Living with PMR

Tina, 

Sent you a PM. J

I have learned so much from you Thanks.

re couch potato!  Wouldn't you, just sometimes, love to be one?  I get up some mornings, especially as it is now getting cold and miserable, and think "I'll stay on this couch and not move for four or five days"!! Lovely!

That's scary..... I didn't know this. Thanks for the insight.

You wrote "I had lost a lot of weight in my 14 or so undiagnosed months, and I have not gained any of the lost weight back in the past 5 treated months.".

This can and does happen with PMR and if you were still losing weight the medics would be very worried and doing something about it.

Partly through strength of will - I was so happy to be thin!  Although in retrospect it has not turned out to be a good thing (bones getting thin too, apparently).  The weight loss started with my broken leg when I got out of the habit of idle snacking, because it was too difficult to get to the food!  I do NOT recommend this as a weight loss strategy!  But I've always known I would be a thin old lady as with every major life crisis I would lose a lot of weight, and never regain all the way back to the previous level.  I haven't lost any more.  That critical slide into vanishing was halted by prednisone.  But having to cut way back on simple carbs has certainly not helped me put back any weight.

Why do you have to cut back on simple carbs.   I am interested not being critical.

That other pred "effect" of diabetes - having one major effect (osteoporosis) is enough, don't want to risk another.  But I did just eat the most delicious gigantic peanut butter ball in dark chocolate.

It's the simple carbs that are the cause of blood sugar spikes because they are absorbed very quickly - the same as drinking "smoothies" or fruit juices rather than eating whole fruit and veg where the sugar enters the blood stream much more slowly. The spike stimulates the production of a lot of insulin which makes the blood sugar fall very quickly and it tends to overshoot. Low blood sugar makes you crave more sweet stuff to replenish the sugar - and so the vicious circle goes on. Too much insulin free in the body makes cells resistant to its effect so eventually you develop Type 2 diabetes. And the excess sugar that triggered the insulin production was, in the meantime, stored as fat. Corticosteroids make that all worse - and you get those lovely fat stores around your middle ...

Thanks Eileen,  as I never eat smoothies, drink juices or sweet stuff  (tonic is mine for a soft drink, I am really not a sugar person at all, as I have never taken take sugar in tea, coffee.  I did not realise the difference between 'simple' and 'complex'.

 

That's why people in all walks of life are advised not to eat highly refined foods, never mind being on pred or being diabetic already.  I've been pretty good that way, but now I'm trying to eat more (non animal) protein instead for calories and energy, but as a bowl of cereal has been my regular comfort food since childhood it hasn't been easy.  Delicious as a handful of almonds or pumpkin seeds may be, it's just not the same.  However, for those who are trying to keep a lid on the weight gain I do recommend big salads, made with kale or broccoli as well as the usual suspects and dressed with a healthy oil, etc.  Salads are filling because they take time to chomp your way through and it gives the hunger centre time to register that you've just had a meal.  But, I it's not the same as the nice bowl of carbs!

You are just going to love this:

Processed meats as big a cancer threat as cigarettes, health experts to sayGlobal health experts are to warn that bacon, ham and sausages are as big a cancer threat as cigarettes, it has been reported.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) will publish a report on Monday on the dangers of eating processed meats.

It is expected to list processed meat as a cancer-causing substance, while fresh red meat is also expected to be regarded as bad for health, the Daily Mail said.

The classifications, by the WHO's International Agency for Research on Cancer, are believed to regard processed meat as "carcinogenic to humans", the highest of five possible rankings, shared with alcohol, asbestos, arsenic and cigarettes.

Apart from arsenic and asbestos, I do drink and smoke and at 77 am into overdart time by 7 years.

 

Isn't it funny - I've always felt cereal was greatly overrated, other than a really good bowl of porridge with salt on them! And like lodger, if I want a soft drink in a bottle other than water I'd choose tonic - but always diet, I can't stand the taste of "full fat"! We found a load of cans of diet tonic with a LONG sell-by date this summer which means the odd G&T treat in store 

God only knows how everyone here lives to be in their 80s and 90s then - any younger and it was most likely an accident or possibly cancer. And what is a BIG part of their diet? Speck, wurst - ham, bacon, sausages. 

