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LPR/Silent Reflux - desperately in need of a miracle. Has anyone recovered from this?

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Anxious_Alex
Anxious_Alex

Hi - I'll be as brief as possible. For almost a year I have had symptoms which have worsened, starting with throat clearing and progressing to regular spiting out of white, frothy stuff, post nasal drip, lump in throat or sharp sensation, streaming or blocked nose and hoarseness. These are all unpleasant and irritating but because I talk for a living my work is becoming badly affected so it is now making me depressed and anxious as well. I was referred to ENT, had the camera up the nose and down the throat to rule out anything sinister and was given Omeprazole and Gaviscon Advance. No advice, no explanation. I had to find it all out myself. (and I'm not confident/assertive with docs, either).

The drugs haven't helped, I'd go so far as to say the reflux significantly worsened. I had faith in the Gaviscon Advance having read how it works but that hasn't made any difference either. I have monitored everything I eat and drink and can't find anything that triggers it with the possible exception of bread, and I may be grasping at straws there. Certainly coffee, alcohol, spicy food etc don't trigger it and ginger, acidophillus, apple cider vinegar don't help. It does seem to be cyclical - I'll have a week or so of decreased symptoms then it gradally works up again to two or 3 weeks of hell. No heartburn, and the reflux is almost always upright, no problems sleeping...just the other 17 hours a day! The ENT was brusque on my return visit and said that, aside from speech therapy, there was nothing more he could do for me. This can't go on, though. At it's worst it makes me tearful and desperate at work and speech therapy isn't going to stop me spitting up into a whole toilet roll each day, or reduce the other symptoms. I'm also worried my teeth will rot and I fear for my job. Has anyone experienced this with the same pattern/lack of triggers etc? I would love to hear any positive experiences that don't just repeat the same old same old, ie, raise the bed 6 inches, dos and donts with food etc.

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  • andrew_d
    andrew_d Anxious_Alex

    Posted

    Hi everyone,

    Like many many others here, I'm relieved to have found this thread! 

    A little about me... I'm male, 28 and suffered with LPR since I was a teenager. I genuinely don't even remember not having it. I've put with it (and still do) as just something that happens to me. When I was about 15, if ever I had a cold, I remember hoping that this was the cold that was going to break this constant clearing of my throat. This combined with the fact that I was talking the wrong way. I've no idea how to describe this medically, but I was using my pre-voice-breaking pitch, never knowing that my voice had broken and I don't know, maybe this contributed. Anyway, when I was in that stage, I would entirely lose my voice. Major embarrassment was commonplace whilst at my part time job and at school. Anyway, when I finally learnt to use my broken voice pitch, things were obviously better and I sounded normal. 

    But I still suffered with the throat clearing in the morning. I can still set my watch to when it's going to happen, it's absolutely like clockwork. Between 2 and 3 hours of waking up (depending how much I'm talking during that time) 'the main event' happens. The lump in my throat appears that very rarely (a few times a year) I'll be able to physically cough up and it is sticky and globular and it's no wonder it impedes my speaking with that stuck to my vocal cords. If I have water to hand, it can be over in 10-15 minutes and I'm pretty much fine for the rest of the day, with just the occasional cough and throat clearing which isn't a hassle. It's just the one which happens after 2-3 hours of waking that's the monster. 

    After reading all the replies here and online generally, I tried bicarbonate of soda in water in the morning. The first time I did this...oh...my...God. I felt like a miracle had been bestowed upon me. My throat felt dry, I didn't even know it could feel dry! It was wonderful and the 'main event' throat clearing was minimal and easy to overcome, no excessive throat clearing, no embarrassing moments, no voicelessness that wasn't easily fixed. I don't want to do this every day because of the salt content. From what I read, it's basically salt? But saying that, with the amount of water I drink, I probably need it. Anyway, the alkaline water... I bought a jug last week and I'm trialling when to drink it, drinking it too much, too little, blah blah blah, we're all bored of talking about it, even though it's hopeful pessimism that keeps us here. I bought a digital pH meter and my tap water is 7.8, pretty good right? (I live in South Wales, good water, poor social life lol) Tested the water from the jug after filtering...9.8!!!!!!!!

    I tried it the other morning, without eating. It's a bit early to say conclusively, but my throat felt drier and the 'main event' (sorry, I'm at a loss of what to call it!) quicker to disappear and easier to speak through. I'm very lucky that this only happens to me once a day (and to a lesser extent through the day but nothing more than an average throat-clearer tbh).

