i have been on Bisoprolol taking half per day From October 2014-30 September 2016

Hi Bob you seem to be monitoring yourself a lot  I take my lung function and pulse in the morning and that's it for the day I just get on with my life and I won't allow tablets to dictate how I live it  .

 

It's not that simple or black and white.

Before BBs, I used to measure my BP once a year since I have a normal BP.

And I never measured my heart rate. Never.

Why would anyone measure HR if you don't have any problems?

I did have a few SPVT episodes over years and a doc gave me BBs (Bisoprolol) to avoid these episodes. After 1-2 Months on BBs, I started to feel strange. Back then I didn't know too anything about BBs, I didn't know anything about side effects, withdrawal etc. I thought that they are just simple pills, like when you have a flu, you take a few pills and you get better and nothing happens.

So, I thought that it is just a drug which will cure your original disease and nothing bad will happen in your life/usual style of life because of this drug.

I thought: I will take BBs, I won't get Spvt episodes anymore and everything will be 100% the same as before. A win-win situation, it seemed quite simple.

But as I have said, after 2 Months of taking them, I started to feel worse and worse. Before BBs I was walking quite fast 1 hour everyday (4-5 kilometers) easily and living a 99% normal life with 100s of activities, without any problems, without high HR, without breathing problems, without being tired, sleepy, dizzy or anything, I was fit and normal (except playing sports in the last few years due to those recent arrhytmia problems).

After 2 Months of taking BBs, one day while walking, I have just stopped after 10 minutes (for the first time in my life) and said to myself: I have no strength anymore, I can't walk further, I feel very bad and very strange. After that day, it started to happen more and more often, and I was able to walk shorter and shorter distances. On majority of days I wasn't able to walk longer than 4-5 minutes without feeling extremely ill, tired, out of breath, needing to stop and sit down for 10-15 minutes.

I felt as a 80 years old suddenly, even though I am 30.

Then came problems with breathing (as if you can't take a deep breath while resting, sitting or doing anything). I mean, this can't be in your head since I never had this problems in my life, and suddenly on BBs I started to have some breathing issues.

(An interesting thing, when I have quit BBs, my breathing improved after a few weeks to a normal state where you can breathe easily and take deep breaths without any problems).

Then a flu like symptoms all day long, going to bed early in the afternoon because you are dead tired.

I asked docs what's happening, they said: it's probably your original disease, that's it. Or, you need to walk more to get back in the shape.

I asked: how am I supposed to walk when I feel this bad all the time and walking only makes it worse?

So, I thought that I am very sick and that I won't be able to walk or live normally again. I thought that this is my future life from now on.

After one year of that hell and depression, I started to read internet forums with side effects from BBs, and on topics like this one, I figured out that 100s of people around the worlkd on BBs have the same problems.

Then I tried to stop taking them, but then a strong withdrawal kicked me (I didn't know too much about withdrawal back then. Docs told me: you will be fine after 1-2 weeks after quitting), with HR of 100 all day long (this is the moment when I started to measure my HR since I started to feel very ill and strange when I stopped taking them) and a HR would jump to 120-140 if you tried to walk or do any activity.

Well, in that moment I satrted to be obsessed and scared about too high HR, because it is extremely strange feeling (and quite a dangerous HR if you have it for too long, like 2-3-xx days in a row at 120 all the time). Docs then put me back on BBs since I had too hugh rate (which I never had until a withdrawal), but now, when I know more, I am quitting BBs for the 2nd time, in a very slow way.

If someone told me this story which I am telling you, 5 or 10 years ago when I was fine and when I have never heard about HR problems, BBs, breathing problems and similar, I would say: you are crazy or you think about diseases too much.

Only someone who had a bad experience with BB's side effects (since not all people feel bad on them) and who had a bad experience with a strong withdrawal lasting for Months can understand what are we talking about.

I don't mean anything bad, but you are taking BBs only for 6 weeks (I was perfectly well after 6 weeks on them. It takes some time until they start to slow down your heart, slow down your breathing after that, slow down the mechanism of creating energy for your body, it takes time for BBs to have stronger effects on your brain and adrenaline etc), plus you never tried to quit them after 1-2-5 years of taking them.