Remember this is from the People's Medical Journal - it'll be different if you read the report itself.

Here, too!  Adding ' Haxe,  Knödel, Schmalz, etc etc.". And my mother lived until she was nearly 80 and ate fish and chips twice a week, bacon sandwiches, beef broth, lamb, etc.  They just never worried about food, they just enjoyed it.  We worry about everything these days, eating correctly, exercising, etc.  Amd who dies younger?  The worriers!

I SUPPOSE we might live to be 150 if we didn't drink, smoke, eat fat, sugar, meat. exercised half the day - but OMG, what a boring existence!

And given how often a doctor dismisses your complaint of knee or back pain as "just wear and tear" what would all that exercise do to us?

As I say when I hear that some doctor told someone that pred will kill them - I'm a jam today girl. I might not live long enough to suffer the consequences so I'll take what i have thank you very much.

Good thing I've been vegetarian for about 20 years then, isn't it!

You have to remember that people in their 80s and 90s were not exposed to the level of agricultural chemicals and nuclear fallout that anyone born since WWII has been.  That does make a difference.  And now there are GMOs and who knows how that will affect the next generation?

They were after the war though!  People ate what they could get, they didn't think where it came from - and that was into the early fifties.  Now people think too much.  Life's too short, I want to enjoy the rest of it without worrying about everything I do, eat, etc.

Fair enough - but it didn't stop you developing PMR did it? Though I agree with you - Chernobyl probably has a LOT to answer for. As for GMOs - I like living where I do, they are quite anti them...

According to the Express today, bananas can cure both Ebola and HIV so we can rest secure that they probably cure PMR too! 

What did the DM (People's Med Journal) miss? Do you think Pauline McCafferty has been receiving iv banana?  If not - UCL missed a trick...

Where DO they get this drivel from?

The DM must get its act together. Sugar tax and cures for arthritis just don't have a patch on the wonders of bananas. How irresponsible can the Express get. 

I agree with you, Eileen. I'd rather enjoy life .....who knows what's round the corner? I think sugar is a big culprit in the obesity epidemic but I don't want to live a dull life eating all the right food and being a real 'party pooper'. Boring!!!!!!(🍷🍷🍫anti-inflammatory) I do not mean to minimise the weight gain. I have it and tend not to look in the mirror but had to today. Shock, horror! I was trying to choose 2 pairs of specs for the first time in 4 years of not much change in my prescription. It was difficult because my face shape has changed. I live in hope that with the reduction in steroids it will improve. Can't do much with the face😳😳 but the Cushing effect will go. On a happy note my younger granddaughter said, 'Granny you have hardly any wrinkles'! 😀😀 

Quite - I didn't have wrinkles until I lost weight - no wrinkles on a balloon! Do now - and they aren't laughter lines either...

Ah,well. When the time comes, I'll ask our painter for some of the filling he uses for the cracks in the wall!

 

Probably less dangerous than the stuff they inject for megabucks...

You know, I am content with the choices I've made concerning diet, not smoking, etc.  I really think it unfair for people to imply that I am sanctimonious and a party pooper.  I have tried in this forum to write suportive notes to people because I know how much I appreciate it when people support me.  That's why I'm here, after all.  We are all here sharing our experiences.  I have had a couple of years from hell which no doubt overwhelmed my system.  Who's to say that I might not have been far worse off if I lived more carelessly?  And never mind Chernobyl.  I grew up in the age of atmospheric nuclear testing, as did many people on this forum; that has got to have affected a good many of us.

I wasn't suggesting in any way that you were sanctimonious or anything else - but having been involved with these forums for a long time I have met my share of people trying to tell me that had I only not eaten/eaten this that and the next thing I wouldn't have developed/would recover from PMR. What I was saying/implying was that diet, even historical diet, probably DOESN'T make any difference at all. I smoked a couple a day for a couple of months when I first went to university but gave up when I met my now husband. He has never even tried a cigarette, my brother-in-law didn't smoke and was an exercise fanatic - it didn't stop either of them developing cancer. 