    I also tried Lansoprazole recently for 30 days, I forget what dosage. Suffice to say they did very little for me and in fact, I felt that during the 10-15 minute throat clearing after waking was more pronounced, but perhaps that was psychological. 

    I feel massively encouraged by the effectiveness of the bicarbonate of soda in water, leading me to believe that the pepsin is my problem. The alkalinity soothes me hugely. Playing with the times and quanitity of water and stuff is my next move. I think a week without breakfast and only alkaline water in the morning will help. After the throat clearing I go back to normal water just in case of all the worries of digestion and whatever else. I feel in a bit of a rush to resolve this as I'll be teaching in a couple of months and the last thing I want is an embarrassing daily occurrence of not being able to speak.

    Sorry this is so long, it's an exhausting topic that's so anecdotal.

    • susan79492
      susan79492 andrew_d

      Posted

      Andrew,

      Do you drink the bicarbonate & water or just gargle with it?

      susan

    • andrew_d
      andrew_d susan79492

      Posted

      Susan,

      I drank it. I'd put a teaspoon/heaped teaspoon into a standard glass of water.

      Andrew

    • thomas83
      thomas83 andrew_d

      Posted

      Let's analyze this a bit. If one assumes that alkaline water will destroy the activity of pepsin, where is that pepsin? If we assume that it has been refluxed and is in your throat, then flushing it with alkaline water should be done after the pepsin has arrived and attached. Since reflux occurs most often during the day in people with LPR it seems logical to sip alkaline water throughout the day. By the way, if you put a heaping tablespoon of baking soda in a glass of water it will be undrinkable, unless you like to suffer. Note that my remarks do not constitute an approval or condemnation of the whole theory of pepsin treatment with alkaline water. There is research going on by reputable scientists to get answers on this topic. Good health to you.

       

    • andrew_d
      andrew_d thomas83

      Posted

      I'm not trying to contribute to scientific research, just saying what effect it had for me. And I said teaspoon, not tablespoon.
    • susan79492
      susan79492 andrew_d

      Posted

      I do a combo of what you two are saying.  If I feel any sign of reflux I will drink a bit of bicarb water--about a teaspoon in a glass.  Then I'll just sip alkaline water throughout the day.  I take 5 mg of melatonin at night also and avoid the biggies:  tomato sauces, etc.  After suffering for about a year and a half or so my symptoms are very much under control and almost negligible.  I suppose it hardly ever totally goes away.
    • Rob-747
      Rob-747 susan79492

      Posted

      Susan said: 'Do you drink the bicarbonate & water or just gargle with it?'.

      -----------------------

      Hi Susan,

      I'm cautious about drinking bicarb and instead tend to sip high ph water (away from mealtimes) and I also gargle with it and spray it on my throat. 

      The sodium content in bicarb can raise blood pressure, so caution is suggested by GPs for people prone to HBP.

      Secondly bicarb can deplete certain minerals etc (see below) and isn't recommended to take long-term. Lastly, you're average brand of bicrab contains aluminium, which is best avoided for brain health reasons etc. When I dabbled with bicarb a few years ago I therefore bought 'Bob's red mill' bicarbonate of soda, which is alum free and very good quality.

      Hope this helps,

      Rob

      Blurb....

      "While baking soda is an effective health treatment, it should also be noted that the substance can deplete the body of essential vitamins and minerals, particularly B vitamins, folic acid and chromium. Baking soda is best used for short periods of time in conjunction with other nutritional supports to prevent nutritional imbalances".

    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 Rob-747

      Posted

      Have been using baking soda for about a week now. It works quickly, you do not need to use much. It is far better than ppis etc which deplete the system from minerals and vitamins far more and do far more damage and it is a darn sight better than all of the horrible side effects they gave me where I could hardly function. All food grade bicarb is aluminium free so whichever brand you buy for cooking is fine. I take vitamin and mineral supplements so thats that part sorted in one swallow. Nothing is perfect but it is the bst of the options for me.
  • petekd67
    petekd67 Anxious_Alex

    Posted

    Hi Andrew

    Your symptoms sound so very very similar to mine ..Like you mines like clockwork I get up and about 1 to 2 hours after I’m up I start coughing (tickle feeling) and aggressive throat clearing which can last from 15 minutes to half hour. Then it seems to settle down with the odd intermittent one occasionally during the day. Then in the afternoon about 2:30 to 4pm I get the feeling my throats dry and a little bit sore as if a sore throat is coming on but it never does and settles later. I also get a lump in the throat feeling from time to time.