I hope that you won't have any side effects on BBs.

Plus, I hope that you will never need to experience a hell of a withdrawal, or if you do, that you will experience only minor problems for 2-3 weeks.

Hi!

Just a question about my situation. Last October I had three stents fitted in my arteries and put on a variety of medication, including Bisoprolol at 2.5mg. Over the year I have managed to get fitter at the gym after cardio rehab, jogging for 45-50 minutes 2-3 times a week. I was starting to feel dizzy and noticed my resting heart rate was hitting 48-50, when waking and at my desk in work. The Cardiologist had me reduce my Bisoprolol on Saturday to 1.25mg as a result.

Saturday I felt great, Friday night in the gym jogged for 50 minutes with no problem. Also did a lot of walking on Saturday. However, 3pm Sunday walking into Tesco my heart rate went right up to 106, I got really short of breath and had to stop for a while, feeling dizzy and lightheaded. Thats the only time my heart rate has gone up so much. Each day since I have had periods where I am dizzy, lightheaded, felt short of breath and had palpatations. Today I felt I was going to pass out, when visiting a client's home, made an excuse and left quickly!

Sat at my desk I'm feeling a bit better, whopping headache, but feel a bit detached. I also get quite panicky a lot.

Presume this is normal!

Mike

Forgot to add my blood pressure has gone up from last week, from 129/80 to 140/90. Blood test results all fine though.

Mike

Hi, Mike

From my experience (reading tons of scientific articles about Beta blockers, personal experience after trying to quit them for 2 times and from posts of a lot of other people who have gone through the same), well, you have lowered your dose by a half, from 2,50 to 1,25 Mg.

That's quite a huge drop and you will notice it.

You see, a problem with BBs is: if you need to take them for some reason, then if you get bad side effects, then no matter what you do, you will suffer:

1. if you will continue to take BBs, you will still have those side effects which will probably get stronger and stronger over time

2. if you will lower the dose or quit them, you will experience some kind of a withdrawal

Now, imagine that a dose of 2,50 Mg of Bisoprolol forced your heart to pump only at 80% of it's strength instead of a usual 100% (a person without Beta blockers). Now, your heart is a mucle and since it is pumping less hard now, it will get deconditioned over time to some extent. If you'll stay on BBs for life, then no problem with a 80% of workload, but if you'll try to quit them, then you are in problems...

If you'll lower the dose from 2,50 to 1,25, your heart won't pump only at 80% of it's strength anymore but at roughly 90% of it's strength.

And if your heart was pumping for 1 year at strength only 80%, then a jump to 90% will be painful for your heart.

So, you will surely experience a withdrawal now for a few weeks.

Also, BBs will make your heart pump slower and with less strength, they will widen your blood vessels, and BBs will enter into a blood-brain barrier and affect your brain (anxiety and adrenaline).

That means, that whenever you will lower the dose of BBs, you will probably experience these most usual withdrawal symptoms for some time:

1. elevated heart rate for no reason (for example, while resting 90 or 100). At any movement it will jump to 120-140-150 easily, so avoid activity for some time, sadly.

2. your BP will slightly rise because your blood vessels will be more narrow now, but BP can go down after some time also, but be careful and measure it. Luckily, there are lots of other blood pressure medicines, different than Beta blockers for a Blood pressure problems.

3. you will experience some anxiety, you will be nervous, you may feel like you have a hangover and you may be sensitive to noises, light, heat, people talking, you will lose nerves easily, like never before in your life

4. also, you may have some nausea because BBs also affect digestive system, and now when you have lowered the dose, digestive system will readjust to a more natural state and nausea will come as a symptom of that readjustment

5. also, during BBs, your body gets less blood and oxygen and your body will atrophy to some extent. Now, with a lowered dose of BBs, you will get more blood and oxygen in all your muscles and they will grow back to some extent, so be prepared to a random pain all over the body because of this (for example, your lungs will be able to breathe deeper now, and they will hurt, as if you haven't used them for some time. Which you haven't, due to BBs). The same will happen with muscles, you can have some abdominal pain, pain similar to walking after you have been bedridden for 1-2 years for example etc