As for Chernobyl - you may not feel it applies, you in the Americas had your own more local nuclear testing, but for all of us in Europe the Chernobyl accident did have great effects with measurable levels of radiation on grass that we walked on and large numbers of animals removed from the food chain because of it. I, and some of my friends, have children who were born at that time who have severe immune system problems in the form of asthma and other problems. That was in addition to any atmospheric nuclear testing which possibly affected us all equally. 

Nobody, but NOBODY, thinks you are sanctimonious.  We all have a right to express our opinions.  I often fight against diets and excercise because I am basically lazy and I don't want to have to think of food all the time!  Others know they couldn't get by without thinking about how to improve their health.  I have had PMR for nearly four years and am just fed up with thinking and worrying about it all.  Apart from PMR I have OA, Gout and Migratory Arthritis.  I'd be worrying all the time if I thought about these things.  I'm 76 years old, time to relax and enjoy the rest of my life comfortably.

Like Eileen and Constance I was not implying anything I was merely expressing a personal opinion. I have had close relatives who lived a simple, healthy lifestyle who died at a young age and others who didn't and lived to 100years and over who were certainly overweight. Some, by no means  all, sadly, had dementia. So much contradictory information comes out regularly that we just have to decide for ourselves what we choose to follow or not and sometimes we have to balance up what suits our particular situation at the time.There is a lot of helpful information on this forum and it is up to the individual what they use or discard. I have followed a fairly healthy lifestyle and didn't smoke but there is no guarantee what I will or will not develop in the future.

I wasn't meaning to dismiss the effects from Chernobyl, but the tone in which that was brought up made me feel that my point about atmospheric testing had been missed.  Sorry.  This is why notes like this are not as good as face to face conversations where a misunderstanding can be cleared up seamlessly.  Also I really felt that I was being made fun of and the comment that trying to keep healthy hadn't stopped me from getting PMR (as though trying to keep healthy had stopped me from "enjoying life") was hurtful.  It doubtless was not intended that way, but I am in a fragile state right now.  

Smiley face not intended - it was supposed to be my closed brackets.

I actually just missed Chernobyl as we were visiting friends in Edinburgh just a week before the event.  They had a newborn daughter and were very worried about possible effects on her.  They had been walking in the rain, the baby in a carriage, unknowing that the rain was radioactive.

Nor was I saying that people should live the way I do.  But I thought this forum was supposed to allow us to say what our own experiences have been.  Maybe I am not complaining about continued pain etc because of certain life choices.  We are told to expect 70% pain reduction.  Well, I enjoy closer to 90 or 95% but because of lack of information I have now got thinning bones.  I truly believe the more information we have, the better our choices can be.  And I know we can't control everything.  But right now, at this point in time, in this place, I am terrified about my future and it would be nice if someone said well, you did the best you could, rather than implyng that I might as well not have bothered.

Anhaga, of course you did the best you could - and can - do.  Most people do, within their own parameters, but I would hold up my hand if challenged as my 'best' so often turns into my second, or third, or fourth best. And that is because I am a human being from the mould which has many flaws.

I'm quite sure no offence was intended.  I love 'speaking' to all on here and on other places but you are quite right, it will never be the same as face-to-face encounters and throw away remarks can take on a shade never intended.

I would also hazard a guess that all the forums I post on would have completely different images and expectations of me, and none of them true-to-life.  Not sure I  want to peer over the parapet!

Did you have a dexascan within a few weeks of starting pred? If you didn't then you cannot say with 100% certainty it was the pred that did it. While you ate a diet that is associated with less osteoporosis - low in animal protein - you also live in a place that will be associated with low vit D and vegetarian diets do tend to be even lower in vit D than non-vegetarian ones. 

