Jointace, Devils Claw, Osteocare or glucosamine with chondroitin and MSM any good?

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I was diagnosed with severe OA three weeks ago.. Currently taking Naproxen and codeine. I really don’t like all this prescription stuff and prefer natural therapy, because I want something sustainable. I have started a yoga beginners course and am looking to join a local support group. At the moment I wake up every morning and I have screaming pain in my feet, especially the right one. My GP is useless, says it is incurable.. cannot believe it.. I realise this a long haul issue, but surely there is something to help me. Can anyone recommend some natural supplements? .. is any of the high street stuff any good? 

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  • Posted

    Been down the glucosamine route for my OA as recomended by my consultant but no help there. I have it really bad in my fingers and as you say the pain at times is awful. I have found a cure and I am now pain free, but they only do it when it gets really bad and its surgery, in my case, finger joint replacement.

    Take a step back and look at what happens with OA. In my case the cartilage is eventually worn away so think about it, its bone rubbing on bone so it will hurt. You may find a natural pain relief but generally you need something stronger. I found that Ibuprofen gel would give some relief.

    Unfortunately your GP is right and is not useless, OA at the moment is not reversible.

    In my case I am lucky that after years of problem, it got bad enough for surgery from which I am recovering now and its gone really well and movement is back. For you though there may not be any solution.

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  • Posted

    Whow, wknight. Yu must have been through a lot of pain and I am happy for you that you are on the mend. 

    Paul - sorry to hear you have got OA. You are not alone! Personally, I am all over natural cures and have been taking green lipped mussel, amitamin arthro360 and extra 2,000mg of omega-3 for about 2 years. Yes, it is 7 or 8 tablets, but better than 15 LOL and seems to be working for my joints and bones. The main nutrients you need to make sure you take together are MSM, Glucosamine, Chondroitin and omega-3. Most of it is included in amitamin arthro360, natural chondroitin comes from the green lipped mussel. I then take extra omega-3s (the more the merrier), which both help reduce the inflammation. I found this combination on an OA forum in the US. To be honest I don’t understand the science behind all the stuff I am taking, but it is natural and  working :-) Yes, it may or it may not work for you, because everyone is different, but there is only way to find out. I used to have terrible arthritis in my hip and it is a lot better... sometimes I still take paracetamol, but as long as I walk regularly I am fine 90% of the time. My GP wanted to give me Naproxen + Omeprazole, but I decided to go the natural route and nothing else. I researched this cocktail myself and feel fine! The pain is a lot better, I don’t have any side-effects and am not putting useless drugs into my body.. Good luck Paul!

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  • Posted

    Hi Paul

    try anything mentioned in responses to your post as it may work for you

    I have had OA for over 30 years now and I take natural remedies use uni inflammatory cremes and take pain killers when I need them. Above all you need to maintain gentle exercise.

    As for joint replacements they do provide relief but they do not last for ever so once you go that route sooner or later you will need more surgery.

    Sadly your GP is right OA is not curable so far but it can be managed and it has periods when it does get better.

    I do a lot of yoga, Pilates and meditation as I know that I can manage the pain by controlling my thoughts

    it takes quite a bit of training and perseverance but it is totally possible to live with the same pain but notice it much less.

    I have had OA from really age due to orthopedic surgeries in childhood so my choice was to learn to live with it or be miserable for ever.

    Keep reading and keep trying different things

    so you can work out the best regime

    all the best

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  • Posted

    Sorry Paul none of these have shown any efficacy in proper controlled trials. I was in your state 20years ago however I started my research 15 years ago and have been OA free for 15 years. However it is not a cure its a trreatment. I have to take itall the time or after 6-8 weeks the OA comes back. Because it cannot be patented no drug company will finance the trial. No doctor will precribe it without approval. So you all suffer as a scientist I cant prescribe it for you but I would tell your doctor. I would need to know your age and 1 Did any of your parents/grandparents die of premature heart attack(Dont include smokers). 2 Did any of your female relatives mother oir sisters have breat cancer. I started treatment at 61 and I am now 76
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    • Posted

      Hi Alan

      What you wrote sounds very interesting but a little misterious 

      what is it you take?

      It sounds a little strange that you are taking something that has not gone through trials yet is available on the market.

      And finally,  if you do not mind sharing,  which country you live in?

      My GP is very progressive and will prescribe if there is scientific support for the medication and risks are reasonable.  All medications have side effects but some are more dangerous than others

      Many thanks Alan

      Mishe

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    • Posted

      Before I retired I was a researcher in medical sciences and have a doctorate in bichemistry. So I researched my OA and resolved it. My treatment is available on the market for a totally different disease. I am happy to pass all my notes on to your Doc but cannot recommend or prescribe for anyone else. I am in the UK
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    • Posted

      Very interesting discussion here. If I may interject wink

      First of all, I am sorry to hear that you are in so much pain, Paul! 

      I am not going to give you any advice here. I will suggest a potential route for you going forward, but I want you to discuss this with your GP/doctor.

      Unfortunately, he/she isn’t wrong. OA is a degenerative disease, which cannot simply be reversed. 

      However, clinical trials have shown that (1) its progression can be slowed and (2) its symptoms can be reduced.

      This can be achieved with either pharmaceutical drugs, micro nutrients (also called nutraceuticals, which we get from food such as glucosamine, omega-3s etc, but often not in sufficient dosages) OR a combination of both.

      Glucosamine has been shown effective in treating OA in many clinical studies. This article cites over 80 studies and concludes that "we should consider the use of glucosamine as a combination therapy with other drugs or other nutraceuticals, such as omega-3 fatty acid or manganese ascorbate.” Julie53120 below can testify to that. 

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3392795/

      alan46653’s statement is therefore not incorrect.

