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MD without hearing loss?

Posted , 7 users are following.

charlie27598
charlie27598

In Jan 2016 I experienced minor episodes of vertigo on a near daily basis, which I believed was remnant of motion sickness during a traumatic sea crossing! I noticed they continued weeks after and seemed to correlate with instances where I was feeling stressed. During this time I moved to the other side of the world and began a new job. I was previously living at 2800 m and spending my weekend’s alternating between the high Andes and the beach (involving lots of air travel). I am now living in the humidity at sea level and wonder if this could have provided sufficient trauma to initiate these attacks. 

After a night of moderate drinking I had my first and only severe episode of vertigo, which left me violently vomiting and unable to walk. After which, I experienced a month or so of very mild vertigo attacks, lasting 4-5 hours at a time. I felt unable to exercise and spent a lot more time at home. Throughout this time I always felt unbalanced and even a drop of alcohol would exaggerate symptoms. 

A hearing test came back fine, to my surprise, and I was treated for vestibular neurosis and given Betaserc for almost 3 months. I had no vertigo whilst on the medication but have had two or three minor episodes since coming off it (during yoga classes, playing football but also when lying in bed). The first specialist was happy the vestibular neurosis had been treated and any imbalance etc. was a product of my body overcompensating or lasting damage. I continued to turn to the extreme right when trying the Unterberg test. Now, my symptoms are fullness in my left ear, which occasionally proves painful and some mild tinnitus. The persistent fullness led my GP to refer me to another specialist, concerned it sounded like MD. Another hearing test and a pressure test both came back fine. I would suggest my hearing is more muffled but could this just be a sensation I notice because of the fullness? I am adamant my hearing suffered immediately after the vertigo attacks (before being treated) because I remember it being relatively distressing. I have been given Vinopocetine to try and hasten recovery of what the specialist believes is just a viral infection and to help with the tinnitus but I have seen no difference. I feel largely like I am not being taken seriously. It is coming up to 6 months now and I am desperate for some resolution or diagnosis that I can work with to try manage these symptoms. I am really active and travel a lot. If I should expect vertigo symptoms to return, I feel I would need to adjust or review my lifestyle as to not take unnecessary risks. Any one else in such situation? Or know anything about altitude and ear issues? Any advice or opinions are very much welcomed. Specifically, I was searching for information on whether it is possible to have MD but without suffering hearing loss? I am only 24 and so had wondered if my hearing could have been affected but remained within the so-called ‘normal’ range?  

 

Sorry for the long text. I would really appreciate any input!

0 likes, 14 replies

14 Replies

  • dave15568
    dave15568 charlie27598

    Posted

    Sorry to hear of your condition and even sorrier to hear that your practioner could not immediately discover the disease Meniere. I have recently been diagnosed with this malady 6 months ago and my doctors couldn't find anything wrong visually and could not determine what was causing the pain and fullness in my head, until I was sent to a specialist. It was determined at that time what it was,  and he admitted they do not yet know what causes it and there is no treatment nor any histories of recovery. I have been trying to discover a common denominator among the afflicted and I found in my instance that sometime prior I had noticed hearing muted voices and also instrumental music seeming to come out of nowhere, at first I thought that I was hearing a neighbors loud talk and or radio, but I live in a brick house and sound does not tavel that well through the walls nor triple window glass. Then I thought that some radio or tv station might have a microwave problem about being out of alignment. I have always had extra ordinary auditory reception and thought I could be like an antenna. This may all sound nutty, but this is the only thing that transpired as so unusual that I thought that might be attribtle. Did you have anything of this nature occur with you?
    • charlie27598
      charlie27598 dave15568

      Posted

      Thanks for sharing! 

      I hope your extra ordinary auditory reception has calmed down! Thats very interesting, but I can't say I have experienced anything similar. 

      Just some tinitus (as if I've been in a loud club too long!)