    All this is constantly on my mind and a worry. I have to go to an ENT this Thursday and am worried. I have tried like you lansoprazole but it doesn’t work and also I take a gaviscon advance tablet at night before bed again this does not affect the morning ritual. I have been using alkaline water but not noticed much difference. I did have a pepsin test done which did show hi pepsin levels in my results. I have never had LPR confirmed yet so I’m hoping this is the case as the similarities are close.

    One thing my GP said is it could be coursed by hitias hernia as my symptoms started 16 months ago after a severe chest infection which I have never strained so much to couch it felt I was tearing my inside out. It all started from then to my knowledge. Finally I also get gurgling/bubbling in the top of my stomach below the rib cage all the time after or during eating.. Andrew I would like to speak to you over the phone for some more info if you PM me I will send you my email and phone number to talk further if possible

    Best Wishes Pete

  • sarah13796
    sarah13796 Anxious_Alex

    Posted

    Hi Susan and Carmel, have you ever considered an overgrowth of Candida albicans 

    could be causing all your symptoms ? I went on Erica Whites anti candida diet a few years ago and I felt so healthy on it, it's worth looking into, Sarah13796

    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 sarah13796

      Posted

      Hi Anxious Alex. How are you? Was re reading some of your earlier posts today, hope you are feeling better now than you were then. Yes I did consider candida. I cut down on carbohydrates, sugar and increased biotics etc. I
  • Rob-747
    Rob-747 Anxious_Alex

    Posted

    Susan said: 'Do you drink the bicarbonate & water or just gargle with it?'.

    Hi Susan,

    I'm cautious about drinking bicarb and instead tend to sip high ph water (away from mealtimes) and I also gargle with it and spray it on my throat. 

    The sodium content in bicarb can raise blood pressure, so caution is suggested by GPs for people prone to HBP.

    Secondly bicarb can deplete certain minerals etc (see below) and isn't recommended to take long-term. Lastly, you're average brand of bicrab contains aluminium, which is best avoided for brain health reasons etc. When I dabbled with bicarb a few years ago I therefore bought 'Bob's red mill' bicarbonate of soda, which is alum free and very good quality.

    Hope this helps,

    Rob

    Blurb....

    "While baking soda is an effective health treatment, it should also be noted that the substance can deplete the body of essential vitamins and minerals, particularly B vitamins, folic acid and chromium. Baking soda is best used for short periods of time in conjunction with other nutritional supports to prevent nutritional imbalances".

     

  • phil16820
    phil16820 Anxious_Alex

    Posted

    Yes there is a very effective treatment, and it's the only effective treatment. First forget about all the drugs, PPI's etc. Simply lose weight and get in shape! That's it.  Here is an effective strategy. Eat nothing but one average bowl of mushroom soup and walk at least one mile every day for 30 days. Your symptoms will go away in one or two days. In about 30 days you can start eating small meals of anyhing you want but keep your carbohydrate count.under 60 grams per day until you reach your correct weight. Ater that you should be able to eat anything you like; just be sure to keep your weight down. Your symptoms wont come back unless you put on significant weight.
    • Purdie01
      Purdie01 phil16820

      Posted

      I see where you are coming from and this may have worked for you but it's not as simple as that for everyone.  I have suffered for well over 2 years with LPR type symptoms and no great improvement.  Despite trying to keep in shape it's very difficult when I had to give up the things i loved due to inability to breathe - I was a very fit person when I came down with this undiagnosed disease after a sinus viral infection and was not much overweight and regularly went hill walking but found I could no longer do any exercise as it caused my throat to constrict and tighten up and go into spasms which resulted in me ending up in A&E a couple of times so exercise was the first thing to go.  Also for a while eating was the only thing that helped the globus sensation so I put on a good bit of weight in the first year or so until I researched what I could have and discovered things that may help.  2 years in and with the aid of a high alkaline diet I am back to short walks and doing exercise such as pilates and aquafit and yes exercise does help if the throat spasms aren't being problematic but if they are then it just makes things worse.  I am now back to the correct weight for my height but my symptoms continue despite exercise and healthy diet and unless a miracle cure is found I will never be able to go back to my serious hill walking hobby.  I personally have found cutting out dairy and reducing wheat has made a significant difference along with taking probiotics and muscle relaxants when the spasms are at their worst.
    • john77945
      john77945 phil16820

      Posted

      i have these issues. I am fit and run often. lift weights and do yoga. meditate and eat well. this isnt good advice.
    • phil16820
      phil16820 john77945

      Posted

      I can tell you that this advice works perfectly for me and many others I have read on these forums. Any doctor will tell you that the first and most effective step in the treastmrnt of LPR is to get one's weight under control. Eating only bland mushroom soup is a far more effective and safe way to limit stomach acid and therefore LPR symptoms than any drug or antacid. If you haven't tried it how can you say it's bad advice.