However - since you are obviously now in a total headspin, I think you have to have a reassessment to get things into a different perspective; having osteoporosis does NOT mean you are going to crumble in a small heap tomorrow. Many people have low bone density and never break anything, other people with normal or good bone density break hips. 

Low bone density is only one of a range of risk factors - I've listed them several times in the past - and if you pay attention to them then your risk of a broken bone reduces a lot. Apart from any other consideration, not taking pred in PMR means immobility - one of the biggest risk factors.

I understand you are upset - but the comments have been made in the context of a conversation - on a forum over a period of a few days where you don't remember every single detail of what has gone before - about the latest chapter in the "you mustn't eat this or that or you'll die a dreadful death" which anyone has to accept have got to the ridiculous stage. Is there ANYTHING we can eat, drink without risking being told it will lead to a dreadful end in a few weeks/months/years? Leave out everything that is said to be bad for us and there would be precious little left - and death by starvation isn't appealing either. 

I think there are a lot of people frightened about the future and I certainly have a lot on my plate aside from PMR with little control over the outcome no matter what I do or not do at the moment. There are days when I could sit and weep and that's not from the pain which varies. However, I have chosen to make the best of it. Yesterday I discovered another side effect of the steroids which is not great but I try to maintain my sense of humour as not only would I go down but others who are dependent on me would probably come with me. I don't think that anyone was implying that you are not doing the best you can. We all have different circumstances and have to make our decisions accordingly. Some of us may not choose to follow the path we do but it is a balancing act dependent on many factors. I agree that face to face conversation can usually clear up any misunderstandings and we are also in different time zones for replies. l appreciate what you are saying about being in a fragile state at the moment. Do you have anyone in whom you can confide on a one to one and who can give you the support you need at present?

No

It sounds as though you are having to cope with a lot on your own. We all need support in what ever form suits us as individuals. Is your medical practice able to refer you to another discipline for support? I don't know what the set up is where you live. I suspect from what you say that there may not be a support group in your area or perhaps this may not be what you would seek out for your support. 

Thank you for your kind words. I would love a flesh and blood support group but have no idea how to flush fellow victims out of the woods.  You need at least two people to have a group.  The only other person I know with PMR is my daughter-in-law's father, who recently had a pacemaker installed, and is diabetic.  I make a point of talking to him one on one when the families get together, but he so far has shown no reciprocal interest in my situation.  I know he's been under stress also.  He's just retired, at the age of 70, because of his medical conditions but his immediate family appears to be more supportive of him than mine is of me.  Because we all know men need to be looked after, don't we?  But women carry on regardless.

I am from Canada. We have nothing here for me. Lots for FibroMyalgia but when I mention PMR people look at me with blank faces. Even my massage therapist and physio therapist and chiropodist never heard of PMR.

I am sorry to hear that your family are not very supportive. I wonder if your daughter-in-law's father is, like many men, unsure of what to say especially if he is already getting good support. Is he assuming you are getting family support? Would it be worth contacting the North East support group and asking their advice on how you could make inroads on setting up a support group / network in your area? When I was working I often set up support groups, where there was a need, but I had access to all the necessary people,venues and equipment plus the backing of management. If I could run it on a shoestring then there was always support. It doesn't need to be fancy and can be fairly informal but some ground rules and a bit of structure are necessary. If it it develops then you would need the relevant advice. I would suggest that you find neutral ground to meet initially. A coffee shop / cafe? I am sure you will know of somewhere suitable in your area. Please do not give out your personal details or allow anyone else to do so as you may find you are overburdened and it defeats the purpose. I think making contact with the North East or any other group for advice is best as it is too much to detail on this site. These are only little pointers that I am suggesting.

There have been some people from Canada on this board who were talking about setting up a group and getting a website.

Ten years ago the only thing for PMR/GCA was this forum. Five ladies "met" here - all in different parts of the UK - and started the work that has led to a charity and website for the NE and eventually to a National charity and a range of support groups across England. There was already something in Scotland. 