       

  • donna16710
    donna16710 charlie27598

    Posted

    You can have MD without hearing loss. It seems that it can be very difficult to diagnose exactly what is going on in some cases. Anything that interferes with your eustachian tubes can cause a lot of the same symptoms. You also have to differentiate between problems with the vestibular nerve coming off of the cochlea (he area usually affected in MD). I have begun to believe that a viral illness of some sort may be a cause of MD to begin with hat will take time to work out. Anyone who has vertigo should not take risks but I have found that, over time, things start improving. Avoid loud places, alcohol and dehydration. If balance is an issue something like tai chi may help. The fullness can be helped with decongestants when it gets painful, at least that works for me. You will probably notice air pressure changes as in altitude and weather fronts. I still do, but you adjust. There is the possibility that you could also have a mixed bag of symptoms which make pinning a diagnosis down. Be patient, try not to let the anxiety of not knowing exactly what get you down and do your best to enjoy your life. When it comes down to it, treat the symptoms, adjust where you need to and enjoy what you love.
    • charlie27598
      charlie27598 donna16710

      Posted

      Thanks for your insight. 

      I appreciate a diagnosis may be hard - particulalry for MD. I just feel like many tests are being put off which could potentially lead to an answer just because I haven't suffered any significant hearing loss (so thats good to know it is possible). I live an extremely busy lifestyle and travel a lot for work - and have so far spent a fortune (no free medical care here) and time (almost every other Saturday) at the specialists which hasn't moved past a hearing test and DIY balance tests.

      I understand that I should not take risks and avoid going to loud places, drinking etc. For a 24 year old, living in the city who enjoys climbing, hiking (often alone), traveling for international runs etc. this could cause a relatively significnat lifestyle change. It is certainly the worst thing a doctor can advise 'don't do anything strenuous'. I guess more importantly, my job involves alot of fieldwork, flying, driving.. I hope a diagnosis will give me a better idea what to tell my employeers and if there are any limitations. 

      I practise yoga and pilates which I find really helpful for trying to improve my balance, but so far not Tai chi. 

      Thanks! 

       

  • eleftherio33095
    eleftherio33095 charlie27598

    Posted

    A clarification please. Is the vertigo rotatory (spinning around a center) or linear (movement or sensation in a straight line)?

    Eleftherios S. Papathanasiou, PhD, FEAN

    Clinical Neurophysiologist

    Fellow of the European Academy of Neurology

    • charlie27598
      charlie27598 eleftherio33095

      Posted

      It is rotatory - most definately to begin with. 

      Now, it take form as that initial feeling when you step off a round-a-bout, the split second when you get a sensation of spinning which then almost immediately passes. 

      Thanks for your reply! 

       

    • eleftherio33095
      eleftherio33095 charlie27598

      Posted

      The normal audiogram rules out Meniere's Disease, together with the fact that your episodes are rotatory. You do not have labyrinthitis, as there is no hearing loss.

      Did your doctor check your eye movements?

      Eleftherios S. Papathanasiou, PhD, FEAN

      Clinical Neurophysiologist

      Fellow of the European Academy of Neurology

    • charlie27598
      charlie27598 eleftherio33095

      Posted

      It is not possible to miss hearing loss when it is fluctuating? 

      I believe the normal audiogram is what led to vetsibular neurosis being the diagnosis. Labyrinthitis was therefore ruled out immediately. As far as I am aware, VN should not persist into 5 months (I have had various other medical checks during the course of these months - all which point to exceptional health ie. looking for cause why my body wouldn't have been able to fight off a viral infection).

      I was treated with betaserc for almost 5 months but severe fullness in the ear persists (getting worse). 

      I did have a slightly slow response in my left eye during one check (Feb time) but has not occured since - my eye response was fine. 

      Thanks. 

    • charlie27598
      charlie27598 eleftherio33095

      Posted

      I was just researching to try and find the type of vertigo I have been experiencing. This seemed to best match it: 

      'resembles the sensation of riding in a boat (e.g., in bilateral vestibulopathy)'...

      I feel 'unbalanced' as if I am standing on a boat. I'm not sure that is so distinct for me than the feeling when you first jump off a round-a-bout. 

    • eleftherio33095
      eleftherio33095 charlie27598

      Posted

      You do not mention or do not have apparently been told that you have nystagmus when your eye movements were checked. I am assuming that the doctor checked your eye movements in the absence of focusing, either in the dark or with bright light.

