Is there any hope with afib?

I've also read the posts and medical articles but disagree with your conclusions. Regular moderate exercise is not a "main trigger" but rather preventative of afib and therefore recommended. What may be associated with afib is aggressive endurance training such as marathon running. A good book on this by Dr. John Mandrola called "The Haywire Heart".

As to age and afib, it does not get "serious" as you get older and in fact longevity figures are identical when afibbers are compared to non-afibbers. Maybe you're talking about more frequency? Well, I'm over 70 and have only had five episodes in the last 35 or so years. And the good news for "li" is that because he's so young, treatments and cures not available to myself, will in most probability be available to him in the near future.

Jim

Interesting stuff. Similar in age to JimJames, and have only really had two significant episodes of AF, both after considerable exertion, one cycling April 2016, one hiking November 2016, so I suppose you could argue that exercise triggered my AF, although the cycling incidence was also preceded by a whopping great piece of Victoria sponge and a large cup of black coffee (I'm a social cyclist, and like most others are, or were, big into cake and coffee), followed by a steep ascent.

Since the stroke I have exercised, both cycling and walking, and have had no further episodes of AF. Unpleasant as AF is, I'd rather live with it, than without exercise. This year's plan includes cycling the Ride London (100 miles), and a walking holiday in Patagonia.

I'm on blood thinners for the foreseeable, so in my eyes the risk is perfectly acceptable; just have to make sure I don't fall off the bike too often.

Sherpa Al

I wouldn't give up the exercise but maybe forgo the coffee and sponge cake -- sugar and caffeine could have done the trick!  In fact,  think too much caffeine may have done me in last time. I don't plan on having any coffee for at least six months and then I'll see. Keeping well hydrated  on those rides (and otherwise) is also preventative of afib and probably some moderate electrolyte replacemet as well.

Jim

Allan

Should we avoid coffee, sugar, alcohol, stress and exercise? Hell no, but we have to be cognizant of the replacement requirements.  Potassium and magnesium are primarily secreted in the pee, but sweat can be included as well as simple respiration. In all cases, drink lots of water.

Its rarely mentioned but the Mediterranean  diet is rich in potassium and magnesium.  Also rarely mentioned is the fact that the total of potassium required each day equals the combined total of calcium, magnesium and sodium.  

Here in the USA, 90%+ are very deficient in magnesium and potassium.

Food intolerances can kick off afib episodes if there is a pre-existing deficiency in magnesium and potassium. The food intolerance does that but causing bloating when lying down and then putting pressure on the vagus nerve. 

Having afib (PAF) too often without taking the correct dietary steps to replenish the electrolyte imbalances can result in structural damage to the heart muscle cells, and a more permanent afib can set in regardless.

Its all pretty simple and eventually medical practitioners will pick up on it. In  the meantime they give out medicine which does not solve the problem, only calms the symptoms, sometimes.

I am a 40+ years biomedical scientist, and my afib has been ancient history once I figure out for myself what was gong on.

Frank 

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Thanks Frank, a good synopsis I think.

I do eat a good diet, plenty of fruit, vegetables, nuts, fish at least twice a week, maybe don't drink enough, but hoping that I get sufficient potassium, etc. I also take a supplement called Nutrimonium to help ensure sufficient good bacteria in the stomach, and minimise bloating, belching etc. This also contains a shed load of minerals as well, including K/Mg etc.

I take thinners following the stroke, but have never taken any rhythm control medication, and a rare bisoprolol when things have speeded up occasionally.

Allan

Why not?  

You know what you've been doing to get into this mess, now reverse it by replenishing. Every alcoholic drink should be accompanied by an equal volume of water, for example.

You do seem like a high stress guy, so how you'll handle that is totally up to you.

Frank

A great way to start with a simple color code: if its green, its super healthy, loaded with potassium and magnesium; e.g., spinach, broccoli, lettuce, kale, various fruits, especially the skins.  If its white, its a toxin and should be avoided; e.g., bread, pasta, cream, sugar, potatoes (high in potassium but also high in sugar).

BTW, sugar is a true toxin, and that goes way beyond afib. Think Advanced Glycation End Products  (AGEs) - all from sugar.

