Is it even worth trying Propranlol now?
Posted , 10 users are following.
Hi all, Fellow Dizzy here. I got vertigo a few years ago, which resolved to the point of being able to work again in 4 months - I just gradually upped my activity and I felt pretty normal after 9 months (except for occasional weird tinnitus and ear pressure changes I never had before).
So in October 2014, woah massive vertigo spins again, These lasted a week and since then I have been stuck with constant imbalance, exhaustion, dropping things etc.
In around Jan 2015, my coordintaion was so bad, slurred speech etc, I got an MRI of the cerrbellum, which was clear.
So far, no-one seems to really know what's wrong. One neurologist suggested maybe MAV and put me on Amytriptiline (Elevil) which made me twice as dizzy and sick. It was like 3 weeks of hell. So I had to come off it. Now, they're suggesting I try Propranolol.
Thing is, it's all guesswork. No one has diagnosed me with anything (or no two people say the same thing). I've only had a Calorics test and the hospital that was done at is so poor, they never even gave me the results.
So currently I have 24/7 imbalance - it never goes, though it's worse if I need to concentrate, and walking outside often makes me feel I might keel over. Only occasional 'vertigo spins' now. I wake up every morning with my head feeling like a cannonball and if I do too much (like answering a few emails or trying to read or think lol) then by evening I have crushing headaches.
I can not work. My brain is so screwed I can take 2 hours to write an email sometimes (I used to write for a living). I still stumble with speech. I'm exhuasted all the time, I've tried Cawthorne Cooksey and my other half tries to take me for a walk every couple of days, as far as I can manage (sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 20, always holding onto his arm).
I feel like I'm trying all I can but the hospitals are so slow and I feel very much alone. I've been sick nearly 10 months this time and been given only 3 appointments (and paid for a private MRI myself).
Is there even any point in trying Propranolol (which I'm told might not even work for 3 months if at all, and if I even did have MAV, which we stil don't know if I have!).
After my last ENT appointment, I asked if they'd refer me to a neuro-otologist as they seem to be much better at understanding balance problems and the ENT consultant said "but you don't need to see a neurologist. Your MRI was ok." They've sent me instead an appointment to see someone in audio-vestibular medicine. In November. Sigh.
I'm so sorry for the rant, but I'm at the end of my tether, and I'm generally a patient, sunny person. But it's getting ridiculous now and I don't know where to turn to.
Many thanks for listening and any advice. (Ps I'm 35, Female)
1 like, 50 replies
diane86032 mudskippa
Posted
It transpired I was sent for tests and possible treatment for BPPV. This is after I had specifically stated in the consultation that I knew it wasn't this condition as the sense of spinning I have is constant - it is not dependant on any particular head postion. I am sure I have had viral neuritis in January as I have had it previously and recognise the symptoms.
What I did find out from talking to the hospital technicians is that another nearby hospital (but outside my health authority) is a centre of excellence for balance problems. It has a suite of modern equiptment and balance physios.
Please remember that the NHS can be very basic indeed - I would bet that most GPs and many ENT specialist cannot even name one neuro-otologist.
I would suggest you try to acertain if there is any centre of excellence for balance near you and specifically request a referal. It sounds like your November appointment might be helpful but if it is a one man outfit in a small hospital that consultant might not have the back up of testing equiptment and reabilitation staff.
I would be very reluctant to take any medication without a diagnosis. It could be both helpful (and a little cunning) to enquire of your GP precisely how Propanolol would work, and if it is licened for your specific (undiagnosed) condition. If you do not get a clear answer I would not take it - unless you do not object to the human guinepig approach of lets just take it and see what happens.
My own theory is there has been a particular viral strain this winter that has effected balance in some people. I have spoken to at 3 people who have had, or know someone, who has had bad vertigo for the first time in their lives this winter. As I have had it before (in 1998) and it left me with some residual balance issues and ocassional flair-ups, this time I think I am taking longer to recover. Viral geographical outbreaks have been reported occassionally in the medical scientific literature for decades. I have also noted some studies where it has been observed that the affects can last in some people for months or even years, some feel neaqrly fully recovered but testing seems to show long lasting deficits. I think it makes sense that if an area of the body is damaged once, the 2nd attack might take longer to recover from, or at least learn to compensate for the damage.
I think you can pick up from the medical literature that there is an assumption that you get over it in a couple of weeks (some GPs also assume the same). After that then questions about mental issues (caused by anxiety etc). However, more detailed testing longterm testing by specialist teams has shown long term effects.
It could be that Amytriptiline (an antidepressant) was prescribed for a suspected mental health issue. It is also prescribed, at lower doses for prifiral nerve damage (as a pain killer). I have taken it for the latter (for an unrelated issue to balance) and I could not even function on it. I was in total daze. I think this is very unhelpful if you balance is already out of kilter. So, as I say, you do not have to put up with been treated as guinepig from medical guesswork.
All respect to those professionals that fully admit they do not have any answers but are willing to try something - but lets not pretend that this is scientific.
One day at a time hey!
P.S. My concentration also quite impaired and initally couldn't string a sentence together. See my previous thread for other details as there are a number of similarities.
chris1303 diane86032
Posted
I did ask the other day "could I have had a stroke?". I didnt get any further really, she asked why did I think I'd had a stroke, I mentioned well, brainstem controls balance and vertigo is a symptom both initially and longer term. We didn't progress beyond that. I guess I'm pushing for further investigations to eliminate the nasties but I'm not doing to well on that front.
But I would concur with your idea about a particualrly nasty bug this winter...
mudskippa diane86032
Posted
mudskippa chris1303
Posted
Then I got some horrid virus just after that which completely set me back to square 1 again. It was all the usual cough/cold/ear blocky stuff for a week or so, but left me feeling utterly exhausted and nauseous for weeks after. I thought it would be a temporary setback, but it wasn't.