      One can run and lift weights and still be overweight. Also I do NOT recommend weight lifting which could also be a source of your problem as it can aggravate your hietal hernia, a primary cause of LPR. Also I would like to know your symptoms and how you know your problem is actually LPR.

    • Purdie01
      Purdie01 phil16820

      Posted

      It's not bad advice, but everyone is different and you stated it is the only effective treatment which is not the case as many of us are within the correct weight range, eat healthily and do exercise but still have persistent LPR type symptoms.  If you had said this worked for you then fine, but you made the assumption that it was the only effective method and it clearly isn't for a lot of people.  Also living on only mushroom soup is not an option for most we need a healthy balanced diet to ensure we get all necessary vitamins and minerals especially if other health problems exist in my case vit d, b and magnesium/calcium deficiency so leafy greens and protein are also required for my health and I couldn't sustain a diet of just mushroom soup when I am already within the healthy bmi range for weight.

      I personally have not been diagnosed with LPR and Dr at hospital didn't even know what LPR was but I have all the symptoms and all tests to date including endoscopy have not produced anything worrying yet following the Dr Koufman diet for LPR has significantly improved by symptoms although it has taken a year of being on the diet to notice improvements. 

    • phil16820
      phil16820 Purdie01

      Posted

      My remarks on weight loss were obviously directed toward LPR sufferers who are overweight. A soup only diet is only meant for a short period of time to get symptoms under control. It's not meant as a long term healthy life style. Don't confuse the two.  I have had enormous success in treating what were initially extremely acute LPR symptoms, and I wrote here because so many people seem to be unsuccessful, desperate and misguidedly looking for magic formulas without weight loss.

      If you are not overweight, actually have LPR and are experiencing symptoms, you may have other LPR related issues. I will tell you that I have employed the following treatment technique with great success. It is based on a  careful understanding of the causes of LPR symptoms.  The symptoms of LPR are caused by a combination of factors. These factors include a weakened upper esophageal sphincter, hiatal hernia, overweight,  a nervous stomach prone to to acid reflux and finally excess stomach acid.

      Although one can do nothing about a weakened upper esophageal sphincter the other causes of LPR are sufficiently treatable to eliminate virtually all LPR symptoms. Given that overweight is not an issue, I have employed the following technique to great effect.in treating symptoms of LPR.

      1) Fast for 2 to 3 days drinking 6-8 glasses of purified mineral water per day. Maintain the fast for 24 hours after symptoms subside up to a total of 4 days if necessary. During this stomach reset period, rest as much as possible and stop exercising to avoid weakness or other health problems. This will eliminate excess stomach acid. If any symptoms persist after day one, take up to one 20 mg PPI per day before bedtime. After this stomach reset period start a soup only regimen for 2 to 3 weeks adjusting physical activity to not become weak or otherwise unhealthy. Then begin eating healthy small low carb meals again adjusting activity appropriately to maintain physical stamina. Gradually increase food intake until reaching a normal varied healthy diet. Gradually eliminate the use of PPI's.

      2) Calm down; don't stress about anything especially LPR. Practice calming bio feedback techniques to eliminate acid reflux episodes. Although LPR is sometimes termed "silent GERD" because of a lack of persistent pain, a refluxing stomach can get acid to the throat and generate occasional short spikes of throat irritation and pain and therefore LPR symptoms.. One must eliminate these reflux attacks.

      3) Use visceral manipulation techniques to reduce the effects of hiatal hernia. Hiatal hernia happens when the stomach starts to migrate into the diaphram and is a primary cause of LPR. Symptoms include a bloated feeling under the breast bone, shortness of breath and light headedness. If unfamiliar with visceral manipulation techniques just Google it.