Frank

Frank,

Some good thoughts but "Its all pretty simple" and diet and nutrition do not belong in the same sentence   Did you ever listen to fierce the Barry Sears (zone diet) vs Dean Ornish (Ornish reversal diet) radio debate? Put 12 diet advocates in a room and you better run before the fireworks go off!

Curious what you think of the FODMAP diet that a number of members here swear by. That diet also only allows unripe bananas for reasons you mentioned in another post.

For 30 years I had the same trigger. Either drinking ice cold drinks too fast or in one instance eating soft ice cream too fast. Life was simple. Just had to remember not to chug cold drinks. Forgot a few times so had three such episodes in 30 years. Each time I was electro cardioverted but the rest of the time no drugs, just forgot about it.

Until a few months ago. For the first time I went into afib without the cold drink/cold ice cream trigger. Electro cardioverison didn't work this time for some reason but fortunately I naturally cardioverted the next day. Been in normal sinus rhythm since with no drugs. Daily ectopic beats that may or may not have been there before but safe to say I'm more aware of them now because of the afib.

So now things aren't so simple. I no longer know the trigger. I mention all this because you seem well versed in diet. At the time I was on the Esselyn diet which is vegan, very low fat and for me very low sodium. I had been on it before (and then off) without any rhythm issues, but it could have been a factor this time. I also had double my usual caffeine intake that day, another possibility. Or, perhaps, the combination of the Vegan diet and the caffeine through things out of whack? To add to the puzzzle , I also cooked that afternoon with some Indian Marsala spices I hadn't used before. So there's that. Plus had been constipated that week so there was some substantial straining at the toilet possibly that morning, not 100% sure.

Needless to say, I'm off the Vegan diet and upped my protein and healthy fats. Stopped coffee completely (for now) I don't plan on eating an Indian meal for quite some time! (I was also wearing blue socks that day, so maybe....

I understand that with multiple factors, it's impossible to point to one thing (or even a combo) as the trigger with any real certitude. That said, I'd be interested on your take about the the dietary factors. As to the blue socks, I'll consult with my girlfriend on that

Jim

Just add that after my afib episode I started adding salt to my diet. Still within all guidelines, I'm just not on a super low sodium diet.  Ironically, my bp went down which is the opposite of what usually happens when I add sodium, but maybe I found the sweet spot. Also no coffee may have helped. I also started magnesium supplements which in addition to being good for the heart, as you've mentioned, also help with regularity. Currently taking 400mg Magnesium Citrate a day plus at least two bananas. Any other supplements you might recommend?

Thanks for any input.

Jim

Jim

those blue socks could be a trigger; they are so normal that could be depressing.  Maybe you should wear some ridiculous looking Indian socks when you eat Indian food, and that will have you and everyone else around laughing and it'll take care of the stress issue.

400 mg magnesium citrate per day is perfect, but do 200 in the morning then 200 before bed.  Magnesium is a vasodilator and relaxes muscles, so that is why it is a help for constipation and blood pressure. Potassium also is a vasodilator.

We all can eat all the sodium we want provided we have sufficient potassium and magnesium. Low sodium only helps for people low on potassium and magnesium.  High sodium, for people low on potassium and magnesium, will cause all kinds of blood pressure issues because it tries to take the place of potassium and magnesium, and inside a cell, that is no good.

I can't  do dairy because I am a geezer and I now have lactose intolerance.  However, milk, whole milk, not that low fat milk crap, is loaded with potassium.

Speaking of fat, any fat is great.  It comes in the same chemical category as gasoline, and that is most useful for energy. Stay away from sugar, as I have said before..

BTW, most doctors completely screw up the method for measuring magnesium and potassium. So, they'll often tell patients that they are fine, but in reality they are using an antiquated cheap lousy assay to measure them.

Frank

Frank,

Had a suspicion the blue socks might be the trigger, but coming from a biochemical scientist like yourself I will donate them to charity. I think my electrolytes were OK on my last bloodwork, but I'll have to check if that was before or after I started taking the magnesium. Are you saying the standard electrolyte panel leaves something to be desired? What would you suggest? 

Still trying to do the "good" fats for cardiac reasons other than afib, so whole milk is out. Where else can I get potassium other than bananas? What about supplements?

Thanks for the advice.

Jim