      Paul95480, I therefore suggest you consider a combination supplement therapy. This should include at least the micro nutrients glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM and omega-3 fatty acids. There are several products on the market, which combine many of these nutraceuticals such as aminoexpert arthropro, vitaboitics Jointace or amitamin arthro360, which pats121 mentions above. 

      Now Paul, please discuss with your GP/doc how you can best combine the micro nutrient supplements with your NSAID & painkiller to try and wean you off both of them.

      I argue this is a good strategy, because this article (citing 30 studies) concludes that “long-term treatment of glucosamine sulfate may reduce the dependence of NSAID usage and delay the disease progression. Thereby, we can reduce the NSAIDs side effects and improve the patient's quality of life."

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3346693. ;

      Finally, from a scientific perspective, do not disregard the placebo effect. Knowing that you are taking something that you believe in is likely to have an effect on the outcome, whether clinically proven or not.  

      I hope all of this makes sense. Do keep us updated if you decide to go down this path. Good luck!

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    • Posted

      Dear Rose, thank you so much for your post. I bought arthro360 from amitamin because it is the only one, which has all those nutrients you mention. It has been 2 months and I am feeling a lot better.. less pain.. amazing actually. My GP is happy for me to come off codeine and reduce Naproxen to 500mg from June if it goes well. I think the yoga is helping too.. I feel younger and more flexible than I have in years! 
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  • Posted

    Hi Paul

    i took glucosamine and chondritine years ago, but didn't realise they were actually helping because within a year of stopping my hand joints started to become very misshapen- so did it help or would my hands have got worse even if I had stayed on glucosamine again now, wish I had not stopped. I am on naproxen also which numbs the pain a little. I probably haven't helped!!!!!!

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  • Posted

    Hi Paul - sorry hon but if you do have OA, it's definitely not 'curable' as it's a degeneration of the cartilage and in present medical terms, that isn't replaceable yet.  Certain joints can be replaced in their entirety but not yet the cartilage within them.  I have it in one ankle, there is no cartilage left as a result of an accident, and replacing ankle joints is in its infancy presently, so I'm stuck with that.  It has spread to both thumb joints - they are the killer painful bits - which again are not replaceable.  In terms of natural remedies, there are millions and they go from the sublime to the ridiculous.  A combination of both pharmaceuticals and plant based methods is what I've found works best.  Naproxen is the only anti inflamm I've found that actually does take down the inflammation enough to make a difference to pain levels but I try not to take it too much as it wrecks my stomach, even with a stomach protector like omeprazole etc.  I take it at night then I hopefully have less inflammation to wake up to.  Ginger is my big recommendation above all else.  It's known to have natural anti inflammatory properties and it can be used in many different ways.  Mince the fresh ginger root and steep in boiling water with a little added lemon juice and drink like a tea.  Mince the fresh root and mix with body oil or lotion and rub into the affected joints - good for the pain, the inflammation and the moisture of the skin.  You can buy ginger tea bags in good quality whole foods stores if you dont like the taste of the fresh stuff.  Don't use stem ginger, it needs to be from the root.  The active ingredient in turmeric which is curcumin, is also a good pain reliever - dont bother with the spice, buy capsules containing a high concentration of curcumin (there's only about a 5% concentration in turmeric the spice).  Have a look online at ayurvedic medicine - I'm not a hindu nor a spirtualist but their logic is good and it's all about natural remedies, which even if they dont work, won't kill you smile.  Lastly, easier said than done, but keep stress levels to a minium.  Stress causes the adrenal gland to overwork producing too much cortisol which has the opposite effect to endorphins and reduces your ability to cope with pain.  Meditation, yoga, chi gung, tai chi, all of those will calm the mind and help it to overcome stress much better and that will give you better pain control.  Hope this helps.  smile
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    • Posted

      Hi Loxie

      the wisest words so far

      thank you

      the fresh ginger tea is something I used to drink but forgot about 

      will now go back to it thanks to you

      THANK YOU LOXIE

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    • Posted

      You are correct about the degeneration of bone and cartilage however this generation can be reversed by the stimulation of the genes in the osteocytes that are responsible for the formation of bone and cartilage. It has been done severl times but how long it will take to get it into the NHS is anyones guess .
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  • Posted

    Message for Loxie Mechanical damage of the ankle is nothing to do with OA. I had the same, no cartilage in the joint is crippling. I had  total ankle replacement in March 2010 it has been brilliant. Go for it I had mine done at Wrightington. The OA in the hands is a completely different matter see my messages to Thelma and Paul
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    • Posted

      Dear Alan

      I have been talking to my amazing and a world class Orthopeadic surgeon about ankle replacement for several years now and he continually asks me to wait as he explains that the procedure is not refined enough and the replacement's life is short as compared to lets say knee replacements.  You are likely to have 5-7 years before you need a new ankle.  For me it is much too short gain for the kind of intervention it is.

      Mechanical damage has everything to do with OA as OA causes changes and those changes effect in damage.  Nothing in our bodies is in a vacuum,  it is all connected and one thing causes problems with the next and the chain reaction continues.  

       

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    • Posted

      forgot to reply to this previously.  of course my ankle damage is the cause of my OA - how silly to disagree - loss or inflammation of cartilage is the direct cause of OA. Thank you Mishe for your comments.  I have been following research about ankle replacement for several years - my consultant advised me that they can fuse the ankle - ie remove the dorsa flex - but not replace it yet.  There is research on a ball socket mechanism in sweden presently but it requires severing the foot at the ankle and til now has a low percentage success rate - not a risk I feel worth taking.   Work to create artificial cartilage in laboratory experiments is in its infancy and at my age probably won't be widely available before i depart this mortal coil.  I'll stick with coping for now
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