      If all the above is true, then I am not yet convinced that you have vestibular neuritis.

      Eleftherios S. Papathanasiou, PhD, FEAN

      Clinical Neurophysiologist

      Fellow of the European Academy of Neurology

  • terry48784
    terry48784 charlie27598

    Posted

    My understanding of MD is that low frequency hearing loss in one ear is a critical symptom for MD along with tinnitus and aural fullness in one ear and vertigo. At a later time in some people it can move to the other ear. It is not affected by air travel or altitude as the problem is in the inner ear. I have flown twice since being diagnosed with MD and had no adverse effects.I had to equalise as i have always had to as the plane was landing and taking off. Relieving pressure in the outer ear. Hopefully you problem is viral and something to do with your outer ear and change of altitude as these can hopefully be treated and settle down whereas MD is for life. I would keep seeing ear Nose throat specialist until they can sort out what is wrong but without permanent hearing loss you do not have MD. A  friend has vertigo and tinnitus without hearing loss and her specialist has ruled out MD and is trying to sort her problem.    
    • JMJ
      JMJ terry48784

      Posted

      Hi Terry, 

      I think the problem with early diagnosis of MD is that the hearing loss can be so fluctuating.  During my first few cycles of Meniere's, I experienced fullness and complete hearing loss during and directly after the vertigo attacks.  It was like wearing thick earmuffs!  And such pressure!  But soon, my hearing would bounce back to normal, or near normal, so that by the time I had the audiometry done, there would be no measurable change.  But then,  a few months into it, I began the classic MD hearing decline.  Now I have severe low frequency loss in my right ear along with severe fluctuating tinnitus.  

      Sometimes I wonder if the MD process isn't "brewing" prior to the onset of hearing loss, and then something happens that finally allows it to express as hearing loss?  I hope that in my lifetime, I will see the causes of this debilitating disease, understood and treated. 

      Take care,

      J

      Take care

  • JMJ
    JMJ charlie27598

    Posted

    HI Charlie,

    I can't speak to the issue of altitude and MD, but I can relate to your post.  I had vertigo and tinnitus for several years before I was "officially" diagnosed with MD about a year ago.  I would see a GP after the severe episode son vertigo, but he would always say "You could have Meniere's...but you don't have the hearing loss."  Then one day, out of nowhere, I experienced fullness and pressure in my ears and sudden deafness.  It was like I was wearing thick wool ear muffs.  I saw an ENT 2 days later,  who said it was classic MD.  But like you, my hearing was normal when initially tested. In the early days, while I experienced severe hearing loss during and after an episode of vertigo, it would quickly bounce back to normal.  But over time that changed, and my hearing has exhibited the typical decline that's seen with MD.  I now have severe hearing loss in my right ear.  

    My ENT explained that if I could keep the vertigo at bay using the diuretics, meclazine, etc...that the hearing loss would be arrested as well.  We even tried an experimental 30 day trial with antivirals, but it didn't help.  My University ENT specialist explained that Inner ear Inflammation underlies the fluid accumulation in the inner ear, and no one really knows what underlies the inflammation.  So, I continue to treat the symptoms:  diuretics, dexamethazone injections, meclazine, glycopyrrolate or compazine...I Keep fluid and food intake steady.  I went through balance and vestibular retraining.  (When this began, I was going to the gym 6 days a week.  Now, I'm just thankful when I don't stumble around on any given day.  I'm still not safe enough for the gym.)

    The sensation of fullness in the ears is a classic sign of MD.  I truly hope you find a specialist who will take you seriously.  I often wonder if I'd known enough to decrease my salt, caffeine and alcohol intake back when I was simply experiencing the vertigo and tinnitus, if I would have been able to prevent the hearing loss and more severe tinnitus, that I experience now.  But who could possibly know?  (BTW, I also tried Vinpocetin, for several months with no results.  I think it actually makes my tinnitus worse!...It can all feel a bit crazy.)

    Good luck going forward.  I hope you find the right practitioner to help you with your symptoms.

    J-

     

  • melody08508
    melody08508 charlie27598

    Posted

    Hey just wondering how u were getting on? Has the tinnitus settled for u!?
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