    • phil16820
      phil16820 Purdie01

      Posted

      Interesting I'm a hill walker too.A sinus infection has nothing whatsoever to do with LPR. In fact your symptoms don't even sound like LPR to me.. Are you experiencing any sinus pain or post nasal drip?  I suggest you see a good otolaryngoloist asap especially if your problems started after a sinus issue. 
    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 phil16820

      Posted

      Sorry Phil but you seem to make sweeping statements where you see everything in black and white. I had a lot of so calledl sinus infections and then when two and two was put together it was clear it was caused by acid reflux and this is why it kept happening over and over again, and it is the same for a lot of people. And post natal drip is often actually acid reflux. MOST of the very good naturopaths and doctors say so on their websites.
    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 phil16820

      Posted

      Sorry Phil but you seem to make sweeping statements where you see everything in black and white. I had a lot of so calledl sinus infections and then when two and two was put together it was clear it was caused by acid reflux and this is why it kept happening over and over again, and it is the same for a lot of people. And post natal drip is often actually acid reflux. MOST of the very good naturopaths and doctors say so on their websites.
    • phil16820
      phil16820 carmel83758

      Posted

      I have had life long problems with acute sinusitis which I treated very successfully with my own invention of pressurized massive nasal irrigation. I have put literally thousand of gallons of saline solution through my sinuses over the years. I am extremely familiar with post nasal drip caused by sinus infection and irritation. 

      About six years ago I began to get symptoms that seemed like post nasal drip so i again engaged in a program of irrigation that should easily have corrected the problem. When I realized that my sinuses where fine but I still had a wad of mucus in my throat I began to do research and discovered LPR which turned out to be my problem. Some doctors talk about the confusion on the diagnosis of symptoms. However be assured LPR does NOT cause sinusitis even though the symptoms seem similar at first.

      If you have post nasal drip it is sinus related not LPR related. If your throat closes up when you exercise that also sounds like a sinus problem (perhaps allergies) not an LPR problem. A typical symptom of LPR when exercising is asthma. Your throat however should actually dry up and open up.

      If you are experiencing post nasal drip I strongly recommend that you see a good otolaryngologist.

      It is possible of course that you have both problems, but based on what you have related here I would bet on rhinosinusitis.

    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 phil16820

      Posted

      A lot of people get nasal drip and ear infections and/or headaches because of silent acid reflux and my doctor agrees this is the case with me. This explains why, when I take acid blocker medication, pp2s?, it all stops. Unfortunately

      the side effects from the medicine are often worse which is why I try not to use them.

    • phil16820
      phil16820 carmel83758

      Posted

      I completely agree that acid blockers and PPI's are a very bad idea in the long run.

      BTW is this the same doctor you mentioned that said he didn't even now what silent reflux disease is?

    • phil16820
      phil16820 carmel83758

      Posted

      If you had a sinus infection or nasal irritation serious enough to cause post nasal drip, or you have an ear infection, all the acid blockers or PPI"s in the world would make no difference at all to your recovery. If your doctor is telling you diffrently you really need a new doctor.

      Your doctor may see people with post nasal drip, ear infections and/or LPR, but there is no way they are related.There is no way to draw a medical connection. He's just guessing and he is wrong. Unless one is experienced with post nasal drip and LPR symptoms it"s difficult sometimes to tell the difference. I strongly recommend that you treat them as completely separate issues which they certainly are.

    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 phil16820

      Posted

      There are lots of experts who say these things are related. The chinese say that most of the sinus and ear infection problems are caused by gut issues too. The fact that my taking an acid reducing drug totally stopped all of my sinus problems and ear problems is hardly a coincidence and disproves what you said about how pipis do not help with sinus problems. They do help if the problem is caused by acid reflux and they completely sorted it for me. The reason I do not continue with the ppis and acid blockers is because they gave me a lot of bad side effects despite clearing up my ears and headaches and nose problems. I have thoroughly researched what they do in the long run thanks. If it was a good idea to see another doctor I would have realised this and sorted this out ages ago. I actually saw 6 doctors about this. IF you do a lot of research and use common sense you can work out a lot for yourself without any doctor to help you, I am sure they are not separate issues thank you. I appreciate your input but please stop trying to order me to do this or that as if it is your decision and you know far better.
    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 phil16820

      Posted

      You are confusing me with someone else who said their doctor did not know what it was.
    • carmel83758
      carmel83758 Purdie01

      Posted

      Surely nobody should ever live on just soup or any one food as it is would be unhealthy for them even if they had started out fit and healthy. We all need a good balance of vitamins, minerals etc. And for LPR it is also important to have fibre.
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