6. also, people usually get some dizziness and headaches during a withdrawal, that is probably because our blood vessels in head are more narrow now and it takes some time until our body will readjust to a normal state

About the effects and timeline of a withdrawal, consider this:

My opinion is that BBs are leaving our body, bloodstream and organs in 3 ways:

1. let's say that a BB has a half life (that means: how much time it takes for a single dose of a drug taken to drop from 100% to 50% in our blood). So, if a half life is let's say 12 hours, then if you take 2,50 Mg of a drug, in 12 hours you will have 1,25 Mg of a drug left in your blood, and in 24 hours you will have 0,62 Mg left. So, if you take 2,50 Mg on a day 1 in the morning, you will still have 0,62 Mg of that dose left in you on a day2 in the morning when you'll take a new dose. On the 3rd day, you will have 0,16 Mg from the 1st day, 0,62 Mg from the 2nd day and 2,50 Mg from the 3rd day. On the 4th day, you will have 0,04 Mg from the 1st day, 0,16 Mg from the 2nd day, 0,62 Mg from the 3rd day and 2,50 Mg from the 4th day.

So, in numbers:

Day 1: 2,50 Mg of BB in your blood

Day 2: 2,50 (from a day2)+0,62 (from a day1)=3,12 Mg of BB in blood

Day 3: 2,50 (day3)+0,62 (day2)+0,16 (day 1)=3,28 Mg of BB in blood

Day 4: 2,50+0,62+0,16+0,04=3,32 Mg of BB in your blood

So, BBs slowly accumulate in our bodies until they get to a steady state after some time.

Now, when you lower the dose of BBs, let's say from 2,50 Mg to 1,25 Mg, your drop will be visible in 2 ways:

1) first, you will take only 1,25 Mg on that (first) day, so that is a first way how your level of BBs will drop. So, on that day you will have: 1,25 Mg from today+0,62 Mg from the day before+0,16 from 2 days ago+0,04 from 3 days ago etc=2,07 Mg on that day. While, on a day before, you had around 3,32+ Mg (as explained above 2,50+0,62+0,16+0,04 etc). So, on a first day when you lower the dose, you will see a drop from 3,32 Mg in your blood to 2,07 Mg in your blood. And then, some people may think: I have lowered the dose for a half, and I don't feel any withdrawal symptoms. Well, that's good, but now look at this: You will have 3,32+ (or more) Mg in your blood on your last day with 2,50 Mg doses. On a first day with 1,25 Mg you will drop to 2,07 Mg in your blood. But then, on each new day, even though you will take the same 1,25 Mg dose on each day, you will have less and less of BBs in your blood, since those leftovers of older doses of 2,50 Mg will slowly day by day get out of your system.

So, it was: 3,32 Mg in your blood on a last day with 2,50 Mg doses.

Day 1 on a 1,25 Mg: 1,25 (today)+0,62 (yesterday, still a 2,50 dose)+0,16 (2 days ago, still a 2,50 dose)+0,04 (3 days ago, still a 2,50 dose)=2,07 Mg

Day 2 on a 1,25 Mg: 1,25 (today)+now only 0,31 from a previous day (1,25 dose) instead of 0,62 Mg before+0,16 (2 days ago, still 2,50 dose)+0,0,4 (3 days ago, still 2,50 dose) etc=1,71 Mg

Day 3 on a 1,25 Mg: 1,25 (new dose)+0,31 (new dose)+0,08 (new dose)+0,04 (old dose)=1,68 Mg

Day 4 on a 1,25 Mg: 1,25+0,31+0,08+0,02=1,66 Mg etc

So, you see, in 4 days after taking a lowered dose, your amount of BBs in your blood will drop this way:

Day 0: 3,32 Mg

Day 1: 2,07 Mg

Day 2: 1,71 Mg

Day 3: 1,68 Mg

Day 4: 1,66 Mg etc

So, you see, we have lowered the dose from 2,50 Mg to 1,25 Mg, BUT the real effects will NOT be visible on a day1 on a new dose, but after 4-5-6-7-10 days on a new dose, when leftovers from a 2,50 Mg will be gone. Then we will really know how well we cope on a new dose.