You can only have support groups when someone does the work - as Silver did in her case. The forums provide a virtual support group and that is why some of us hang around despite not necessarily needing it for ourselves for various reasons because you do need someone who has been there to answer questions. There are often complaints that there are no people on the forums who have recovered - there are but they are a very small minority, not because people don't go into remission but because when they do they don't want to be reminded of the hard years.

To find people you could ask at your GP or rheumy practice if you could put up a poster - the practice can't tell you medical details of other patients but they could either let you put up a poster or give their patients with PMR/GCA a visiting card with contact details, preferably with a separate email address or other non-personal address such as via the practice. Or put an ad in the newspaper/community paper/parish magazine or its equivalent. 

And why view your support group as only personal face-to-face meetings? We're in the 21st century - you could "meet" the others in Canada for coffee and cake using Facetime or Skype or another video-conferencing facility. I live in Italy - nowhere near any other English-speaking patient. I have had a glass of wine with my girls using Skype, and have meetings with lodger using Skype.

Busymom mentions her therapists know nothing of PMR - you have to start an education programme because they should know. That's the basis several of us work on - education for patients so they can, in turn, educate their healthcare professionals. And busymom - I'll lay odds, a lot of those fibro patients probably DON'T have fibro but PMR!

I find swimming helps and I dont mean lengths in the pool. A physiotherapist gave me me a list of exercises to do in the pool. They are stretching mostly and involve most parts of your body. There is about 20 minutes of treading water that helps with my weight gain as I swim every day. Im about 50 miles east of Toronto age 58 gone from 20 mg to 2.5 and am currently experiencing very large amounts of pain. No doubt from the quick reduction o 10 months. Doctors keep telling me its Fibromyalgia but I have been on that site and dont feel I match. Family was great at first but as months go by I feel they dont get it and i get mad then forgive because they dont have it so how could they understand. I guess its the one thing we all have is large amounts of empathy for each other as we do all know the pain fear dissapointment anger frustsation depression and so on that goes with this disease. So I push on. Jo

I have snet busymom a pm and hoping she replies. 

Eileen

"There are often complaints that there are no people on the forums who have recovered - there are - but they are a very small minority, not because people don't go into remission but because when they do they don't want to be reminded of the hard years."

How true and yes I know quite a few who do not want to remember.  About 5 or 6 who joined our support group, left when they went into remission.   Four others stayed and come to every meeting on the grounds they got help and want to help others and give them hope.

There are days, (5 years of remission coming up on 31 December)  when I think I don't want to be reminded,

 I then remember how hard it was for me so how can I walk away.   Like you and some others (whom I won't name)  who still  post on this forum, we just can't do it. 

Hydrotherapy would be such a blessing for any PMR patient but the chances of getting it in the UK is negligible and getting to pools isn't that easy either. 

Now - if I remember rightly, isn't maid marianne in the Toronto area?

Yes maid marianne is in the Toronto area.

A simple PM sent on this site together with you email and location and permission for forward your email address, means we can put you in contact.

As Eileen has mentioned Skype is a good way of supporting. I have used it to support friends and we have enjoyed a cup of coffee or even a glass of wine together. I think it can also be a great way of sharing a meal especially for an older person on their own who may feel less inclined to eat and where company can help stimulate the appetite. Skype can, of course, be a bit unreliable with the connection but it is worth considering. Eileen has given good advice re finding others.

Eileen I think I've co-opted busymom's thread long enough, I'm private messaging you.

I'm in that group.  Canada is a big country and I am geographically challenged because of my location.  Have more in common with the UK (all my cousins live in Scotand and England) than with the RoC (rest of Canada)!

I will ask my GP for advice.  

Yes I think he has good support - I see him and his wife quite a bit because their daughter (my son's significant other) often invites us all for dinner and various celebrations.  I think it is the usual thing, men need looking after but women just soldier on.  I sometimes want to just spew out how I feel, but I am so reticent for many reasons, not least of which is it is hardly fair to the other person/people and besides I don't even have anything fatal.  It's "nothing" in the big scheme of things, so why should I make a fuss?  I do have a few friends, don't see them often enough, but we discuss our various aches and pains as we are all ageing rapidly, although some of us dominate the conversation more than others....