I'm down in London but I knew a few people who had something similar around the same time in various areas.
mudskippa diane86032
Posted
diane86032 chris1303
Posted
It has also crossed my mind that I might have had a stroke (This did actually happen to my mum. Eventually her balance and gait deteriorated such she needed a wheel chair, after many many falls). But I just remind myself that ever thing else seems to be working fine (no numness in face, arms and legs working equally etc).
I think we generally have difficulty comprehending how much effect a virus can have - so assume it must a catastrophic event. I also think GPs will not say too much about viruses as very little is known. Your guess is as good as his. This time I didn't even go to the doctors for a few weeks as the NHS cannot even offer any treatment for common viral illnesses.
From what I have read it seems that whilst it is known this vertigo does occur alongside common viral outbreaks they have still not managed to isolate any specific virus in actual patients. So perhaps it's hardly suprising they haven't got much to offer in terms of the fallout, sadly, your short straw.
I am trying to keep positive and believe that if I eat well and rest well I will give myself the best chance of recovery. I have certainly had no trouble falling asleep - can't even get to the end of eastenders! This is a least some type of blessing as there is nothing worse than laying in the dark with the room rotating.
I would ignore any suggestions of anxiety as a cause, especially as you can document flu preceeding it. I think this it is a cover-up and coverall diagnosis for medical ignorance. If you didn't feel depressed before you certainly will after that diagnosis - it is no more helful than saying you are the cause of your own misfortune. And this makes me really angry. It is not very nice feeling being disorientated and feeling out of control - so some empathy wouldn't go a miss with some acknowlegement that they don't have much to offer. Hope you all feel better soon.
laurence76206 mudskippa
Posted
I have pretty much what you have described, inlcuding the concetration issues which makes it very difficult to socilaize (not that is much of an option at presnt) and occasional speech issues (this normally happens if I have tried to do too much or been in the company of others for too long). The dizziness, which is like being on board a boat, is 24/7 but does vary in severity from day to day. I am not sure how this started although I did have an ulcer on the cornea (like a cold sore on the lip) in November 2014 and then the massive vertigo attack happened December 2014.
Although I am on a company health insurance scheme I am 6 months into the illness, without any improvement (in fact the condition worsened from around April 2015) and still going for tests (I hyave had 2 x MRI and an MRA scan also). I have to attend the London Road clinic in Leicetser today (a centre of excellence for this type of illbness) for over 2 hours of balance tests and will be seeing a top Otologist later on. I am really hoping that they will be able to give some positive news and prescribe a course of action that will work!.
Like many others on the forum I have been told that anxiety is playing a large part in my recovery but I have been diagnosed with acute VN. At the start I carried out the Cawthorne Cooksey excersises but was not told how long to keep this up, as I could feel no improvement I stopped.
I was able to work for the first month but soon had to stop and have now been off for 5 months. My company are now getting fidgety about this as i can't predict when I am likely to get better.
I certainly sympathise with all thopse on the forum going through this, in this day and age you would think that sosmoeone would have come up with a drug that could successfully resolve this type of issue.
Anyway, I do hope you start to feel some inmprovment, although they say that time is the great healer.
Best wishes
Laurence
kate47167 laurence76206
Posted
laurence76206 kate47167
Posted
Yes, I have already seen the consultant he was excellent. He immediately diagonosed that I hade acute VN and organised the tests for today followed by an appointment with him and the Physio. I wished I could have seen him earlier as I may have now been on te road to recovery. Although you say you have been a 'dizzy' for 6 years, has he helped you in any way?
Best wishes.
Laurence
kate47167 laurence76206
Posted
I have VN and BPPV i saw him when my daughter was 6 weeks old took 8 mths of epleys to move BPPV I started VRT and maybe 1 year after I was much better however I had a baby my dad had died and my marriage was in hell so any kind of stres like that makes it so much worse. I started Back driving slowly and worked part time years 2 - 6 were amazing I was 80% dizzy free just by night etc then sadly this year I am having my first relapse with VN and BPPV is hell I feel like I am at the start again I have no fight to go through it again I had a misscsrriage and that brought on major anxiety I have had depression and now have to close my business and we moving to so compensation will be a long road again and need rid of the BPPV
I saw the consultant 6 weeks ago who as always was very positive the prob I have is at the moment it's a 7 hr return journey to see him not one I want to do after an epley so I am trying to hold out till we move in 5 weeks will only be 4 hr journey. I am thinking about having some balance tests again and I will start vrt again but I know whilst all the other stuff is going it makes it even worse.
How r u feeling after the tests ?
Are u local to Leicester ?
mudskippa kate47167
Posted
mudskippa laurence76206
Posted
I'm self-employed (but not working right now as it's impossible to do my job properly feeling like this), so it's hit my bank balance hard - but at this point, I feel I'll never get back to doing what I love unless I get proper help, which unfortunately the NHS has not provided me with.
I really hope your appointment goes well. Let us know!
anne05147 laurence76206
Posted
kate47167 mudskippa
Posted
kate47167 mudskippa
Posted
But yes I have done it again and my consultant was saying 2nd time the brain remembers quicker then the first time as at that stage it's all new.
Yesterday I had to do a 2 hr journey and today I have lots of swaying 😞😞
I have little support from friends my partner is great however he never seen me like this so is hard for him and a 6 yr old to.
When it all happened i was like " no way am I going to let this beat me " etc but as it stands I feel like its beating me 😞
mudskippa kate47167
Posted
anne05147 kate47167
Posted
kate47167 anne05147
Posted
Do u have epleys ?
anne05147 kate47167
Posted