Also, you have to be aware that older people have slower metabolism of drugs and that their liver and kidneys work slightly slower. But then, even some younger people process these drugs somewhat slower.

That means that this effect explained above will be even slower in reality, than only 4-5 days. That means that a level of BBs in your blood will slowly go down, my estimation, over the next 2-3-4 weeks, since we have a lot of BBs stored all over our body, in all organs, in brain, inside of a blood-brain barrier and in bloodstream.

So, what I have explained are 2 ways how a level of BBs is getting lower.

Then, the 3rd way how BBs are leaving our bodies is through a blood-brain barrier. All BBs (Metoprolol, Propranolol, Bisoprolol, Nebivolol) except Atenolol are crossing a Blood-brain barrier (that is a different type of a bloodstream around our brains with a different set of rules than in a regular blood stream). And these BBs which crossed that barrier, are entering into our brain, plus affecting a central nervous system (heart rate, breathing rate) and lots of other things (vivid dreams for example, dizziness, headaches, poor memory, weirdo head feeling, depersonalization). Anyway, it seems that BBs are lasting much longer in that bloodstream inside of a Blood-brain barrier than in a normal bloodstream.

So, in shorter, in a first few days, you will experience a first withdrawal with elevated HR, elevated BP, dizziness, headaches, nausea and similar.

And over the next 2-3-4 weeks, it will continue as a level of BBs will drop slowly towards a new 1,25 dose.

So, after some time your body will readjust and you will feel better, but these symptoms may last for 1-2-3-4 months easily.

Also, a brain withdrawal (anxiety and being nervous) will come after 2-3-4 weeks since BBs stay longer inside of a blood brain barrier. So, it will take longer until Bisoprolol will drop from 2,50 Mg to 1,25 Mg in your brain and in brain's blood.

When that happens, you will probably experience the last (and the longest, for most of the people) symptom: anxiety and being too nervous all the time for no apparent reason.

This happens because BBs were blocking our adrenaline in our body. And our body readjusted to that state where it doesn't have to deal with too much of adrenaline.

Now, when you lowered your dose (or when you quit BBs), your body won't have a protection from adrenaline anymore (your body forgot how to deal with it, to some extent), and now: if you'll watch sports, you will get too excited too easily, you'll have to stop watching. If you'll watch movies, you will be too excited after 5-10 minutes, your HR will jump to 100-120 for no reason. If you'll hear a bad news, it will kick you 10 times stronger than during normal days etc.

About your specific case, it is advised to avoid physical activity during a withdrawal, because our hearts are quite weak in those weeks and they are under a lots of pressure (they have to work harder now, and they are extremely tired all day long).

So, you'll see that your heart will hurt from time to time even while resting. And a simple walking to a bathroom will be a hell on some days.

If you'll try to run and work in a gym, you can easily end at ER.

My advice would be: don't go to a gym for a few weeks.

If you'll feel bad in the beginning, just stay at home in your bed.

If you'll feel good, try to walk outside for 10 minutes and try to see how will your heart react in upcoming hours (I usually have no problems while walking, but then later when I sit down, like 2-3 hours later, my heart starts to beat too fast, resting HR 90-100, and then you can see that a heart is now exhausted after a simple walking and that it takes a few hours until it gets more energy again and until it drops to a resting HR 70-75-80).

I had to go to ER twice during a withdrawal after a simple housework, cleaning and walking.

Each of us is different, but please, don't do strenous activity now.

I have found some articles on internet with stats that during first 21 days of a withdrawal, people have way higher chances to get episodes of a dangerous arrhytmia, angina, dangerously high BP or even a heart attack for no reason.

Also, my advice: you will have good and bad days during a withdrawal (like 3 good days, then 3 bad days, then 3 good days, 1 bad day, 5 good days, 3 bad days again, and then it will get better and better). So, if you'll have a 3-4 good days in a row: don't think right away that you are fine now. Bad days will come back again, sadly.

Imo, when you'll have 7-10 good days in a row, then you are on a right track and feel free to do more walking (slowly) or some light excercise (but listen to your body later that day to see how your HR and lungs will respond).

Again, as you see in your case, docs will tell you that you will be fine if you drop from 2,50 to 1,25, and that nothing will happen.