It sounds as though you need to find someone/ somewhere to offload as it is not good to bottle everything up and just soldier on. I don't think it's about making a fuss but getting the recognition we need that we are not as able as we would like to be and therefore have to pace ourselves. I think as I and others have said we look well and everyone then thinks we are fine. We are fortunate in that we have steroids to help but that in itself leads us to do more and we then end up suffering the consequences. I hope you find or can start a suitable outlet. 

Thank you Lodger.  You/Eileen have helped me soooo much over the last year.  Before I only had a very understanding Doctor (thank goodness) and a rheumy who thinks PMR disappears after 2 years and Pred is evil.  Without you and our other 'experts' I was lost.

I/we would hate to lose you.

Constance💐

You seem to know a lot about this. If I don't take Pred. Will I get CMR?

I did set up a discussion board for Canada using free software from bravenet, which anyone can take over if they want or I can help them with it. You only pay if you don't want the ads. Currently anyone can log in but it can be made more secure if people wanted. 

You are so right. 😊

I have learned so much. I am going back on Pred but this time I will go on a special diet and exercise plan.

Thank you. I have learned a lot from everyone

" If I don't take Pred. Will I get CMR?" - I'm sorry, i don't understand what you mean. 

I gather though you've decided to try pred again so maybe the question is out-of-date.

Hi Jo,

my doctor rushed me off pred from 20 to zero in less than 11 months. About 3 weeks later My aches came back but luckily I discovered this forum (and learned that my doctor knew very little about PMR). Eileen and Mrs O helped me restart my pred - it took 10 mgs to get the pain under control - and its 22 months later and I am only down to 4 mgs. 

Based on my experience I would suggest to you that you immediately increase your pred before you have a bad flare and have to really increase it.  I want to be off this drug as much as you all do, but I won't rush it again because it's healthier to be at 4 mgs for a longer time than to have to go back to a much higher dose cuz of a flare. 

I would add to your post to say that my friends and acquaintances have also pulled away during this long journey. At first there was some sympathy but now  their lives and activities seem to have moved on without me.....and the fatigue I suffer from doesn't help me with being able to socialize and participate in activities. 

I think it is fair to say that you learn who your real friends are when you have any chronic illness. In the meantime you make other friends - even if they are virtual ones. I have met many of my virtual firends "in real" - and it was like meeting my best friend from school, only better.

I must be so lucky, my friends have been absolutely fantastic and look after me in all sorts of ways. Cooking meals, giving me lifts, doing shopping for me, taking out the bins, bringing round vegetables from their allotments and even bringing round bunches of flowers to cheer me up. In fact I am incredibly spoilt. My socialising has reduced a lot as I am just not able to do all the things I used to be able to do, so I have had to give up a lot of my activities. People drop in and ask for advice or phone me about my past groups. Not that they get any sense out of me! In fact friends also just drop in for a chat. I am currently organising a fitness session for young people. We have an outdoor gym on the village green in our village. I have found someone to run it, sponsors and people to help advertise it. I can just co-ordinate everything on the phone or email, so do not have to overdo things myself and it is fun. 

I'm not going to say you are lucky because you have obviously worked hard to get it - so it is very well done!

Have you lived in the same place for a long time? Since I went to university I've never lived anywhere for more than 10 years max, usually less. My best friends are still the ones I made when my children were small and we were all on the same boat - ex-pats with no local family and small children. Strangely, as long as our children were still attached to home we remained close friends but it has drifted since they left home and have partners of their own. Of course it isn't helped by us being in 3 different countries!  But moving to a new place without something to get a contact is very difficult - waiting outside school with small children is a very easy one! But being the odd one out of such a group can be difficult, racism has nothing to do with skin colour believe me.

