraged to let them know.

If you turn up at to the assessment without warning the things become a little bit murky. If it is obvious that someone needs an adjustment and it is possible to provide it (for example someone in a wheelchair has an assessment on the second floor but there are no lifts so the assessment is moved to the ground floor) then the adjustment should be carried out.

However, you can’t expect the assessors or the DWP to second guess every situation without the co-operation of the disabled person. If you required someone with you because of your disability then you should tell them in advance. What you can’t do is keep quiet and the moan about it afterwards. If you’re going to reply that you did inform them and they didn’t comply then you should have issued a disability discrimination claim against the service provider.

Sorry to answer your last paragraphs if you believe you don’t have capacity to fill forms in then get someone to have a power of attorney for you and they can do it.

TBH Les the PIP process is far from perfect but if you follow the correct procedure you will get a positive outcome. You seem to base everything on your own frame of reference. There are millions of people in receipt of PIP/AA they have been successful so it is possible to get an award. I agree the assessors should be the ones obtaining evidence but it seems that is not practical and I agree they don’t do it.

However, a claimant can easily access their medical records at a very low cost. It is worth the inconvenience to save the extra hassle further down the line. I’m pragmatic in my outlook which means I comprise to get the best ending possible, maybe there is a lesson there for you.

Thanks, that makes complete sense. No I didn't inform them specifically of any needs - I presumed that the ESA50 and the DLA1 forms made it pretty obvious. Giving chapter and verse about how having mental health conditions (PTSD, Frontal Lobe damage, Depression Early Onset Dementia etc) made it difficult for me to in part understand a question but more importantly the difficulties I have with trying to find the words to formulate a reply. At no time was my wife (who took me there and was sat next to me in the waiting room) asked to come in with me.

?Although this doesn't apply in my case - I'm quite intelligent and I know that I would have great difficulty in issuing court proceedings under the Equalities Act. So I doubt that that action even if it is entirely valid, is ever taken. 

Anthony, I have already mentioned in past posts that I actually am proactive in obtaining medical evidence from my GP and all of the hospitals that I am under. My GP charges a maximum of £75 for copies of ALL my records - the hospitals similar. I used to spend upwards of £350 every couple of years getting this together. I wouldn't say that is 'low cost' at an average of up to £175 every year.

?My point about further evidence is that the DWP appear to be intent on re-writing the regulations to suit themselves and therefore keeping their costs down. What they should be doing and what was intended from day one is now being gradually eroded by them.It is almost at a point where the DWP are refusing to make a fair and honest award on the basis that the claimant hasn't sent in enough of the 'right' evidence. This is now being seen with the reports being made including the stock phrase - ‘claimant provided no specialist input’.

The lack of evidence angle is certainly not what my problem is.

?My main issue is the completion of the claim forms where I feel it necessary and appropriate to not just give full details of what my difficulties are but I also try to balance it to show that I am not someone that wallows in pity and give details and examples of how I manage my daily life using 'work arounds'. I explain how I try to live my life even with the difficulties described. I like to give a balanced picture which to me is the right thing to do. People who say that their difficulties stops them doing everything including sleeping is in the main a, over exaggeration - with thought and help most can live a life.

?My next issue are the assessments. I simply cannot find a way of explaining everything properly - in fact most of my answers are uh, um, well...ah. I feel rushed and ignored. I get irratated with the situation the assessor puts me in and consequently I get angry because I feel that the assessor isn't giving me the time to answer. The whole thing then breaks down and I just give up from thereon in.

?Having my wife with me would create additional stress if I thought that she is having to answer for me - uh I'm here you know - should she get annoyed then that would probably create open warfare as I will not allow my wife to be treated in that way.

?Yes I am guilty of hijacking threads and I'm sorry.

But trying to get things out of my head onto paper leads me to this action - I certainly don't mean any disrespect to anybody.

Just to finish off, I used to spend hours and hours running into days completing the claim forms. I'm not stupid in not understanding the questions on it. I explain it as it is - how my life actually is - the good bits and the bad bits.

?To then find out that the DWP tell me that they don't believe a damned word I have written (which was backed up with evidence) simply annoys and angers me. They in fact accept the assessors report that I have dogs that I take for long walks and still play rugby at a senior level over what I have said with supporting evidence. Why carry on with the charade is where I am at now. The whole thing makes me ill with additional stress.