But I am quite sure that you will have at least 2-4 horrible weeks now until you'll feel better.

Good luck, and ask if you'll need more help. Cheers

Bob,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply, it certainly explains why I am feeling like I am at the moment. Certainly today noticed more breathlessness and feeling dizzy, thinking I was going to pass out, perhaps this is more Anxiety, like you say.

Tonight suffering from some palpitations, odd feeling, but my heart rate has been around 58-60, can just feel the odd thump!

Managed to get to the supermarket again today, not as bad as Sunday, walked slower, and my heart rate never really went any higher than mid 80s, certainly nowhere near the 106 of Sunday.

With respect to the Gym, be missing that for 2-3 weeks until I'm better. I was never able to get my heart rate above 134 when on 2.50mg, so when I'm OK hoping to get a bit higher. I am hoping to get through the withdrawl a bit quicker due to being a lot fitter and working the heart a lot in the past few months, but on the upside some time off from the gym will help my achilles get better!

Certainly is an odd feeling, palpitations, breathless, anxious (hoping dont freak out in the Dentist tomorrow!), dizzy, lightheaded. I think this weekend will be a quiet one!

Cheers,

Mike 

Feel free to update your problems and ask whatever you need.

In your case, you may experience a weaker withdrawal (I hope so), because you were in a good shape and you went to a gym all the time on BBs (I wasn't able to walk on majority of days, so that was impossible).

About breathlessness, I experienced some strange breathlessness during a withdrawal on some days.

My opinion was this: your HR was 60 during rest, and 130 while running at the gym. Let's say that you had 10 breaths per minutes with a HR 60 and 15 breaths per minute with a HR 134.

(Heart rate and a number of breaths are connected. The higher is your HR, then your body needs more oxygen and thus your breathing rate goes up).

And now, your body, your heart and your lungs adjusted to this new (slower) rhytm.

So, since your heart was beating slow both at rest and while running, you didn't need that much of oxygen (if you get me), and your lungs were working also on that "slower" level.

When you lower the dose of BBs, you resting HR will go up (not only because of a withdrawal. It will go up to 70-75 later, since that is a normal resting HR and not 60) and with a higher HR, your lungs will need to take more breaths per minute to send more oxygen to your body.

Now, you see, since your resting HR and a HR while walking jumped lately, it means that your heart is pumping faster and with stronger beats, and your heart and body need more oxygen from lungs (since again, if you had a HR 60, it needed a certain amount of oxygen distributed per minute. Now on 75 HR per minute, you will need 25% more oxygen from your lungs. So, your lungs will need to work harder now). And again, your heart and lungs have been re-adjusted to that situation where you had a HR 60 while resting, and now a HR 75 or 90 while resting is a huge stress for those 2 organs who have to work at 120% or 130% of their previous average workload.

So, imo, current breathlessness is not from anxiety but from your heart beating too fast now and your body is asking for too much oxygen currently, and your lungs are deconditioned (to some extent, compared to your normal default state when you were healthy, due to BBs) and your lungs can't deliever required amount of oxygen currently.

And then you get out of breath whatever you do.

It happened to me also in the beginning of a withdrawal, and it will get better each new day as your heart and lungs will be in a better and better shape (they are adjusting all the time to new situations, so they will try to readjust in upcoming weeks to this new situation where your heart beats faster and where you need more oxygen. When those 2 organs will readjust, withdrawal will be finished).

Also, be prepared for some pains in an area of lungs (I had a feeling that my lungs hurt) in these early days.

My feeling was: you know that feeling when you work/run too much in a gym and then all your muscles hurt in upcoming days, since you weren't in a good shape?

Well, I had a similar type of pain around my lungs in early days of a withdrawal (probably because lungs were deconditioned due to BBs, and now when they had to breathe much faster all day long, they probably "hurt" the same as all other muscles in our body).

If you'll have those problems on some days, don't worry, it will go away after a few hours.

Plus, you were in a much better shape, so maybe you'll avoid a lot of these problems.

About breathlessness, on the other hand, it can be a physical symptom of anxiety also. So, it may be from your body needing more oxygen or a physical symptom of anxiety due to a withdrawal.