I have actually had thirty two permanent addresses since leaving school. I have lived in Belgium for ten years and looked after forty countries IT for eighteen years so travelled a lot. I read once that Samuel Pepys tried to talk to a new person every day, so I tried to emulate him. Sometimes it can be really fascinating. I am not sure if I should count telephone nuisance calls or not in my new people, the trouble is it can be difficult to find new people every day and virtually impossible when PMR was bad. People probably think there's that mad woman again.

Wow, and I thought 17 moves since marriage was a lot!!

What a nice thought "try to talk to a new person every day".  We do, in a way, on this forum and it certainly keeps me sane (I was so alone with my illness till I found this forum)!  You don't have to SEE people, just knowing there is someone there who is interested helps.

Oh yes - I aim to either speak to someone new or at the very least make someone smile every day. Always easy when on holiday I find and it used to be really easy when I was skiing - had many a fascinating conversation on a lift! The forums help with that aim I suppose but it is so nice living here where you are greeted by all locals once they are old enough to speak. Tourists - not so much  , yes, they probably think I'm nuts as I smile good morning to them!

Though I must say that very occasionally I do miss having someone (other than OH) to have a good blether with - it's partly because all the people I have met here who I enjoy talking to still work and simply haven't time - work all day and then home to the family at night. My German is very good - but you never speak a language as well as your native tongue and some things don't translate into a different culture - as I'm sure you know.

Eileen, when you were in Germany and went for a walk did you find everyone you met said "Good morning/day?".  They do here in the Sauerland.  I can't remember that happening in England.

Do you ever speak Italian, or is it always German?

No - they said Gruess Gott because we lived in Bavaria! Just like here - it's the go-to greeting because it fits all times of day. Some people say Guten Morgen/Nachmittag but it seems to depend what mood they are in because they vary! But yes - everyone acknowledges you even if it is just a head nod and a grunt that sounds like 'Gott' or ''morgen..." I even see small children being told to say something to everyone they meet.

I don't need to speak Italian much so it is actually difficult to practise - less than 5% of people in the valley are registered as native Italian speakers and most of them are in Bruneck itself, fewer in the villages, and most speak some German. It's a different matter down in Bozen/Bolzano - which is where the fascists brought southern Italian workers to work in the factories and they stayed since it is so much more prosperous here.

Ooops - forgot to say - no, that was when people in the UK looked at me as if I came from outer space when I greeted them. It was even worse if I just smiled brightly - obviously thought I belonged in the local mental hospital...

Hee Hee!  And all our friends and acquaintances say how friendly and helpful the people are when they visit England!?!

There are a lot of people I have never actually met apart from in cyber space. Sometimes when we do finally meet up it is quite strange as you imagine them totally differently, but you know them so well. I managed to talk to six new people today, that is if you count the white van man who had parked next to me in the car park and had just bought an enormous portion of fish and chips. I have decided I just like talking. 

I think living in a village makes it more normal to greet people. People normally say hello if passing. I think I am very lucky living in a very vibrant community, a bit like the Archers where there is always something in the air. With us it is currently someone who wants to start a chicken farm and some people, including my cleaner, are up in arms over it. I think she is going to have a breakdown over it. She is with Talk Talk too so she really will be in a bad way when I next see her.

Ah well - I'd not be too enthusiastic about a chicken farm either! There was one for a while on the valley floor below the house I grew up in - ewwwhhhh! Though they should be a bit better these days - not sure I want one around.

Ah, but we know which side our bread is buttered on

Organic and great manure and lovely fresh eggs.

In quantity theycan be rather pongy though - you have to admit that!

Not to mention the rats!

One conversation I had with a stranger on a coach that my sister and I were travelling on from London to Durham I will never forget.  It was "by thooos twoos have enjoyed thieselves" (spelling).  (We hadn't seen each other for six months!!!). I expect you will understand.  

We're not too far from a chicken farm. Thankfully,far enough. Driving past when the wind is blowing in the right or wrong direction is not pleasant and that is putting it mildly!! I can't blame the people who are up in arms. 

OK pongy, but rats are not a problem, couple of cats needed.

In fact what they are up in arms about are the foxes that will be attracted.