About anxiety, 2 docs told me that you can take small amounts of Valium or Xanax during a withdrawal to calm down your HR, BP and anxiety, until your body readjusts in a natural way.

Other people said that a lot of water, vitamins, resting/a lot of sleep, magnesium and fish oil helped them during a withdrawal to get it over faster.

 

Thanks Bob,

Felt a bit better today, able to go to the Dentist in the morning, was anxious beforehand but went ok. Unfortunately I might have pushed myself a bit too much during the day as towards the end of Work I was exhausted and felt quite lightheaded and breathless. When I got home I had to sit down for a bit followed by 30 minutes on the bed.

Incidently, my heart rate, even though I have reduced Bisoprolol from 2.5 to 1.25, still remains low. Was 53 earlier when relaxed in the house and pretty much didnt move much from between that and about 60 (60 as I'm typing now). When moving arouund and doing whatever in Work or at Home it does go up, so I guess this is normal. I am due to have 24 hour ECG monitoring soon, so should see if that's normal.

Mike

When I was taking Bisoprolol last year and when I tried to quit it, I haven't felt anything for the first 2-3 weeks after quitting, even though I was taking 1/3 of 1,25 tablet in the last Month.

Then, after 20 days, suddenly HR jumped to 100 while resting, huge anxiety, dizziness etc.

It seems that Bisoprolol stays for quite long in your blood (much longer than half life says), at least in my case and I was "covered" with significant doses in ym bloodstream even for 20 days after quitting.

Then it hit me...

Either way, we will see in upcoming days.

But still, a fact that you felt bad at the end of the day means that something is changing and something is happening inside of your body.

Have you been exhausted at the end of a day while you were at 2,50 Mg doses?

 

No, never felt exhausted at the end of the day on 2.5mg. The only reason I was put on a reduced dose was when my resting heart rate was getting low as I was getting fitter, resulting in my feeling dizzy sometimes, but not like this.

Hi Bob,

Just an update. I ended up in Hospital as felt like having a heart attack! Paramedic believed it was due to the beat blocker dose reduction. The tests all came back clear - blood tests, oxygen in blood good, 3 ecg's, only issue being my heart rate on occasion was a little low. I have been off work since. That was about two weks ago. Since then there has been some improvement, able to walk the dog OK, though today I think I went a little too fast and got quite short of breath, having to stop 3-4 times. Was shattered when I got home.

My blood pressure is back to normal and heart rate fine. Only issues now being shortness of breath (also notice this when talking too long!), some anxiety and lightheadedness. Also sometimes find it difficult to sleep, which is annoying. Certainly better than the first few days after the dosage was reduced. My main concern is the shortness of breath and dizziness if I over exert, though this is reducing!

Mike 

Hi, Mike

I am sorry that you have problems.

On the other hand, so many people on these forums have exactly the same problems when they quit BBs, and most of us end at ER (a few times), but yet, majority of docs will tell you: quitting of BBs is not a problem, you were on a small dose, you should be fine in 2 weeks.

Well, that's not true at all.

Anyway, I had to drive myself to ER twice when I tried to quit them for the first time, and after my 2nd visit, docs told me that it is not a withdrawal (a classical sinus tachycardia for no reason, like in your case), and that I need to take BBs again.

I listened to them and returned back to BBs, but a few months later, I started to wean off again, this time little by little. This time it was much better, but it was still a very tough and long ride.

In the beginning you will have high HR all the time. After 1-2 Months, your HR will get better, but eventually, for no reason, you will have the same episodes but shorter and shorter. So, if today you had too high HR for 7 days in a row, all day long, eventually it will drop to a few hours per day, and then once in 3 days, then once in 7 days for 1-2 hours etc.

But it will get back over and over for a loooong time.

Nausea will be here in the first 1-2 Months and random pain in the abdomen.

Anyxiety seems to last the longest. A lot of people reported that once their HR, BP and other problems were almost normal, anxiety lasted for 4-12 Months.

Even though, it also gets lower and lower and you should try to go out of your house more often and "re-learn" your brain little by little to fight with a normal life situations.

Dizziness, it comes and goes in cycles (for a few days) especially after an activity sometimes, or when anxiety kicks you.

Shortness of breath, your heart was beating at 50 or 60 on BBs, and you were taking only, let's say 8 breaths per minute, plus those were shallow breaths.

Now, your HR jumped to 70-80-100 while resting, plus you will breathe 12-15 times per minute (deeper breaths). Your heart is weak and deconditioned and your lungs also (you were more or less using only 60-70% of your lungs and they became weak. Your lungs were working slowly almost as if you were bedridden).

For months, I had a pain in a lung's area after walking. For example, after I have quit BBs, I tried to walk for 5 minutes: in a first few days my lungs would hurt for hours after walking (I was insanely scared). After a few days, it would get better, but then when I leveled up my walking to 10 minutes, and then the same, lungs would hurt for a few days after walking. The same would repeat each time when I would walk for longer and longer.

Remember, when on BBs, our heart pumps less blood and oxygen and our body really does get less oxygen and all of our muscles get weaker and weaker.

But imo, the biggest problem/damage is too high HR. That is more or less the only thing which can really kill you.

Try to walk and do some things, 1 by 1, it will get better.

When you feel bad, just remember how you felt 1, 2, 4, 10 weeks ago (when you'll come to a 10th week). Also, try to write a diary, like: day 20, I had too high HR for 5 hours, I haven't been able to walk. Day 21, I was able to walk for 8 minutes etc.

Then, when you'll come to a day 30, 40, 60, when you'll have a bad day, you will be able to look back and say: omg, look how bad I felt on a day 20... I have improved a lot since then.

That gave me a strength to continue, since you can easily fall down into a depression during a withdrawal because it can last for 6+ Months easily and on majority of days you feel as these withdrawal problems will never go away and that you will never feel normal again, your family don't believe how bad you feel, and 90% of doctors will say: it should have been gone by now and you are either crazy or you have some heart problems (too high HR and anxiety).

So, if you don't think that you are crazy and if your heart was always fine, try to live and improve day by day.

I have been through that hell 2 times.

Once again, people say that Magnesium helps in reducing HR, so I was taking some Magnesium during a withdrawal. Also, drink a lot of water, vitamins, plus a lot people take some tiny doses of Valium or something, beacuse anxiety from a withdrawal can get you in a vicious cycle.

You want to go out and walk to improve your heart, but anxiety doesn't allow you to do so, plus anxiety drives your HR up.

So, anxiety can slow down your battle with deconditioned heart/heartrate. And you basically need to work/walk/stand up/do some housework, littly by litte. Also, just try to stand up and try to stay in a stand up position for 15 minutes, then 30 minutes in upcoming weeks, then 45, 60 minutes etc.

Our hearts are so weak now from BBs that even standing and doing nothing for 30 minutes will exhaust your heart a lot. (And I have read some stuides which show that even a simple standing still is slowly strengthening hearts in people who are deconditioned). So, if you can't walk for longer than 5-10-xx minutes, do a double training: walk 5 minutes each day, and try to stand for 20 minutes. Later, when you'll improve, walk for 10 minutes and stand for 30 minutes. Then walk for 15 minutes and stand for 45 minutes etc. If you'll feel good, try to walk 2 times for 10 minutes per day, then 2 times for 15 minutes (and do some standing also etc). Also, when you'll be better, add some light stretching, because each activity will improve different set of muscles and you will be improving little by little in 10s of different ways.

Whatever you do, remember that your heart is extremely weak (as a muscle) because of BBs, and it will take a lot of time to come to a somewhat normal form.

You have to fight with 3 problems currently:

1. you have too much adrenaline because of BBs, and this is why your HR is too high. Adrenaline will go down day by day, it will be better after 30-60 days

2. your heart as a muscle is very weak, and you'll need months and months to return into a better shape

3. anxiety will slower down your progress

So, you have to wait until your body will readjust to adrenaline (step 1) and then a step 2 is your job. Step 3 can be slightly neutralized with Valium (plus, step 3 will be gone over time, but it will last for 3-12 Months in majority of people).

Good luck, and ask if you'll need more help or support

Thanks again Bob, all very reassuring. Just taking each day at a time, but you are right, looking back just 2-3 weeks I can see an improvement to how I was.

Cheers,

Mike.